Unlock the secrets of a powerful golf swing as EA Tishler, a pioneer in golf coaching, joins us to dissect the intricacies of the game. Discover how to harness your body type for sustainable speed and learn why a one-size-fits-all approach to golf can do more harm than good. With our in-depth conversation, we're not just offering swing advice; we're rewriting the rulebook on how to achieve your best performance on the green.
Feel the mental muscles flexing as we tackle the philosophical side of golf, emphasizing the importance of mindset, pre-acceptance, and the art of staying present. Whether you're navigating the mental hurdles of a competitive round or seeking to enter the coveted flow state, our discussion provides strategies to strengthen your mental game, transforming the way you approach each shot. EA's insights serve as a beacon for golfers looking to conquer the psychological aspects that are so pivotal to the sport.
As the episode concludes, I share exciting news about my new platform, MakingYourGolfSimple.com, and extend a heartfelt invitation to join me for a round of golf amidst the stunning vistas of Monterey. This episode isn't just about improving your golf swing; it's a celebration of the game's camaraderie and the shared journey toward mastery. Swing by for this engaging exchange that's sure to resonate with golfers seeking to elevate every facet of their game.
Unlock the secrets of a powerful golf swing as EA Tishler, a pioneer in golf coaching, joins us to dissect the intricacies of the game. Discover how to harness your body type for sustainable speed and learn why a one-size-fits-all approach to golf can do more harm than good. With our in-depth conversation, we're not just offering swing advice; we're rewriting the rulebook on how to achieve your best performance on the green.
Feel the mental muscles flexing as we tackle the philosophical side of golf, emphasizing the importance of mindset, pre-acceptance, and the art of staying present. Whether you're navigating the mental hurdles of a competitive round or seeking to enter the coveted flow state, our discussion provides strategies to strengthen your mental game, transforming the way you approach each shot. EA's insights serve as a beacon for golfers looking to conquer the psychological aspects that are so pivotal to the sport.
As the episode concludes, I share exciting news about my new platform, MakingYourGolfSimple.com, and extend a heartfelt invitation to join me for a round of golf amidst the stunning vistas of Monterey. This episode isn't just about improving your golf swing; it's a celebration of the game's camaraderie and the shared journey toward mastery. Swing by for this engaging exchange that's sure to resonate with golfers seeking to elevate every facet of their game.
Hello and welcome to the Fly Hunters Golf Podcast. Hello, as always, my name is Jesse Perriman and, along with myself and my fellow podcast hosts sometimes when I can pull them off the lesson tee at the Tan Ameri Golf Club in Singapore, justin Tang, one of the more well-versed instructors, coaches teachers out there in the planet, and this upcoming episode is part two of EA Tish, for EA is, quite frankly, one of the most educated humans, let alone golf coaches, that I've ever met. Ea has published several books and if you listen to part one, part two even gets better, and I would encourage everybody who has not heard part one to listen to part one prior to queuing this up. So two, if you are unaware, I am currently taking clients one on one. I am doing something unique where I'm going to help you go down the right rabbit holes and maybe untangle some knots that you may have tied yourself into. Very easy to do in today's age. When you're searching for things to help you with your game on the internet, one can be easily let astray and more on that I'm sure later.
Speaker 1:Justin and I have talked about it how we both have a little bit of a disdain for people who are out there just trying to make a buck, that are using fancy words but, quite frankly, a lot of it's out of context and we can be seduced by those who sound as if they are proficient in coaching the game of golf but in fact they may not be. Unfortunately, we do have a few coaches out there that that should be should be a little bit more better educated before they help those of us who are amateur players that use our hard earned money to get better, and because we are want to get better at playing the game that we love, the man that we have on, e A Tishler. Part two is indeed going to help to untangle some of those, those thoughts, the tangled thoughts that we may have. Somebody as well versed in the educated is the A Just take what he says to heart, because he truly has learned from everybody that he can can learn from and continues to learn from, and and it's come up with his own unique ideas and his way of coaching that has helped many a player, and Justin and I both vet people that come on the podcast. We want to make sure that they are sound in their, their teachings, they believe what they're doing and they have the best intentions for all of us, that anybody who goes to see them. Their best intentions are, first and foremost, to help the player understand their golf swing, understand their game and to heads get better.
