Ever wondered how technology can revolutionize a golfer's swing? Or perhaps, you're intrigued by the science behind ground reaction forces? Join us on the Flag Hunter's Golf podcast as we unravel the secrets behind the golf swing. We're thrilled to have Terry Hashimoto, co-founder of BodyTrak with us, who shares insightful experiences of transitioning from a professional golfer to creating a game-changing, pressure mapping technology!
Dive into our thought-provoking conversation as we explore the importance of approaching golf holistically, rather than just focusing on one's swing. By understanding the role of pressure in the swing, we identify how an individual's anatomy, stance width and direction can significantly influence these forces. We also share personal stories about lessons with local pros, potential for injuries in different body types, and even the advantages of using a shorter driver with more loft. Plus, Terry passionately explains the value of having a clear intention for each shot and using data as a roadmap for improvement.
In our enlightening episode, we delve into the world of pressure mapping technology, its origins and how it's revolutionizing the golf industry. We discuss its applications, reveal common pressure patterns and flaws, and even touch on the contentious topic of linear traces. Join us as we talk about Body Trak, the complexities of ground reaction forces, the intersection of sports and technology, and how all this can enhance golf performance. Whether you're a golf enthusiast, an aspiring pro, or just a tech junkie, you'll find our discussions enriching and enlightening!
You can find Terry easiest at www.terryhashimoto.com. You can find Justin and myself easiest on instagram @Elitegolfswing and @flaghuntersgolfpod.
Ever wondered how technology can revolutionize a golfer's swing? Or perhaps, you're intrigued by the science behind ground reaction forces? Join us on the Flag Hunter's Golf podcast as we unravel the secrets behind the golf swing. We're thrilled to have Terry Hashimoto, co-founder of BodyTrak with us, who shares insightful experiences of transitioning from a professional golfer to creating a game-changing, pressure mapping technology!
Dive into our thought-provoking conversation as we explore the importance of approaching golf holistically, rather than just focusing on one's swing. By understanding the role of pressure in the swing, we identify how an individual's anatomy, stance width and direction can significantly influence these forces. We also share personal stories about lessons with local pros, potential for injuries in different body types, and even the advantages of using a shorter driver with more loft. Plus, Terry passionately explains the value of having a clear intention for each shot and using data as a roadmap for improvement.
In our enlightening episode, we delve into the world of pressure mapping technology, its origins and how it's revolutionizing the golf industry. We discuss its applications, reveal common pressure patterns and flaws, and even touch on the contentious topic of linear traces. Join us as we talk about Body Trak, the complexities of ground reaction forces, the intersection of sports and technology, and how all this can enhance golf performance. Whether you're a golf enthusiast, an aspiring pro, or just a tech junkie, you'll find our discussions enriching and enlightening!
You can find Terry easiest at www.terryhashimoto.com. You can find Justin and myself easiest on instagram @Elitegolfswing and @flaghuntersgolfpod.
Hello and welcome again to another edition of the Flag Hunter's Golf podcast. My name is Jesse Pyraman. I am your host. The host with some good, pertinent game and proving, thoughtful information for all of us to contemplate and assimilate and have it translate into better golf, at whatever level you are aspiring to reach. I'm excited I'm launching a new program. You work with me. It's a one-on-one program, it's a pilot program. Right now I'm going to charge very, very, very little to get this thing off the ground. But what it is, work with me, one-on-one. I'm going to help you decipher what's going on with your golf game, help you identify any blind spots and point you in the right direction, perhaps, maybe even link you up with one of the many great coaches that have come on my podcast that I do know personally, depending on what your learning style is and your personality. Give it a try. Hit me up. You can email me at JP5150, vh, at gmail that's the easiest way. You can DM me on Instagram as well, at flaghunterscollpod all one word, and those are both the easiest ways to get a hold of me.
Speaker 1:This week, without further ado, I'm going to introduce Justin Tang. Those who are regular listeners know who Justin is. He is an instructor at the Tanameric Golf Club in Singapore, one of the great young minds in the game that looks at the game holistically. He and I share the same philosophy on improvement and with the game and the current state that it's in, it really doesn't lend itself to looking truly at what is going on with your golf game. I think we a lot of times erroneously go down the wrong rabbit holes because we think that our golf swing is the main driver in the game, that, without our golf swing being on track, on purpose and relatively flawless, that we think that's the primary source of all of our problems, when nothing could be further from the truth. There's been many people that have been lost without thinking and going down that rabbit hole, never to be found again, unfortunately. And it's my aim, it's Justin's aim, it's our aim to help all of you avoid such pitfalls that are for certain if one isn't educated enough to look at his or her game from a holistic sense.
Speaker 1:And the man that we have on is undoubtedly part of that equation. His name is Terry Hashimoto. He's the co-founder of BodyTrack, which is a pressure mapping system. And what's interesting about this thing? So I have been on a BodyTrack before and I found it to be enlightening. And what do I mean by that? I mean that with technology today, there's some ambiguity, there's some things that you have to be taking with a grain of salt, and in this case this really displays what is as far as pressure shifts and what's happening in one's swing action.
Speaker 1:So Terry really goes on passionately to explain this very phenomenon how getting on a pressure sensor can help you identify your ills in your action, and I love what he says. He says where pressure goes, the clubface goes, and I, based on my working with John Erickson and Brad Hughes, where a lot of what we train is how to put pressures in the right places in the right times, and BodyTrack will give you an x-ray into that and to help you to facilitate with a qualified instructor to get you sequenced and to put your pressures in the right places and also to help you identify what you want to do with a golf shot. I think it's very important Terry touches on that in the podcast with what your intention is per shot, per club, and how you can use that data to help clear up any ambiguity in your head, but also as a roadmap where Terry and team can help decipher what you're doing. Well, to keep that data stored, to have a foundation to go back to, and I think that that is a very smart way to use technology. I think that what is without an emotional attachment is a fantastic way to look at something for what it is, black and white, and then apply the information to your game. I think this instrument is fascinating, I think it's purposeful, I think it's very useful and I definitely endorse this level of technology.
Speaker 1:So sorry for the long-winded intro, but without further ado, I will warn you that there's some F-bombs dropped and Terry is passionate about what his findings are, and I like the fact that he questions everything, and what that means is he's looking for a nonbiased, objective truth, and I think that when you're looking at your own golf game, that is where you have to begin. You have to look at yourself objectively, without any emotional attachment to what is. What are you doing out there? What sort of scores are you producing and why? Where are you getting in your own way? Is it technical, is it mental, is it emotional? All of these things need to be looked at as if we're on a drawing board. My pilot program is going to help you do that, but nonetheless, you could definitely do it yourself. You just have to remove any emotional attachments and look at it for what it is and then go from there. Terry helps you do that.
Speaker 1:So once again, I'm going to forewarn everybody for the F-bombs. Terry's passionate, we're passionate about what we're saying on this pod and you know what. Sometimes the current state will elicit such responses in the game from teachers that attack other teachers, which, in my opinion, is it's ridiculous. You should not do that. We're all on this thing together and Terry's been attacked many times and I just think that a lot of that's unfounded, unfortunately, and he explains that. So forgive again, but I'm not going to edit any of them out, because I think that takes away the essence and the message of what Terry is trying to say and what we're trying to accomplish in this conversation. I'm going to be happy to have Terry come back on again to explain further, more depth, and I'm curious to find out what his findings are going to be moving forward. But I'm very proud of this conversation. I was very much all ears.
Speaker 1:Justin does most of the questioning and Terry provides wonderful answers that I think that you should all really contemplate, take a look at and think deeply about. You can reach Terry easiest at Terry Hashimotocom. That's all one word T E R R Y H I S H I M O T? O, I think yeah, I read it correctlycom. You can also find them on the socials as well, and I would encourage you to get a part of the program, if this is something that you're curious about, to learn about Pressure mapping and, more importantly, become intimately aware of where you are putting your pressures, not only out of dress, but try to train yourself to have some good awareness of what's going on in your swing motion. I am 100% certain that that'll definitely help you to find out what is going on, what you're doing and what you can do better and what you can do magnificently in this game.
Speaker 1:Cheers everybody. I hope everyone had a thanks Thanksgiving to remember and once again, keep them in the short grass, hit them straight, listen with intent and I appreciate you all. Cheers, hello and welcome to another edition of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. We have my man, justin Tang, in the house. Justin is an instructor at the Tanimera Golf Club in Singapore, one of the more educated humans that I know, a good friend of mine, and today it is really our honor to introduce a man by the name of Terry Hashimoto. You may know him as the co-founder of BodyTrack, but Terry was responsible for bringing in our understanding of GRF ground reaction forces and how we can use them to our advantage in our own individual golf swings. Terry, thanks for coming. Justin, glad to get you off the range this time, brother, great to be here guys.
Speaker 2:Thank you Jesse, Thanks Terry. So, terry, you are the Godfather of ground reaction forces and golf. Can you share a little bit about how you got into golf?
Speaker 3:Well, how I got into the golf or I got into the ground reaction force business.
Speaker 2:Golf.
Speaker 3:My mom and dad. My dad decided that we should do something as a family and when he was about 40 and my mom was 30 and I was about 10, he said we're going to go golf. And you know what? This is Winnipeg, manitoba, canada, and it's pretty cold. And we started playing golf indoors when nobody was playing golf indoors. This goes back to 1968.
Speaker 3:And that's how I learned how to play golf. I took a liking to it and by the time I was 12, I won my first provincial tournament and later on, by the time I was 18, I had won the national tournament. A second actually finished seventh in the junior Orange Bowl, got a golf scholarship, three offers, duke University, university of Florida, miami. Went down there when I was 17,. Met Bob Toskey, became a. He worked with me and had a great college career and after college I pay a little bit of pro golf. And then I opened up a golf store and called the Caddyshed and Winnipeg Canada's first golf discount store, if you will. So that went on to develop well.