Speaker 1:E A is multi-densitized in swing technique, mindfulness, training and what the body is doing, what it should be doing and also what it shouldn't be doing, and he understands it all. So, without further ado, if you want to get a hold of me for one on one coaching, the easiest way is JPGmailcom right now. Or you can find me on Instagram, direct message me at flag hunters, golf pod All one word. Just look up E A. He he's got his own website and you could just find him on all the socials as well. Tell him that we sent you.
Speaker 1:I have his contact details in part one and I don't need to repeat it here. And if you need to go, justin at elite golf swing on Instagram is the easiest way to get a hold of him. And then you could also find E A as well on Instagram at E A Tishler All one word his name. And want to give a special shout out to E A for coming on and really I feel honored that he did come on and just really do such a great job of explaining where he's coming from in a way that's very easy to understand. And E A Thanks to you. And once again, please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the pond. It helps me out, it helps, helps me know that people are listening and that we're making an impact, a positive impact, in our golf community. And once again, everybody thanks for listening and Merry Christmas to everyone and I hope that you are having, and do have, a blessed and happy holiday season. Cheers everybody.
Speaker 2:I want you to talk a little bit about the over speed and under speed trainers and your little modification to make your speed gains more sustainable. Yeah, so I had a discussion before about just swinging a super speed stick or the stack at full blast and not see that speed increase. Carry over onto the golf course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this has a lot to do with body types. So when we look at most of the modern speed training, it's designed to improve fast switch muscle activity, and so I'm in the middle. So, for example, when I play football, I was a linebacker and a fullback. There was a reason I was never a cornerback or a halfback. They actually asked me to be halfback one year or try to do it, and they put me back at fullback very quickly. I was fast. I was fast enough and I could hit hard.
Speaker 3:That's why I was a linebacker and a fullback. I wasn't fast enough to be a halfback. I wasn't fast enough to be a cornerback. No matter how hard I worked on getting more speed, it seemed like I kind of topped out at that area. I was better applying force and driving force than I was at creating more speed.
Speaker 3:Really fast switch muscles create speed a lot easily. Really slow twist muscle guys like Dockardy I don't care what you do, you can do speed training with him all day long. He's quickly going to get to a point at the Michigan Returns but he can apply a lot of force. If you look at the ectomorph, endomorph, mesomorphopotholors or body athletes, the guys that are really muscular can apply a lot of force. Those guys that are slender, fast switch muscles can get a lot of speed. There's the guys in the middle. You got to understand where on that continuum, the people that are able to top out fast switch muscles and keep going. They'll get it slow but they'll be able to continue to grow and maintain it like Matt Fitzpatrick. It's a lot of a stack system that's going to work for him. What did Bryson do differently? He bulked up to do it differently. He didn't do the speed training as much as he learned to apply force better. He admits he probably overdid it because he's probably more in the middle, like I am.
Speaker 3:One thing I do is for me in particular. I actually swing a weighted club. People say, oh my God, it's going to slow you down. How many times have you heard that over the last 10, 15 years? Interestingly enough, I do it for learning how to get the force linked up in the kinetic chain, channeling it through the system better to get the club moving. I don't do it for speed training but whenever I do it, ultimately I get more clubhead speed out of the system. When I feel like I'm losing clubhead speed because I haven't been working out and I haven't done my heavy club training and all that, I will go do it again and I pick up more clubhead speed.
Speaker 3:I have drivers, for example. I have a driver that has lead tape wrapped all the way around the shaft. People are, oh my gosh, this looks like a sledgehammer. Then I have a steel shafted driver and then I have my graphite shafted driver. When I'm swinging the weighted club, you're doing it for force application, not for clubhead speed. I'll start out somewhere around 100 and 101 mile an hour clubhead speed when I can get that club up to 106 to 109,. I know that I'm now in a place where when I pick up that steel shafted club, I'm going to swing it at 106 to 109, which is kind of where I normally would swing that club when I can get that steel shafted driver, then up to 115, 16, 17,. Then I pick up my graphite shaft, I'm swinging at 115, 17. Mind you, as soon as I pick up that graphite shaft, everything goes dead, left for the first five, six balls, because it's so light.
Speaker 3:It just wants to go. But then when I learn to sequence it up again, I get my ball flight and my start direction and my ball flight back. But then that's why I'm able to get into the 120s. I was doing it just the other day and I hit 127, which for me at my age I think is pretty darn good at the top end. Now, of course, like they say, you play at 80% of that or 85%, I forget. Sasha McKenzie has a study on that. He kind of has this idea of what's your top speed and what percentage of that do you play at. He's got a number for that. I think it's very accurate. So I don't do the speed training like everybody else does for speed all the time.
Speaker 3:Now mind you, I have a swing whiffle. I demonstrate it in lessons all the time. I'm really good at getting the force, whatever force I have, from my hands to the club head. So everybody I think needs to be good at that. But it means I'm not training the rest of the fast which most of my body tried to get that club head to go faster. You see what I'm saying. So I do it from a more of a force application standpoint. Now I do enough type speed training to keep me at my peak.
Speaker 3:But anything beyond that's a point at diminishing returns. So it's a lot of waste of time for me to try to get past that point. You see what I'm saying. I only want to take it to a certain point and I want to keep my speed training there. And anything beyond that is going to be applied to force training. For me, because I'm in the middle Some of you, it's more big, strong, muscular. They're going to do it through force training, not as much speed training. But they still got to learn how to use the hinge and the unhinge. They got to smash it. They got to get the energy from the hands to the club head, otherwise it doesn't matter. They can create all the power they want from the body. If they can't get it to multiply it from the hinge and the unhinge into the club head, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:So how do we determine? Where we are on that continuum, like for Jesse, the continuum of speed and force.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the best way of doing that is just look at the ectomorph, endomorph, mesomorph, figure out where you are in that pattern and you'll know the big muscular guy at one end, the skinny fast guy at the other end and you're the guy in the middle. So if you're the muscular guy, you're going to do it more through force application. If you're the skinny fast guy, you're going to do it more through speed training. And if you're in the middle, you got to keep your speed training at the point where you're not hitting diminishing returns anymore and then work on force applications to get most of it.
Speaker 2:So, jesse, what are your proportions?
Speaker 1:again, I am 6'2", 220 pounds.
Speaker 3:Yeah now I mean I looked at people a lot. Right, he's somewhere between the middle of the pattern and the muscular pattern, if you want to look at that respect. So he's more towards the middle. But you know he's going to do better by understanding how the lower body power segment works, linking up a proper midsection and then learning how to get it to the distal end. And then after that, if I had him, learn how to warm up with a heavy club and not try to get speed, try to apply force through the club end to the ball. Then the speed just ramps itself up over time when you are really good at applying force, right.
Speaker 3:So like I always like the, you know, carol Shelby says it doesn't matter how much horsepower you have. So if you don't have enough traction you can't use it, sort of speak right. So you've got to build that engine and have that horsepower, which you've got pretty good horsepower, right. But if you're not getting the torque to the wheels and you don't have enough traction to apply it, it doesn't really matter. So I got to believe you got enough from the engine standpoint, but if you don't have now I'm not saying you don't have power, because we're just using it as a hypothetical here. But if you wanted more power, what we have to do is see are we getting the torque to the wheels right to the club head? And so if we're not, then something from the lower body power section to the mid body power section, through the distal and power section is has leakage. So we got to get rid of that leakage so that we can get the torque to the to the wheels right.
Speaker 3:And then it's like okay, if you're not applying it through the ball, the club end, to the ball properly, then we need more traction. We got to have traction to be able to use it. But a lot of that is just you know, shaft management, your delivery, plane management, your face management. Are you more of a rotator with your forms? Are you more squirted in the arc with less rotation? That's another dynamic that I screen for. Like people largely misunderstand what a stable face is. Now Everybody thinks that delivering the club face, squirt of the arc is a stable face and that if you're a rotator like Adam Scott, you don't have a stable face. Well, that's just not the case, okay, and I mean I was one of the first guys to write about the difference between you know, squirt of the arc and on plane and rolling and all that.
Speaker 2:And hey, I didn't invent it.
Speaker 3:Claude Harman said you can be an open face player or a closed face player. You just got to know how to match everything up. So it was around long before I was coaching, but I documented and I wrote about this stuff. You know, as early as I think 96. And so so I give this example all the time.