Speaker 3:I ended up buying a golf course down in Florida, didn't like doing that too much and started Jazz Golf, which became Canada's number one golf club company for about 20 years got rid of, sold that in 2005. I got out of it. We took the public in 2000. And when I left I got into the technology business. We built initial measuring units that became Sky Pro. Measured anger, velocity, swing path and speed. Ping put it on their putters all the time. You might remember that what those things were called. And then the invention of body track.
Speaker 2:The founding of body track is a very interesting account. Can you share that with our listeners?
Speaker 3:Sure, I'll talk slowly, so it's, I talk a little quick sometimes, but initially I wanted to make concussion skull caps the initial measuring unit. It allows us to measure time and space. So I wanted to put a sensor into a helmet, attach an IMU to it and then I could do online neurological assessments for concussions. And it turns out that that material, the only material in the world that could do this, existed in my old hometown of Winnipeg. So I couldn't believe it. I went back to Winnipeg, talked to them and they said we had heard and I don't know how they had heard this that you were thinking about building a pressure mapping system for golf. And I really kind of wasn't, because at that point I would kind of wanted to take a break from the golf business. But it was the only material on the planet that you could stretch. You could put it on a step, you could. It didn't need recalibration when you put it on a side hill or a downhill lie. And I said, sure, why not? And they offered me an equity position and I took it and it was unbelievable, the quickness of which we developed the product.
Speaker 3:I met Dr Sasha McKenzie in and around the fall 13 years ago and by the PGA show, which was literally three months, we had a prototype ready and I one of the suppliers of mine that I had used the jazz golf his name was Sam Zoo, one of his friends from China was had a small booth there where there were selling components and they let me use their booth during the show. And Sasha and I launched the world's first portable pressure mapping system at that show and it didn't have a cover, just had the black vinyl covering that we used for prototypes at that point in stage of time and we knew absolutely nothing about it. But Sasha had done the research in the lab in Antigonitional Viscosia at a university called St Francis Xavier, known as St of X. It's a very well known university in Canada and the COP and the lined up perfectly with the AMTI force plates. There was no, no difference. So Sasha thought that we had a viable tool and at which point we decided to go to market.
Speaker 2:So what's the jik-thirm connection?
Speaker 3:So, you have to keep in mind, jason, when we started I had played golf for 11. There was lots of periods I was a very good international golfer on an amateur level. It wasn't so good as a professional, but you got to keep in mind. When I graduated in 1981, the top money winner was $450,000, tom Kite and he probably had $150,000 in expenses and I came from the family of home builders and to my dad that didn't seem like a lot of money, like I mean, it was good money, but it wasn't like you were going to get rich doing it. If I had graduated in today's time and era you can bet your you know your last dollar. I had gone balls to the wall and all you got to do when today is win one tournament and you're kind of, you're in there.
Speaker 3:But going back to Jake, as soon as we had developed the commercial version of the pressure mat, the first thing I did was go on tour and to collect data Because I had good street cred with the coaches Scotty Hamilton, john Tellery two of the top winning coaches in professional golf, and then Jim McClain was a good friend. So I was bouncing around Miami and where I'm from, I went to school university in Miami, so I'm comfortable there going to all the tour events. And I was doing a presentation to a relatively large group of golfers in Chicago, just outside of Chicago, and Jake had heard about that and he had just been at the John Deere with Kevin Strylman and Kevin didn't make the trip to Augusta that year. So, jake, he drove back and he was sitting right in front row almost 13 years ago. He went right to the front and he had been collecting data with Kevin Strylman at the John Deere in the bunker and he was. He was putting his hand up. Hey, I want to. Can I show you something? I want to put your. I want to show you something.
Speaker 3:And we had never really put body track into the bunker and I said, yeah, man, come on up, let's see what you got. He said I'm Jake Thurman. He's a good looking guy. He has best hairdo and golf. My son's a soccer player and Jake looked like just like one of them soccer players, like just the star. You know he was just, he had that image. He just looked fantastic. And I have a wife, so don't get me the wrong way. So but I mean like he. He's a great guy, he just one of those stunning guys walked up there. I took a shine and took him right away and then we showed all the stuff that he had on the he collected in the in the sand trap with Strylman Kevin, and you know it was an abbreviated trace, it was perfect. It was exactly what you'd expect to have in a bunker for a good bunker player. He did the lob shots, he did the full shots and after the seminar, jake and I, he hung around. He didn't want to leave and I was kind of excited too, cause we were just in the process of collecting a lot of tour data. We had at this time developed some of our own theories, but they still weren't validated completely to the point where it was a hundred percent comfortable saying you know these, this is a tenant of pressure mapping. And all of a sudden, next thing, you know, jake and I are going to various tournaments together. Jake was the first guy to take Wattie track to Augusta and we became great friends that were down to visit him.
Speaker 3:I'm from Winnipeg, manitoba, originally, and it's a straight shot down to Chicago, and Winnipeg and Chicago are kind of two similar cities. It's hard to explain, but Manitoba, winnipeg, has a grand exchange and sold to Chicago. So you get a lot of people communing between Chicago and Winnipeg. So I was used to the fast talking, swashing. You know all these great guys from Chicago. I love them and they got their best hot dogs in the world. I'm a hot dog connoisseur. So if you can give me an excuse to go to Chicago, I'd go and I was going there quite a bit for a little while.
Speaker 2:So just for clarification, pre-body track there was no such concept as pressure mapping in God.
Speaker 3:Well Swing Catalyst. This is a really good story and it's short. So Body Track is manufactured by a company called Vista Medical, and Vista Medical was building sensors for acute care, rehabilitation, for spinal cord rehab. They were making them for wheelchair covers, so that wheelchair seats, so that you could measure the pressure on a person that had to sit in the wheelchair and they could adjust by phone so that you would avoid any sores. And then they also made pressure beds for medical uses. Later on they subsequently built a retail bed where you lay on a sensor and there's air bladders underneath it and it automatically adjusts by air so that you get to even sleep. But all they saw ended up was is that the Body Track? That the sensor? I needed, the sensor for the helmets. They didn't want to go down that path. They didn't think I had the credibility, but they knew I had the credibility for golf. So that was the evolution of Body Track, where Body Track became the retail brand of the medical application.
Speaker 2:So you essentially built up the knowledge base of GRF with old school elbow grease, would that be correct? Yeah, I lost my train of thought there.
Speaker 3:So what happened when we were building Body Track? They didn't want to be in the retail business initially, so our goal was to reach out to. There was one other company in the business and it was called Swing Catalyst and nobody knows this. But our goal we wanted to sell the technology to Swing Cat. They didn't have enough cash at the time and they wanted us to buy their software. Swing Catalyst PressureMat is built by a company called Sensors Agile in New Jersey. Not a lot of people know that. Now Swing Cat is 100% software company. They've never manufactured their own PressureMats and that's not uncommon Body Track itself.
Speaker 3:we're a manufacturer of PressureMats but we're not very good at writing software, so they typically don't go hand in hand, like it's pretty rare today where somebody will build both the hardware and software for a product. That doesn't happen too often. I mean, obviously big computer companies do it, but it's pretty rare in the. It's almost doesn't exist in the PressureMapping business. So our Swing Cat was originally our partner, but eventually they had some financial problems and they didn't want. They wanted us to invest in their company. We made them an offer but we couldn't afford to do what they completely wanted to do. They recovered and then they became very good.
Speaker 3:But to tell you the truth, justin, nobody really knew how to use PressureMats. And that's where I stepped in because of my background, my golf background, the guys they knew on tour. And listen, I don't necessarily agree with that 10,000 hour rule. You know where you gotta do something for 10,000 hours before you master it. But I probably put in literally 200,000 hours and we spent, we went at it, jake, and I went at it. I collaborated with everybody.
Speaker 3:Everybody wanted to understand it better and you know, the greatest thing at the time was is that we wanted to know what was right. So we were looking for common denominators and just by happenstance that's something I'm very good at and I was able to determine the common denominators that were out there. And you know, I very quickly identified seven key traces. You know scattered fish up, you know to toe, you know those are the types of things that we were able to identify quickly. And then what we were able to do is identify what was the shot pattern for each one of those traces.
Speaker 3:And then we were able to identify the top three pressure flaws in golf, which are very, very simple Too much pressure in the toes for the average golfer. Number one, number one pressure flaw in golf is too much pressure in the toes during the swing. Second pressure flaw is guys back up prior to impact. And the third one is old guys like me don't get pressure to the lead side quick enough. And those are the top three pressure flaws in golf, and what we learned back then has held the test of time. And let's define the test of time. If your body of knowledge lasts 10 years, or 13 years in our case, it's probably gonna hold up for another 10, 12 years. It's probably.
Speaker 3:In fact, I'm writing a book called the Five Fundamentals of Modern Pressure Mapping. I put that into section one of our Golf Rehab Certification Guideline the fundamentals of pressure mapping and it's just unbelievable how, what we learned, what I was able to identify as key common denominators for pressure mapping. It's all valid, it's all evidence-based research. I gotta define the word research because scientists don't like it when a layman like me uses the word research, observation from a scientific perspective. But listen, if you Google a science, it'll say observation is what it's based on. So as far as I'm concerned, the scientists can go screw themselves. I'm a scientist as far as I'm concerned with respect to golf.
Speaker 3:So I'm talking listen, I don't care what you think.
Speaker 2:No, you're basically Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, man, exactly, look at it. Look at Sashel once told me something. For those of you that don't know this first time I met Sashel what was funny was he got his. He's the first professor in Canada to get his PhD based on a paper he wrote on golf. Now guess what? Guess? He used a tool called Shaft Lab, developed by True Temper, to do his PhD. Guess, who was one of the collaborating partners developing Shaft Lab for True Temper, me we collected all the data for True Temper when I was a shaft manufacturer. So when Sashel made his PhD on lead leg and droop heck man, I created, I helped create that lingo. So it was funny, I said to Sashel. I said you know, I don't know what I'm doing with this pressure mapping system, but let's keep going to the net. I'm gonna make you famous and guess what? I made him famous. But I'm gonna repeat that performance with some other guys that I'm working on this golf rehab project right now. But yeah, we pioneered pressure mapping.
Speaker 3:Unquestionably, swing cat was way behind the curve. I mean, you know, I think you're the type of guy I don't know you well, but I admire what you're doing. And then we've emailed and talked a lot. I'm the type of guy that you know. I don't care about the fame, I just wanna get right. So we share what I was seeing with hundreds, and later on thousands of golf coaches all around the world. I have two sayings that I like the toes that are breaks, the heels are the accelerators, the ankles are the shock absorbers and propulsion system. You see, you hear that everywhere. Now, good on them. I should have you know, but I'm glad they're using it and I always tell people the number one way to gain distance and low point ball control is to get the pressure to the lead side early and have the strength and stability to keep it there. I can say that those two phrases, like you know, drunk stone are indifferent, it just they're realities and some people call that tenants, but they're realities.
Speaker 2:And I myself have just completed the golf rehab certification program and I was blown away by, one, how in depth the program was, and two, how simple the fixers are Unbelievable, and we're gonna unpack this in the later part of the show. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions in relation to your thoughts on a one size fits all coaching approach. So most guys would be like, oh, this pro has won on tour this week. He does this move, let's get all of our kids to do that. So, for example, it could be a left sided swing, could be a right sided swing, could be the center sided swing, center post swing. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:Okay, I don't like positional teaching. I keep in mind my mentor was Bob Toskey and pretty well known instructor in his day. Gonna share a short story. So Bob's down 93, god bless his soul. So after I developed BodyTrack I had Jake and I went down to see him. Him and Sir Nick Faldo and Bob used to tell me to set up 6040 on the trail side. We didn't use the word pressure back then. He was talking weight and his theory was that if the weight's gonna move to the trail side, you might as well put it there and reduce the moving parts. Well, funny enough, when I put Bob under pressure, matt guess what? He set up 6040 on the lead side. It was, which is the modern way, which is the modern approach. So Bob just didn't have the tools to validate what he was trying to express and I don't believe that there's. This story is pertinent to your question.
Speaker 3:So I was doing a seminar with Jim McClain in Miami and a bunch of people were there, all the Salt Florida section. I was a little nervous back then because you know our data was pretty complete but there was still some holes in it. And this guy in front of me pulls up this famous clip of eight major champion winners, their position at the top of the swing. It all looked different. He was trying to say that everybody looks different at the top of the swing, and that's okay.
Speaker 3:So while he was doing his presentation, I by happenstance had five out of the eight pressure traces of those winners. So I was moving around on the computer trying to get them all put onto one screenshot and when I got up there I said that guy's right, the top of the swing is irrelevant from a position position, from a positional perspective. But let me show you their traces. They're all dead linear and they all do something really unique. They all move pressure to the lead side well before the completion of the backswing, later to become known as the pressure transition, and that's something that, to be honest with you, we created. We understood first Every, actually every tenet that's in those clips, every one of them, I'm gonna say this I developed in collaboration with many other leading tour coaches.
Speaker 2:So what you're saying is that, while all the great players are different aesthetically, they do not defy the laws of both light and ground reaction forces.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure the laws of ball flight are accurate and I'll clearly explain that if you wanna ask more about that later.
Speaker 3:But from I must have collected, without embellishment, two or 3,000 tour traces when I die. I'm 65, this thumbnail drive I actually have put in my will for Jake and there are over 2,000 PGA tour traces in here. Now I don't share this with anybody for a reason, because guys gave me their traces in confidence, the ones that I know that have given me permission I do share with. The common denominator in all these traces is that in their irons, everybody that's won a tournament or in a major tournament, they're all dead linear, everyone their drivers. They get a little different on, but we've been able to validate, as you're gonna be able to see in these slides if you wanna take a look at them, that it's quite possible, it's 100% possible, for the longest drivers in the world to use a linear trace. We always thought a lot of people thought that the linear trace was the most accurate trace but not the most powerful, and that's 100% not true.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's back up a little bit, Terry, for the benefit of our listeners who are not familiar with ground reaction forces. Could you explain what a linear trace is? What are we looking at, Sure?
Speaker 3:so when you stand on a pressure mat, it creates. Let me rephrase when you stand on a pressure mat, there's two layers of material separated by a conductor. The harder you press on it, the faster the electricity flows between those two layers. And then what we do is the center of pressure is the average of all the forces created by gravity. When you stand on a pressure mat and when you move your feet right, left, right, left, it forms a line like a, literally a line, because that's the conductivity of electricity. I call it the flow of energy. So the flow of energy moving between your feet. It either can be erratic, like it can be up and down and all around, or it can be straight back and straight through, and the gap between the line going back and the line going through turns out to be dispersion.
Speaker 3:So a trace is the pattern that your flow of energy creates during your swim, and we measure that in velocity, in centimeters per second. You can call it miles per hour if you want. It doesn't really matter because it's all relative data. And then we also measure how hard you press into the ground at key points in time. So when you're taking the club back, at some point the pressure has to move forward. It's like when you throw a ball up in the air, before that ball goes up in the air it has to stop and come down. It stops and then reverses, it comes back down to earth. So when you take the club back, that's pressure moving towards your trail side and then at some point that pressure has to move to the lead side. So that forms a trace and we're able to determine by that trace whether you're gonna have a lot of dispersion or not a lot of dispersion.
Speaker 2:So that's the common denominator that you were talking about. All 12 liners have linear traces the weak of their wind.
Speaker 3:Correct. It also turns out like in and around at the peak of my development in terms of it's a straight line when you're learning and then you start learning slower and slower and you get to a point where the more you know, the less you know. So you're always questioning yourself so that you can continue to grow. When you stop questioning yourself, you're in this arrogant position where you think you know everything. I like to tell people the more I know, the less I know. But that doesn't mean I don't know a lot. It just means that now I'm at the stage where I question everything, everything about what I say, everything about what I do, and I don't throw tenants out there that people can second guess and put holes in, because I don't need the bullshit of the arguing. I only wanna tell people what I see and know and I stay in my lane. I love physiology. I wanna share something with you because it drives me nuts and I recently sold my company Swing Balance. Ai did fairly well and you got to invest your money. When you're my age you don't wanna blow it. So when you talk to brokers who could help you, the first question I was told to ask them from wealthy people is ask them how much money they made and how much money they have in the market and how long it took them, and ask them what their annual return was over the years. What's kind of like that with me. So if I was taking a lesson off somebody for golf, the very first question I'd ask them is how do you start your backswing? Would you get in your car, put it in drive before you started? I don't think so.
Speaker 3:So Hogan wrote a book called the Five Fundamentals of Golf and my day was called the Bible of Golf. He talks about the grip, stand, set up, backswing and downswing the five fundamentals. And in the backswing he said the hands pull the arms, the arms pull the shoulders, the shoulders pull the hips, the hips pull the legs. So hands, arms, shoulders, hips and legs Now I couldn't say it that fast if I didn't study it hard. He said that the downswing was the exact opposite, where the legs initiate the downswing, legs pull the hips, hips pull the shoulders, shoulders pull the arms and hands restrict last. So hands back, legs down. What Hogan did there was the initial. Well, he created the kinematic sequence. He just didn't know it. But Hogan didn't have it right, not because he wasn't smart, but because he didn't have the tools. And I'm not gonna tell you which part of the foot initiates the backswing, but I definitely know, and that's part in section four of the course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of the course, and it's not that I'm trying to be secretive, it's just that I want you to take your time and think about it. But the lead foot always initiates the backswing. It goes lead, trail, lead, and then the pressure always initiates the backswing, always unless you're at a sequence. And if you're at a sequence, then you're always catching up, and that's a problem.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's go a little bit more in depth. Can you talk a little bit about the ground reaction force? Kinetic sequence.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So kinetics, as you know, is a study of forces. Kinesiology is the study of the sequence of the events. I am not I don't specialize in kinesiology, but I do understand kinetics very well. Love of physics. Growing up, I'm an aviator by hobby. I'm a commercially-readed pilot, so aviation requires a reasonable amount of knowledge of physics, especially when you're in trouble with weather and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:And when we were developing initial measuring units, the understanding of physics was very important. For you know, some of the angular velocities and stuff can get very tricky to calculate. You can measure only so much. Angular velocities and swing paths have to be calculated at some point. But where I'm going with this is that ground reaction forces is the study of how hard you're pressing. With respect to golf is how hard do you press into the ground and what are the key times that you do press into the ground. And it's very simple to understand. When the lead arm is parallel to the ground on the way back, that's going to be max vertical pressure on your trail side for a well-struck shot. When the lead arm is parallel to the ground on the way down, you're going to be max vertical pressure on your lead side.
Speaker 3:I was with Dr Peter McKay today and we spent literally 90 minutes discussing it.
Speaker 3:It was kind of I love Peter, where he's one of the reasons that I'm in this business, but he was kind of irritating me because he was trying to tell me that I've got to get on and tell people the difference between weight and pressure and at some point I said, okay, pete, you know no problem, it was easier than argue the rest of the day.
Speaker 3:But the pressure is not weight, because when you stand on a pressure mat we calibrate, we give you a value, one. So you can be 300 pounds or 100 pounds, you can be 50 kilos or 100 kilos, and when you stand on a pressure mat we give you a relative value of one. So when you press hard on the trail side, you may generate 1.5 times your body weight, or you may generate 1.2 or 1.3. But the two average for total vertical forces is about 1.5 during the swing. So we measure forces. But it turns out and this is the answer to your question it turns out that kinetics and kinesiology are related, because if you don't have proper kinetics, your sequence of events is going to be out of sequence.
Speaker 2:So there are three ground reaction forces lateral, rotational, vertical. Do you teach much along those lines?
Speaker 3:You have to because those are the three forces. Now you really can't measure. There's a way. We have figured out a way to calculate torque and I included that when I developed the swing balance shaft fitting system, the swing balance AI shaft fitting system. Working with the on form, I developed an algorithm that we put into the on form app that measures torque and it's succinct. It's unbelievably accurate. But torque to me is dangerous because torque is generated by when you haul you clear prior to impact.
Speaker 3:On your lead side You're not really going to generate too much torque on your trail foot because you want to keep the pressure on the inside of both feet.
Speaker 3:But as soon as the pressure gets outside of the longitudinal arch, either foot, in particular the trail foot on the way back, you're kind of screwed.
Speaker 3:It's very difficult to get it back towards the lead side. If you get on the outside you have the foot has four arches. In the old days we called the ball of the foot and the heel, but in foot language that's called the transverse distal arch, the ball of the foot, and where the ankle joins the foot that's called the transverse proximal arch. And then you've got the inside longitudinal arch, which is straight up and down the inside and then you've got the outside longitudinal arch. They have different names, but I want to leave it simple for you guys, for everybody. When you get outside of that trail foot on that on the outside of that shoot you, it's very difficult to recover, so you always want to have it on the inside. Now there's a little bit of torque there, but not much on the lead foot. Prior to impact, the longest hitters on the world they press hard down into their lead toe and they clear perpendicular to the target.
Speaker 3:This is a run up to the new revelation that we have expressed now here on your show. It's in my section five and this is an absolute. I actually put it right in section one with the linear trace with Nick Flanagan who won the US Samatures cornfury tour player. I think he's won five times but he displays what I consider to be a perfect trace and that's you'll see bull, you'll see everybody that that's winning on tour demonstrate that trace in their irons. They might be a little bit different in their drivers but the longer the longest hitters on the planet clear pressure perpendicular to the target and that generates and that reduces torque, because torque by the very nature of the definition. Torque is typically defined as a twisting action, but the longest hitters on the planet, they don't really torque because they push straight back perpendicular to the target. That's interesting as heck if you really want to get into it from a scientific perspective.
Speaker 2:So do you think in terms of peak force windows for lateral rotational vertical, or you just focus on just pressure?
Speaker 3:No, I absolutely. It's absolutely essential to understand when those peak forces should occur in order to be able to maintain proper sequencing and generate the maximum pressure to the lead side and clear properly the impact. It's undeniable that if the vertical forces increase in you, for you relatively, on a relative basis, you're going to improve your distance gain.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'd like to discuss a couple of influences on pressure. How does one's anatomy affect the pressure, or rather the ground reaction forces that one might be predisposed to? So, for example, you're a tall guy with long arms. You're probably predisposed to a more vertical ground reaction force pattern.
Speaker 3:You know, justin, in all the years I've been doing these types of interviews congratulations, you're the first person that's ever asked me that question. That's 13 years and I want to share with you a very tight and short story. So I was when we got started. I was at Arrows States in Tampa with a guy named Rujiamata doing a. His coach wanted to. You know, he wanted me to teach him the Z-Trace. I didn't want to do that, but Rujiamata wanted to generate more distance and back then they thought that was hard to do it. It's not, by the way. And at the same time there was a friend of mine named Rod Skiddle who won the US Amateur, canadian Amateur twice and he became a pretty good player. Rod Skiddle on the on the Champions Tour, but he's six-five, so I was working with Rod and he wanted me to work with him a little bit, him and his coach and Rod.
Speaker 3:Interestingly enough, the longer the club, the less pressure he was getting to the trail side. He wasn't comfortable because he's so tall, so big. Tall guys typically are scared to move laterally. Why? I can't explain why, but I have a theory. I and you're going to laugh when I say this because it's off the charts. I think these big tall guys, during their careers, during their years growing up, suffered a fall and they're scared to move laterally. You don't see a lot of tall guys except on the basketball court, and they're massive guys moving laterally. Big tall guys don't walk real fast typically.
Speaker 3:Now, that may, that may be not true, so it's very subjective.
Speaker 3:But what I've seen on an objective basis is that the taller the guy, the less pressure they get to the trail side with the longer clubs, and that's an observation based on on all the years of doing research on this.
Speaker 3:Now, what's interesting and I think you guys obviously are both great golfers and you both you know, you know what you're doing in terms of your own performance gains but I fear the golfer that walks onto the golf course, in terms of gambling, with an old golf bag that's really short and stout but it's got the grooves worn out in their irons, you know, and those golfers typically will use more rotational forces because they can't move laterally. So I would, I would, I would suggest to you there is a sort of a premium height that you will see, justin, for the best players, and I'm going to and I'm going to, you know, tell you I think it's between, in imperial standards, between 510 and 6 feet 37 and a half inches fingertip to ground measurement is what we use for the average human being. I'll tell you something if your trail arm is shorter than your lead arm, you're kind of buggered. No, if your trail arm is long, if your, if your trail arm is longer than your lead arm, you've got an advantage.
Speaker 2:I want to ask you?
Speaker 3:why do you think that advantage would occur?
Speaker 2:It's always commonly thought that the if you've got a longer lead arm, you have an advantage, because that's the hand that kind of forms a lever with the club shot.
Speaker 3:So I would debate that, because what I've, what happens is that the trail arm is shorter. If your trail arm is shorter, you have to get into your toes to rotate the club at impact and that becomes the challenge. I've seen this, I've actually. I actually on my father's ashes. He died in 1993. I've never shared this with anybody. I've been thinking about this for a follow up to the first course that we're doing, because physiology will determine the way that you want to post to answer questions specifically.
Speaker 3:You know Andy Plummer was an early adopter. Him and Chris Comal. They both bought pressure mats early on. In fact, chris Comal and he's a nice guy, so he won't mind me saying this he was going to Rice University getting his master's working with Sashel and back. You know, when you're going to school you don't have a lot of coins. So we had to make arrangements to make Chris a deal to get the pressure mat. He paid us over time, but I think at one point we had to lend him a computer to use it because we weren't iOS connected at that time and then. But the reason I brought those guys up is because Andy Plummer never wanted to share his traces with me and I liked him and I liked him. We were kind of we were. He didn't want to share with me and later on I found out why and because a lot of his disciples are really good friends of mine and I like Andy.
Speaker 3:I think Andy had it right, except the name doesn't really tell it, because when you get pressure to the lead side early that's really stacking it. But what Andy didn't want us to know was that all of his golfers do get pressure to the trail side in same proportion to what the best players in the world do. So if you're hitting a wedge, you might get 55, 60 to the trail side. If you're hitting a six iron or a five iron you might get 60, 70 to trail side.
Speaker 3:For a driver, you might get 75 to 90 to the trail side. But they all get pressure to the lead side very early, well before or in and around P3, when the lead arm is proud of the ground on the way back. For those who don't know what P3 is and and you know it's funny I only know really two positions P3 and P5, because I forget all those other positions. So for anyone listening, don't worry about it, because lead arm parallel to the ground on the way back, lead arm parallel to the ground on the way down. Those are two key positions that you want to understand when you're going to push hard on your trail foot and then on your lead side.
Speaker 2:So can you back up again? Let's let's give our listeners something easy to remember at P3 and P5, what should they be focused on?
Speaker 3:Okay. So when you're, if you take the analogy of throwing a golf ball up in the air, and if you can agree with me that it has to stop before it comes down, then we're on the same page. So, along those lines of thought, the the pressure will move one way and then another, but it has to stop before it moves. It's not a continuous flow. So when that lead arm is moving back towards your the, the back, it's moving towards your back swing. When that lead arm is kind of parallel to the ground in and around, that's when you're going to be pressing hardest into your trail heel.
Speaker 3:Now I'll explain why the trail heel, but later, after you finish this question. But you want to press hard in your trail heel because that's activating your trail glute, and now you're going to push hard on your lead toe. Pressure is moving to your lead toe at the same time. So you're kind of stacking, you're getting pressure to the lead side and when that lead arm is parallel to the ground on the way down, now you're really pressing hard onto that lead toe and you're going to clear very versus via your lead heel.
Speaker 2:And hackers do just the opposite.
Speaker 3:It's not their fault. They don't know how to move their feet. Look, I I'll never go. I you know. Look, positional teaching is dead. It has been for many years, but golf rules just won't admit it. It's boring as shit to get a positional lesson. I'll tell you why. I when we were learning okay, I'm going to share a 90 seconds. It's less than 90 seconds, it's 45 seconds. I had nothing to do one day when I was in Vegas on seminar. So, for the hell of it, I signed up for a lesson in the public golf course. I go to the golf course.
Speaker 3:The guy doesn't have a clue who I am. I got a dirty t-shirt on, I got a pair of shorts and sandals on, literally, and I don't want them to know. I just want to hear what some local pros going to give me a lesson all about. So I said I said I'm kind of busy. Do you mind if I just hit a few shots and give me a few tips? He says let's go Hit a few shots. He says I don't like your grip, it sucks. So I said okay, let me show you this. I'm going to put my grip really strong. I want to put it in the middle and I want to put it really weak. And I hit three shots with the six iron dead straight about 150 yards. He says that's pretty good, but the distance is kind of not that good. And he says I don't like your stance. And so I said look, I'm Taiwan. I'm going to set up dead closed, square and wide open. I hit three shots, all about 150. He's measuring it on Trackman and I hit a dead dead straight about 150. He says okay, but you're not hitting it very far. I says dude, he says you need bigger shoulder turn. I said dude, I'm 65 years old, how far do you think I should hit this? He said I don't know, but 150 is not very good. I said I agree with you.
Speaker 3:I said I took out my multi stick, did a couple of acceleration, deceleration drills. I said I want to move all my pressure into my trail heel. I'm going to get pressure lead side quick when I press my lead toe. I'm going to clear. I stand up there. I hit a 180 too with a six iron 65. He looks at me. I give him his hundred bucks. I said you should buy a boi track. He says you know, I've heard of him, but I don't really think I want to. I'm ready for it. I give him my business card. I give him my business card. I give him a hundred bucks. He was only charging 50 for the lesson. So guess what and this is true story he signed up for the course yesterday or this afternoon when I launched it.
Speaker 2:Nice one.
Speaker 3:I chose the story. I'll never tell you, but he was pissing me off, but I just want. I had nothing to do. I feel kind of bad now because it's almost like I was in an argumentive mood, but I wasn't. I just wanted to see what 50 bucks got me in today's market. Let me tell you, it doesn't give you a hell of a lot.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, that's true in many cases. So let's go back to the influence of anatomy. You talked about tall golfers. What about short golfers? We talked earlier about tall golfers not liking lateral movement. What about on the opposite end of the spectrum? What about short golfers?
Speaker 3:I think short golfers. They're the ones that suffer the most injuries because they have to rotate like hell in order to be able to generate the maximum vertical forces. There's a disadvantage with the short golfer in the context that, a you're going to use a shorter driver and if you use a longer driver you're probably going to back up priority impact because you need more time. You have to be able to clear properly and in order to clear properly you're going to have to massively rotate and back up to generate the proper dynamic loft to get your height. Maybe I said that too quickly, but there was a period in time when, on the tour, I was doing a seminar in Boston and I don't get too nervous doing seminars but a friend of mine was kind of cheeky and he invited all the top. There was a show going on and all the top track man guys in North America and the planet were there except the owner. He invited all the tightest guys and they were doing it again. Keep in mind that they were all at a seminar at another show nearby, and so, anyways, they wanted me to talk about the Z-Trace and I was a little nervous, and when I get a little nervous I'm not afraid to just say whatever it just comes out. I said I don't really know why people use this trace. They should really use a shorter driver with more loft and try to straighten out their trace. And I thought I had blown it dead silence. Well, after the seminar I was over, both the track man and tightest guys came over to me and they said that year the trend on tour was for shorter drivers and higher lofts. I can't remember, but that was about five years ago. And they all said to me we think you're spot on, because when I was playing golf for a living I was using a 42 and three quarter inch driver and that was the right length for me that I had determined based on all my you know.
Speaker 3:I was building golf clubs, so for me to get a club and screw it up it wasn't a big deal. I just give it to a kid and watch him enjoy it. So I was always testing, manipulating, lost and all that stuff. Back then we didn't have variable puzzles. So you know, when you're permanently, you have to permanently insert the shaft. So I take out 10, 12 drivers.
Speaker 3:Go to a public golf course. I was a member of the private club but I go to a public golf course, I test them all at various lengths and then I'd find one or two that I like. And then I'd walk up to a kid that I saw that didn't look like you could afford a driver and just give it to him and ask him to hit a ball with it and I said, do you like it? He says, yeah, let him have it. But when you see a kid swinging with a longer driver that's short, typically they're going to back up and they're going to. They're going to their mass is going to be behind their pressure and their spine angle is going to be at a tilt and they're going to hurt themselves. And that's what I hate.
Speaker 2:So can we move on to about the influence of stance width and direction of your stance open, close, in relation to your target line on your reaction?
Speaker 3:Okay, let's address stance width. Very simple Though the more narrow that you stand, the more range of motion you're going to have in your in your upper body period. The wider that you stand, the less range of motion you're going to have in your hips and shoulders period and the statement.
Speaker 2:So try, just try, to take a picture there. Hang on there.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of a fellow Canadian by the name of Mo Norman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know Mo very well. I knew him very well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so his stance was rather wide for a man of his stature. I suppose that created helped him create a very linear trace.
Speaker 3:Well, listen, I go back a long time. I played with Mo as a top amateur. I played with Mo as a professional and I have a great story for Mo. We were doing a show in Orlando when we had a line of golf clubs called Jazz Golf and we weren't doing too well in the States at the time. We never did. We were more of a Canadian company. Mo saw us there. You never knew if Mo liked you or he didn't and we weren't busy.
Speaker 3:Mo comes into the booth, starts swinging the golf club. Next thing you know, I got 10 people around me. Next thing you know, we got 20 people around us. Next thing you know, we got a hundred people around us. My partner at the time says let's get out of here, we're just going to observe. Mo held office there for literally two hours plus a little bit, and at the end of the day we had every media on on at the show there and Mo liked you. When he liked you, he liked you.
Speaker 3:I knew Mo very well. We put reasonable amount of golf together. Yes, he had a wide stance and you know what? He wasn't a short hitter, but he wasn't long either. He generated a lot of vertical forces. He had linear trace and the only way I could tell you I know he had a linear trace because I can't see when the pressure is moving side to side totally heal, you really can't see it. But the one thing, the common denominator from a visible view perspective of a linear trace is if the trail heel is almost down on the ground, close to impact, the trace is linear.
Speaker 3:You take a look at all the major tour players that have won a major their trail heel, in particular in their irons, is very not off the ground. It's almost on the ground towards impact and even for the longer, better drivers. Now Justin Thomas says on linear trace and his irons, his trail heel is off the ground just a little bit. He's a pretty good short game player. If you watch him do lob shots and all that, he's actually an excellent short game player. You will see his trail heel on the ground. His trail toe is off the ground. Trail heel is off the ground in his driver because he's just not a big guy. So to answer your question, the size matter, yeah, but now let's answer your question about close to open. If you have a close stance, you're going to get pressure more into your trail heel, that's the more powerful stance because you're accelerating from your trail heel to your lead side If you and that's going to increase your range of motion on your backswing but it's going to decrease your range of motion towards impact. If you have an open stance, that's going to decrease your range of motion on your backswing and on your shoulder turn, but it's going to increase your range of motion on your follow through towards impact. So they both have various possibilities.
Speaker 3:But again, probably the best quote I ever heard from Tiger Woods, there was an interview after he won the first I think it was the Western Open, his first victory, I can't remember and the some smart alec reporter said to him you hit a draw from an open stance. Why? He said because it felt right. And you know who's the deny. You know because he, at his level, play it. And, by the way, I think there's a lot of golfers that can hit the ball very, very well. All not maybe to his degree, but all of us that some point have had our game when it was dialed in and we did things then that maybe we wouldn't do if we thought our way through it, but just made sense at the time and actually we pulled it off.
Speaker 3:The hands are the wild card here. They're a joker and a stack of 52 cards You're going to have 53 if you had a joker but they're the wild card and the wild card is the hands, because the hands can do crazy things. I've had guys tell me that they feel like their lead hand is rotating open towards impact and they've hit their best shots. I've had guys tell me the exact opposite. So the hands are the compensatory factor. That's the wild card and golf, and the better the hand I coordination, the more that the hands will be compensatory. But it's also a disaster because I like to tell all of my better players that the hands can choke but the feet won't.
Speaker 2:That's a great saying. So do you recommend one pattern for irons and another for drivers?
Speaker 3:for traces. Yeah, I recommend the linear trace across the board bar none Least dispersion. They just have to in the high performance section. Here Justin James demonstrates the linear trace and he you know Justin is getting older and like he's young but in terms of long driving he's getting into the. You know the older state, the later stages of long drive. The guys are frigging beast. He played base, he was a pitcher and baseball. You know long drives got to be in the Olympic sport one day. If you can put snow snowboarding in the Olympics, you can sure as help with a long drive in there, because these guys that do this stuff they train like we were.
Speaker 3:We spent three days with Justin. He's the premise, he's the star of section five. We tested them every which way from Sunday. We had orthopedic surgeons in there, we had pts in there, we had scientists in there and AMTI force plates, body track. We had all the 3D stuff with markers. You know, by trying or whatever it's called, we had everything. And you know I'm a, I am a fond, I admire Justin but he has a and he's changed his trace. The first time I saw him he had a Z trace About four years ago when Jimmy McClain sent me his trace.
Speaker 3:He straightened it out. He's dead linear and he knows Justin studies this stuff and he's been. He'll never say that I taught him anything and I'm not expecting him to, but we've shared a lot of ideas together and he's dead linear and his irons and his driver and that guy just kills it. And there's more and more people like that. Troy Mullins on the woman side. She's linear and she just rocks it. The Australian girl before Troy and I can't think of her name she just hits it like four or three, 65 all the time. She's dead linear. The Z trace is just another way of doing it. But all you're doing is backing up priority impact. Your spine tilts out of whack. You're creating dynamic. Often you're going to get hurt. You're going to get seriously hurt over time.
Speaker 2:Now what about the influence of grip? If you have a very weak grip, strong grip, how does that change your ground reaction force pattern?
Speaker 3:I don't think it does. In my discussions with Jim McClain over the years and maybe if Jim is listening he may deny this but I don't think that the grip is a fundamental of golf anymore. I think it's the least relevant part of our game. Now I won't question the fact that, yeah, I can snap, hook the shield above my grips too strong, but I won't deny that. But that's but you're everybody's hands different. You know, some people have longer fingers relative to the size of their hand than others. What is? How does that affect the grip?
Speaker 3:I will say one thing about the grip and this is a scientifically proven fact. You Google, it's true. There's a direct correlation between hand strength and length of life, and so I always work every day. I do wrist curls. I don't promote it, but I've always worked on my hands. Every time I've shaken the hand of a tour champion, a major winner, the guy almost broke my hand. But I have strong hands too, so I could, I could offset that. But great golfers have strong hands and I honestly don't think that the weather your grip is a few degrees to the right or a few degrees to the left. I don't think that makes any difference long term, because let me define what I need to say, because, before you guys kill me If you get used to that grip, I think the most important thing about the grip is doing the same time over and over and over makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:And the next question I have relates to the influence of anatomy. Do you think the string playing at one strings the club on affects the GRF patterns? Say that one more time the influence of string playing. So, for example, if I'm Steve as a shallow, how does that change once GRF patterns?
Speaker 3:Listen, this is unbelievable easy.
Speaker 3:You know anybody who's big on the launch. My email is hashimoto terry at gmailcom. Send me every hate mail that you're about to, because I'm going to say something to you that is from my heart. You're full of shit. Hath always follows pressure. You're an absolute idiot If you think that you can change the path without changing the pressure in the foot. You don't know shit about golf. You shouldn't even be in the golf teaching business because and you're arrogant because now I've pissed you off Send me the email to hashimoto terry at gmail and you can tell me to go fuck myself and and I will, and I will report back to you in the most pleasant manner possible that you are a complete fucking idiot.
Speaker 3:The path always follows pressure. It's a absolute given and I'm it is. This inside playing bullshit is literally bullshit. I'm going to tell you how exactly to do it right now. If you keep all your pressure in your heels, all the hell are you going to swing from over the top? You can't. As soon as you get pressure into the toes, you're over the top. And if you can't understand this and forgive me if you want to edit it go right ahead. You're the dumbest fucking idiot on the planet If you think that you can teach with launch monitors and you've just been fooling yourself all your life. You're a complete fucking idiot.
Speaker 2:So let's move on to the five fundamentals of modern pressure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now listen, I want you, you can bleep it out, but you promised me you put that in there because this is an absolute tourism path. Follows pressure. You try it. It's undeniable, and I will only work in undeniable premises because there's so many flakes out there trying to be golf pros that they should. You know if you could see a guy from malpractice in the golf business. So instead of the golf pros would have litigation issues. Okay, so ask me the question yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I totally agree with you on that point. If golf coaches were held to the same standards as medical professionals, a lot of them would be bankrupt by now.
Speaker 3:No question. No, I know you're from Singapore, that you know this type of language is considered vulgar and absolutely I'd probably be in jail if I spoke like that in the streets of Singapore. But I am at the stage of my life where I honestly don't really care what people think of me. I want to promote the truth. I want to tell you what I've seen. If you don't like it, don't do it. I don't give a shit. You know, if you pay the money for my course and you want to ask me a question, I will treat it with a full respect. Why? Because you took the time, you paid the money. I'm only charging $100 for the course. The course is worth $1,000. Why am I charging you $100? Because if you don't pay something for it, you're not committed to it.
Speaker 3:You know, I gave a guy a driver. He liked it. I had a spare driver and it wasn't a very wealthy. It was that he comes from a very poor economic background and so, unbeknownst to me, people are watching this and the guy says to me how much for it. I said give me a sixth pack of beer because it was hot out, and later on it was a really nice driver. It doesn't matter where, it was Really good shaft. So later on Billy asked the guy why did he sell me that driver? For a case of beer? And he said because Terry knew that's what you could afford. And so, along those lines of thoughts, that's how we priced the course. Go ahead and ask me the question. I'm sorry, I forgot.
Speaker 2:No, that's fine, and this is the objective of Jesse and myself. We want to get the truth out there.
Speaker 3:I have no trouble with that.
Speaker 2:You know, the listeners spend their hard-earned money on golf clubs and golf instruction. The least we could do is to give them real results. Give them real, accurate cause and effect, instead of some superstition where, oh, you're going to play worse in order to get better. Imagine if I'm a doctor and you came to me and said Justin, I've got this issue and I give you some medication and I say to you, terry, this thing will make you feel like you've been through hell. You need to take it for three days before you get better. You just stand up and walk right out of my room, isn't that?
Speaker 3:correct. I don't know about the medication, but you brought up a very important issue. We have a program coming down the road we call it teammates where the golf instructor who certified they agree that their clients they have the option to take a scaled down version of our class. And let me explain why. Along the medical lines you know, when you get to my age, you have a few friends that have suffered serious medical surgery and it's uncanny how the ones that have healed the quickest have the best knowledge of what they're about to go through from the surgical perspective, what the process is for recovery and how long it's going to take. And why is that? It's because the doctor has unbelievable knowledge and he knows how to explain it to the patient in such a way that the patient understands completely what the process of the surgery. They even know the medical terms of the muscles and the bones you know. And the doctor so thoroughly shared with them his knowledge that they became more confident because they could speak the same language together. And that's the issue that the golf pros have when they teach technology, when they teach using technology and like if we have a dumbed down version of our sort of our certification guidelines, and the pro offers it to those clients and the clients opt in for it. I guarantee you three things will happen. Number one the clients that opt in for it. They're going to have a better experience when they take a pressure mapping lesson. Number two is the length of time for that lesson can go down Instead of you. We've seen it go down literally by half in some cases. The third thing that's going to happen is that pro is now going to become separate themselves from all the other other other teachers in the area, because now this pro is not only teaching the student, he's been educating the student on the technologies that are going to advance, to advance their games. That's what we are going to do.
Speaker 3:And I'm pushing water uphill, brother. It's like taking a snowball that's rolling down the hill and I'm saying stop, we're going to push it back up the hill. And you know that's what we're doing, because the notion that I can replicate a position with such precise accuracy flatters me that you can want to share that with me. But I can tell you, if you just push on your trail trail heal, as soon as you take the club back, push down on your trail heal, just try it. Just try it. Push from your trail heal to the lead side. As soon as you take the club back, boom, trail heal lead side, trail heal inside, trail heal that side. But. But don't get into your trail toe. Just try it. If you're right toe or not the wrong, if you're right hand or golfer, just hit some balls with it, get used to it. I'll guarantee you in five swings you're hitting the ball better than you've ever hit in your life. I see Justin trying this, and that's a good thing, because now you're activated in the trail glute.
Speaker 3:Now you're telling your body where it wants to go lead side and now it's up to God. After a certain point, you know there's I'm a commercially ready to pot it and passengers. So if you're flying Air Singapore, you might not want to know this, but we're all passengers the last 50 feet and when that lead arm is parallel to the ground and the way down towards impact, you basically you ain't going to be able to stop that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but a lot of people have this notion that they can do somehow do some last minute compensation.
Speaker 3:You can, but you're going to mess it up. Now there are occasions when you you know, when you slip, you recover with your hands. We've all hit good drives when we slipped on a wet surface or whatever that. It is that. But yeah, but we recover with our hands, and high hand I coordination is never to be overrated. It's, it's, it's fundamental for elite performance, anything if you're a soccer player, or whether you're a great cricket, or whether you play field hockey and or if you play ping pong and I, coordination is essential for an elite athlete. But let's just talk the common person. The number one pressure for long golf is getting too much pressure into the toe. So to offset that, the fix is going to be curl up your toes, keep the pressure in your heels, hit some shots like that. If you can't do it, just lift the right toe off the ground, your trail toe, hit the ball. You'll see if the toes are breaks, the heels. That accelerators and if you've got your pressure in your trail heal, now at least you've got your foot on the gas pedal, the heel on the gas pedal, and now you're going to accelerate to the lead side. If you put all your pressure in your trail toe and try to take it back. You're going to be hanging back. You're not going to. It's like driving on the highway with one foot on the gap on the on the brakes. You're not going to. You're not going to be able to accelerate smoothly to the lead side. You know there was.
Speaker 3:I almost didn't complete this project. I didn't quite make enough money to where I could retire, but I did okay so that could take a year off and not have to worry about it and watch my son play football and get them set up at the housing university and I'm not stressed out too much about the next year or two. But I decided I'm very addictive in my personality. When I something happened, somebody said something to me that just pissed me off and I said, screw it, I'm going to get it done. And then I had to go back to school and I really use some of the technology on all this stuff. I've never stopped learning and you know this thing that we saw going perpendicular, clear when pressure clears perpendicular to target. That's a fairly new revelation. That's something that we only saw consistently in the long hitters in the past four months. So this is a fairly fresh, fresh revelation.
Speaker 2:So you spoke about keeping a lot of the hackers. They have too much pressure on the toes. So that's the first of the top three pressure flaws. What about the other two?
Speaker 3:Well, backing up in the irons? Backing up in the irons is a no. No, it's absolutely, because now you've lost your low point ball control, because now you probably you can hit it anywhere you can. Then you can in fact anything. That's number two. So to to fix that, you want to do a step drill. Or you want to do some of our golf dance drills where we're constantly moving pressure to the lead side and we want to reverse it so that we're doing it on our heels. You can see it on our while you just follow that. I posted those drills, actually. But the step drill, you can do the Nicholas drill where you lift up the trail heel on the way back and hammer it down the lead side. That's basically a modified step drill.
Speaker 2:The lead heel.
Speaker 3:You mean no, you're yeah, pardon me, you lift your lead heel off the ground on the way back and then you hammer it down on the way down my apologies, you're absolutely correct and then you do the or you can do the player drill. I always wanted to ask Gary player this and you know, I think maybe one day I'll get a chance to. I always wanted to know why he walked through the shot. But I think innately he knew that he was backing up and I think you know he would walk through the shot when he was at his peak, when he was in contention, because he didn't want to back up. It's a good drill to do. It's hard to do, but it's a good drill to do, the Sam Snead drill we call it, where you curl up the toes and both feet. We did this with Sir Nick, jake and I did Jake and Sir Nick. He ripped it and he said he used to do that in the mid 90s when he was playing his best golf and we asked him why did he stop doing that? He said I don't remember. And every good player you guys are good golfers Every good player that it's happened to me, every good player will remember a point in their time when they were playing so well and then they forgot what they were doing to do it. And that's where body track really comes in.
Speaker 3:If you're a shrewd operator and if you have a, I used to tell the tour coaches this when your player wins the tournament, the very next day, go to the range and capture all the pressure traces for all their clubs. Why I call this swing banking? Because it's money in the bank, because when they're not playing so well, you can refer to it. Now you've got a baseline of a champion. I should get percentages off these bastards that I taught. I mean, the greatest thing about a tour coach is they love you. When they need you and when they figure they learned everything, they just basically blow you off. It's unbelievable. And the truth is, they repents and he asks the deal was so I'm glad they blew me off. So it was an equal opportunity learning experience. They abused me and I abused them because they were sending me all the information and I got to shit.
Speaker 3:It was a perfect relationship. Fuck you, fuck you and. But you know like it was absolutely beautiful because but there's a lot of guys there that I'm a little bit exaggerated. But I think that the one thing that you learn as a professional golfer is that funny, we can be the best friends sitting in an airplane, but when we land, we all take off, we scatter.
Speaker 3:When we get to a tournament, some of us will hang together, around together, but basically we all live in our bubble. We've got our, we've got our wife there, maybe you've got your kid there, you've got your coach there, you know, but we live in a bubble. It's all about me. That's why I stopped playing golf. It's me, I, me and or I, me, I, it doesn't matter, it's a combination of those three I, I, I. But you know, golf has become a team sport and it's not always been like that. Businesses are team sports. You can't do without a team. You need, you need a group of people behind you that understand who you are, what you are, and you need to have the data with you so you can refer to it when you're not playing so good.
Speaker 2:So the last of the top three pressure floors.
Speaker 3:This is the best one. The number one way to gain distance and low point ball control is to get pressure to the lead side early and have the strength and stability to keep it there. Ask me that whenever you want, I'll say the same words. I've said it so many times, it's automatic, but it's also true, okay. So, old guys, the number three pressure for golf is that old guys like me typically don't get pressured to the lead side quick enough. And how you get pressured to the lead side quickly is to press into the trail heels as soon as you take the club back and when you're taking it back, begin to press into the lead toe and on the way down, when your lead arm is proud, all the way down, you're going to press hard into your lead toe and press rapidly and clear perpendicular to the target, which creates massive hip rotation and basically violently increases the club head speed via your hands.
Speaker 3:But anybody who tells me that they want they have your hands move wildly towards impact is probably a very handsy player and very susceptible to erratic performance. The hands don't move very fast. They move typically between 18 to 22 miles an hour for a Turing Pro and quite a bit less for the average golfer. But the hands sort of the last point of contact other than the club head itself. So the hands really kind of whip in there at the end. But how you release your hands will generate ultimately the maximum ball speed that you want to obtain.
Speaker 2:You mentioned something and I think that it would be good for you to clarify. You mentioned clearing perpendicular to the target line. Could you add a little bit more color on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, you know how we've been taught as a growing up in golf, our lead foot should be kind of open towards the target, do you agree? Yes, that turns to be completely bullshit. If you want to hit the ball far, square up your lead foot. Why? It's a question, not a statement.
Speaker 2:Square up the lead foot so that you can get pressure from your AP forces.
Speaker 3:No, you're generating a brick. This is called counter rotation. So now you're creating a wall so that your hands can hit against the wall. So now you have to have resistance in order to generate speed. So you generate, you're building a wall to hit against and then you rapidly clear that wall open with your by pressing from your lead toe to your lead heel. Clearing rapidly dramatically opens the lead hip. Thus your shoulders and your hands follow. Now let me give you an example.
Speaker 3:I take a bucket of water and throw it at a wall. What's it going to do? Let's say I take it a bucket of water and I throw it at the base of a wall. Where's it going to go? Upper, upper, sideways, up or up or down? Well, I can't go down, so it's going to go up the wall. Right? I take a pale water and I throw it against the base of the wall. Some of the water is going to go up the wall, correct? Yes, okay. So now what happens if that wall moves forward while I throw the bucket of water at the wall? If that wall was a moving wall and it moved forward, it wouldn't move forward the bucket, it wouldn't go up the wall because the wall is moving forward. So if your body is moving laterally while you're going towards impact, you're not going to have the same break effect as if the bottle is moving perpendicular to the target. So in other words, we're generating the stronger the break effect is on the lead side, the greater the distance you can achieve.
Speaker 3:Now I know a lot of bomb mechanics. I had a lot of debate about this. They weren't rude to the point where I would go tell them to suck eggs, but a lot of people don't like me work using the word break. I don't know why, actually, and the more they explain it to me, the less I understand it. So I just came to the conclusion I'm not talking the same language. Either you're a complete asshole or I'm the complete asshole, and I don't give a shit who's the asshole. Language is, for you know we live in a country called Canada and you know people speak French and Canada it's a sort of a bilingual country and I respect both languages. But if you use that language against me as a weapon, you know I'm going to take you on, because just because I can't speak French, that well doesn't mean you shouldn't serve me at a restaurant. And so if you, as a bio mechanic maybe don't agree with the word break, but you understand what I mean. Maybe it's not that important that you, that I have to use your fucking language. You know, because if you understand me, that's 99% of the battle, if you can communicate with your student. Hence I want the students to take the course too, because now, if we can create communication between the student and the instructor, then 50% of the time is saved on me trying to explain to the student what the hell I'm trying to say to them.
Speaker 3:I have a friend named Steve Chabon who teaches in China and he says it's very challenging because the language barrier. I said Steve, learn Chinese. You're living in China. Speak the fucking language, man. Don't expect them to speak English, you know? I said you moved to China, you speak the language, and he gets pissed off. Blah, blah, blah. His son plays professional soccer down in Miami. So my son's a good soccer person we have. But I've known Steve who played the Canadian term a long time. Well, that shit.
Speaker 3:But the point of this is this is that you break twice during your golf, so once on the way back on the trail side and once on the lead side prior to impact. You break on the trail side so the pressure can move forward, and then you break on your lead side, so you're creating a wall that you can hit against. But if that wall moves, I lose all the power. So I want to keep the wall there. But instead of me moving the wall forward, now, justin, I'm going to move the wall perpendicular to the target, so that that wall still there, except I'm clearing it so that I can get out of the way quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agree with you and you talked about soccer. So when Ben's going to plant a shot and go, his lead foot will be planted. It's not rotating wildly, same thing with throwing a javelin shot, but there is some breaking there so that the force is transmitted from the proximal to the distal parts.
Speaker 3:Are you physical therapists? No, I'm not, but I'm trained All right. So it's funny because when Ben was a little boy obviously I knew nothing about soccer I had a swim in a golf scholarship. I was the seventh fastest breaststroke on the road when I was 14. But I love golf and I couldn't give a shit about swimming. All I could see was pain. But I was so fast in those days it was ridiculous.
Speaker 3:I trained like a beast. We trained twice a day, you know five thirty in the morning until seven. Go to school, come back and five thirty train, and every weekend in between me. I don't know how many years I did it for, but I hated it. I was just good at it. I was only strong. And every time I see a pool now I don't even want to jump in the water because all I can think about is pain. It's kind of like going on the golf course, when I I've owned three golf courses, lost money on every one of them. Every time I see a golf course, all I see is diminishing returns and increasing costs. Period, end of statement. So you know, it's kind of like that.
Speaker 3:So where I was going with that is that when Benny was learning how to play. Learning was beginning in soccer, I had nothing to offer except do whatever. You know, I throw the ball to him, kick it to him, blah, blah, blah. But I always thought I insisted that he plant his lead foot at near the ball, not ahead of it and not behind it.
Speaker 3:It turned out that that was a good thing to teach him, because he kicks it pretty hard. And it turns out that when you talk to the proper coaches, they'll tell you exactly what I said, which is to plant that lead foot, you know, you know, perpendicular to the ball, because that's going to give you absolutely, you know, pretty close to optimal potential for maximizing the power in your foot. And the harder you plant, justin, jess, is that the harder you plant that vertical pressure and around that's the same thing as in golf that's going to optimize. You know, the harder you push in the ground, the more that you're going to the ground's going to react and force you upwards, giving you more momentum in your trail foot to kick the ball in the most effective manner. It's not hard, you know.
Speaker 2:Makes perfect sense? I don't know why, it's just an open to my website. What is easy copy, the winners Just need to know. So in that, in that situation, terry, yeah, would it not be more beneficial for listeners to kind of close up the trails for us or the lead foot? So if you're flaring it open, you kind of want to point it closed. I posted a bit being perpendicular to the target line. You might even want it to be like 10 degrees close to the I wouldn't close it.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't because now you've got you know, you've got some health issues here the more that your lead foot is perpendicular to the target. You've got to get that foot out of the way when the club is getting close to it, otherwise you're going to hurt your lead, your lead foot. The number one way to avoid injuries in golf is the line joints up at impact. If your foot, ankle, hands, knee, hip and shoulder are lined up in one line vertically towards impact, you're safe. The more that the shoulder is away from that vertical line at impact, the more that means your mass is behind the pressure and your your, your spine angle is in not in an optimal position and you have chance to hurt yourself with. But lining up the joints is what I'm the first guy. I'm not trying to take credit for this, I'm trying to create credibility to your readers. So when I say I was the first, it's not because well, maybe it is, but I don't think it is because I really don't care who uses it, but because I didn't learn that on my own.
Speaker 3:Mark Shaftick taught me that. Mark Shaftick was the head of instruction at Marion when I knew it was his theory. He took a big bucket of golf balls. You know the ones that got about 400 balls in him. He said put that on the outside of your foot and try to pick it up. No, no, put it right over your foot, line up here, line up all your joints and pull up on it. And it's very easy to pull up on it. And it's like that with golf and I, I, I, I, I. Line up the joints at impact is definitely the number one way to reduce the potential for injury, but also to you've got to press hard down on the lead foot. If you make it too closed, you know you're going to have to clear massively quick priority impact or you're going to get hurt.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's move on to the five fundamentals of modern pressure mapping.
Speaker 3:No problem. So in general terms, the modern golfer. The first fundamental is those set up strong around the lead side 55, 60. And I've seen golfers as high as 70, 75, depending on where they play, like East Texas, or if they grow up in a very windy place in Europe or whatever it might be. You see a lot in the UK they set up very strong. So that's principle number one. A principle number two pressure transition. The pressure will move forward to the lead side much sooner than people think. And while in and around P3, what? But in and around when the lead arm is parallel to the ground on the way back. That's going to be pressure transition.
Speaker 3:Number three is at pressure transition, we call this counterbalance. This is a premise that everybody needs to understand. Your arms have a mass about 10% of your body weight, if you Google it. So if you're 200 pounds, that's 20 pounds. So you take a 20 pound ball, you throw it towards the target. You better have more pressure in your heels to offset the forces going towards the target. So at pressure transition, the better players going to have 55, 60 plus, plus, plus into their trail heal.
Speaker 3:The fourth fundamental of pressure mapping is is that the amount of pressure that you get to the trail side depends on the length of the club. So for a wedge, at pressure transition. So the amount of pressure that you get to the trail side at pressure transition depends on the length of the club. For a wedge, 5560 for a mid iron, maybe 6570 for a framework, maybe 7580. For a driver 8090. So the longer the club, the more pressure that you will get to the trail side. The fifth tenant of the five fundamentals of modern pressure mapping is that at impact for a wall struck shot, you're going to have 80 to 90% of the pressure at impact on your lead side. Now, within those five fundamentals of modern pressure mapping lie in an array of other key pressure positions at address, pressure transition and impact. They all have little nuances that we discussed in section three.
Speaker 2:The thing is that these five fundamentals are what good players do, and you can use these five fundamentals as kind of like guideposts when constructing our own golf swing slash golf game 100% and one thing that I was very cognizant about while I was developing these outlines, these sections not everybody has a pressure map. Yeah, Do we need? Do we need body track? Do we need a body track or force plates to improve our game space? On the principles that you have just spoken about, it would help because validation improves performance.
Speaker 3:Let me explain. If you see constantly improvement and you can objectively demonstrate that it helps, you can stay in the course. And confidence is an amazing thing because, you know, little dog doesn't think they're small when they're against the pressure. They don't know, they can't see. So objective data in that case would hurt the small dog because he'd see that he was small.
Speaker 3:Well, in terms of us increasing our, if I see my trace improving, I don't even need to look at launch. But then launch is a good secondary device that validates the pressure map. When your trace improves, either your path will improve and or your distance will improve and or or and or will both. So does a pressure? Is it necessary to have a pressure map to use these tenants? No, but you don't know where you are without a pressure map because or some form of analytical tool that can measure center of pressure, because you can't really see. You're just guessing.
Speaker 3:Now, the caveat being this biofeedback. I am like the first tenant, which is setting up 5560 at address. What we do when we're teaching this is we get the golfer to stand on the pressure mat and look at a monitor, find 5560, then back off of it, go back to it, find 5560. We do this two or three times and sometimes five or six. And then on the last attempt, we tell them not to look at the monitor, recover the monitor while we're looking at the monitor and we ask them to find 5560 and overwhelmingly seven out of 10 will be able to do it on the first attempt. Now they're beginning to feel it.
Speaker 3:Now I've done this standing backwards to an audience of 500 or more people and I said I'm going to tell you when I'm at 55, I'm going to tell you when I'm at 57, I'm going to tell you when I'm at 60. You know, I was, I was gambling, but I was at the peak of my game back then in terms of like. You know, I was doing it like three or four times a day. I was doing small seminars with one a week kind of a large, maybe 80 to 100, and then once a month, you know, 3,400 people. But I took a chance. But that that was the beginning of how we understood how to use ball feedback. You can do the same thing per position number two, which is pressure transition.
Speaker 3:You can show people, okay, you can be, you can be swinging, you can continue your backswing, but the pressure is moving forward. But I look at it at the monitor and that's a great ball feedback technique, by the way, it's like unbelievable. Because that, that that blows them away, because it's exact contrarian to what golf pros are teaching. We are in the dark ages, guys. I mean, we are living. I mean it's like our planet, isn't it? You know, if you go to the Amazon, there are still tribes of people that that, that that we as mainlanders are not allowed to go visit for fear of us giving them a disease that would wipe out the entire community. You know, and I feel like it's the opposite, where these golf pros typically teaching position of off, they have a stranglehold on the existing market and they're killed them. We are the, the anti toxin. I don't know what you call it. We call that. We are the entity, we are the, we are the antidote and we are swimming upstream in a sea of sharks. Well, I, you know, I'm being coached and I'm pretty, I can't just blow off my steam, and everybody, I got to be, you know, mainstream and order people to accept me, but at the same time you almost want to create a nuclear war with the idiots and the who are holding this down. It's like you know. I'm sure you will agree with this. In your own city and town you're an idiot, but when you leave town you're an expert.
Speaker 3:And when I started by track, everybody said I was complete idiot. Then I was a fool and they were saying that behind me, back into my face. I didn't carry the way because I was going to go to the can that. We have an expression I'm going to keep going to the net. That's a hockey term. I don't care what's happening behind me, I'm going to the net. There's no rear view mirrors in a jet airplane. I'm a jet pod, all right, I'm not looking back. So I would tell guys okay, no problem.
Speaker 3:After the second and third year I sold about 3,400 units. You know, maybe he's got a good thing, maybe he's okay. It's still too expensive for me. I think it's a toy. But about the third or fourth year I sold 2000 units. You know what's not a bad idea? By the sixth or seventh year I had sold about 3000 units. A lot of people were starting to talk about it. You know, I don't know why everybody doesn't have one of these. And then by the seventh or eighth year, you know the hash them all to the genius. I'm the same guy that it was when I started in day one. I'm just looking for a faster way to improve golfers in an optimal manner, because you know it's pointless to okay.
Speaker 3:I want to throw out a stat. I know you guys were coming towards the end of this of the show, but statistically I'm not a numbers guy, but I kind of am. You know, one third of the golfers on this planet are 50 years old. When you're 50 on average, you between 50 and 60 on average you lose one to two yards a year. The average driving distance for someone 50 years old in the world is about 212 yards in and around. By the time you're 60, the average golfer will lose between three and seven yards a year for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 3:Now me myself. I was in that category where I was only hitting about 230 to carry 225. I have a philosophy of I can't fix myself, I can't share it with other people. You know it's not necessarily true, but just. You know, I'm half Ukrainian, half Japanese. It's a cultural thing and I set up all getting my distance back and unless in a year I'm hitting my six iron 180, when I want to, on a good warm day, I can carry my driver 275 to 285. And if it's really hot I can actually carry one 300.
Speaker 3:I'm 65. I'm not saying that's long as guys that got out driving by 50 or 60 yards at my age. But the overwhelming majority of the people that are 65 can only hit the ball ball 185, 175. You know what, guys, without using any in the swear words, I'm not going to play golf. When I hit my driver 175, 180. I'm not going to do it. It's not there.
Speaker 3:So those numbers to me are very important because when you lose one third of your market, where are you going to get the rest from? And it's got to be from faster, quicker learning, because the number one reason people don't take up golf is the learning curve. It's not the expense anymore. You can go buy a used set of golf clubs that's only two years old for literally 200 or 300 US dollars. You don't even have to play golf, you can go to the driving range, and there's lots of driving ranges all over the world that aren't really that expensive. I know it's expensive in Singapore, but you know a moderate peninsula is expensive, but in most, you know, rural settings golf is not an expensive sport. Rather than speaking anymore, you want to see an expensive sport. Take up hockey. The gear costs you two grand and you got to get new gear every year because you wear it out.
Speaker 3:I mean golf, in my opinion, is if guys like you and I don't change the way that people learn, golf is dead, and I'm not being dramatic. The numbers point that way. Shouldn't blossom during COVID. But we tend to forget what golf was like before COVID. It was on a straight decaying line and most of the people that play golf today they play a lot of golf because the golf course are busy over 50. How many kids do you see play golf midday on this on during the week? Right, you don't see them at eight o'clock, nine o'clock in the morning, they're in school.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks a lot for your deep insights, Terry. Can you tell our listeners where we can find you and more about the golf rehab certification program?
Speaker 3:If they go to golfrehabcom, they can see my email address. They can click on the online courses. Go directly to the site. They don't have to pay a penny Section, one's free, no credit card required, so you don't have to worry about hooking it up. If they like the car, they can leave a nice review. If they don't like the course, they'll actually want feedback, because everything you tell me, if you're sincere, is meant to help me and I want to learn. So go to golfrehabcom. It's got my email address. It's got my links to all my social media, everything it's all there.
Speaker 3:I finally did something right from a technical perspective in terms of using the internet, everything's good. We're using a system called WAP. It's a brand new piece of software that was developed by a bunch of guys that teach gaming lessons, hot and gamble, and they want to expand into sports. They just raised $40 million. For some reason. They like me. It's going to be a crazy experience. This WAP app is unbelievable, just like the shirt we do one day, because we're on the lead and edge of some stuff here that, from a technical perspective, that's unbelievable for teaching. But you know we need people like you guys to get this message out as a ballgifer. It's for a purpose, because I want to challenge the individuals that are in the status quo. I'm not a status quo guy, I'm an outlier. And why am I an outlier? Because I want to see what's out there. I already know what's in there, and what's in there is positional teaching. I want to see what's better.
Speaker 2:Got you. Thanks again for your time, Terry.
Speaker 3:Thank you guys Appreciate it very much. Thanks Yep. Thanks Terry for coming. You guys have a wonderful night.
Speaker 2:Thank you, terry, thanks Jesse, see you later.