Speaker 3:Do you think an airplane when it's doing a rolling maneuver, you know top gun maverick, you know when they say, hey, where is he? I've been here all along, can you see me now? Do you think when he made that maneuver the plane was unstable? No, it was built to be stable as they're making that move. Okay, now you can argue it's more stable if he's just level and flying straight than it is when he made that maneuver. But it certainly wasn't unstable because if it was unstable he would have lost control. So Adam Scott's club face when it's in the downswing on plane and it rolls to square and that rolls back to on plane on the other side, it is not unstable, it's just his pattern. He's doing a rolling pattern. So that's kind of what I see is the traction part of it all.
Speaker 2:Have you spoken to Kelvin Mia Herra before? He's based in Hawaii, just like you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know Kelvin actually pretty well. We never really talked about a lot of things in detail. We both trained long ball champions and stuff when we were there, so and Kelvin's got a very specific way that he thinks this is the best way of doing it. But and he's got a lot of good stuff he would argue that he doesn't care about. Ground reaction forces is how the body moves and you put those forces in the ground and I agree with that. But then I also believe that you need to understand how ground reaction forces work and how your body responds to that as well. I don't believe in ignoring any one part of the system. I think I want to understand every part of the system is thoroughly. It's like that.
Speaker 2:Because he talks about the drive-hold release.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's interesting because when I was writing that you could be a squirt of the arc player, everybody on the planet was saying that was wrong. You got a role. You got to be on playing Right. So, matter of fact, there was a doctor, I think Jeff Mann was named. He literally went out and said I'm going to prove you wrong. And he bought my books and tear him apart and prove me wrong. I never heard back from him, but he literally said it's a law of the flail.
Speaker 2:You got to be rolling it.
Speaker 3:I said wait a second. No, you can actually deliver it just as much power as the square of the arc. And of course now everybody's saying you got to do that, john wrong, and you got to have flex and dust in and you got to do it this way.
Speaker 3:If you do it the other way, it's no good. It's like wait a second, they're both valid. The thing is is you have to understand that your body's a machine and your machine has a certain design, and you got to use your machine the way it's designed. A tow truck will never win a drag race against the hellcat, but a hellcat is not going to be towing semi trucks to the repair shop when it breaks down.
Speaker 3:They're just built differently, so you even know what you're built to do, and you need to utilize it in the most efficient way you can so you can play your best, all with minimizing chances of injuring yourself and maximizing performance. That's what everybody wants.
Speaker 2:You're here to that, jesse tell EA how wrong John Ram's swing is.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, so this was a few weeks ago. I've mentioned it before but I'll mention it again because I think it's hilarious. So I noticed something on Twitter about a criticism from a particular coach that I'm going to remain named let's not have to respect to him and he had made a comment about John Ram's backswing being inside. He said this is something that I wouldn't teach, but how to argue with a two-time major champion? But he said it in a way that was a little bit John Ram is wrong, but he's such a superior athlete he's getting away with it, type thing.
Speaker 1:So Bradley Hughes and I engaged in a little bit of a friendly winner banter about, and Bradley did mention that he is swinging according to his body type. He's swinging to how he can deliver the club the best way that he can, and I think that in conventional instruction today that gets followed by the wayside, unfortunately and I think what you said, ea, thus far in this conversation has been 100% correct and I can definitely identify with what your body type is and to find a pattern that's going to suit your body type because it is going to minimize injury, it is going to maximize performance the question and partly the reason why I started this podcast is to find people like you to explain that, so that if somebody is seeking to become a better player, he or she is not on the island of I don't know what to do, and then you go down the wrong rabbit holes and then you're gone forever, type thing.
Speaker 3:In that inside patterns largely misunderstood. Because imagine you keep your hips and your shoulders dead square to. They call it the target line. I just called it reference line because it's not necessarily the end target.
Speaker 3:If I lift the club inside those lines, then it's two inside. But if my body turns, and so my shoulders have turned, say 60 degrees in the backswing, and when the people say, see, it's two inside, the club's only 45 degrees inside the line, then the club and the arms are actually 15 degrees outside my body. So they're not two inside because they're not inside your body lines and that's only real, true, inside. And this goes to again. There's some patterns like what I call athletic. Sequence is not discussed enough and in my opinion, in the game are you more of a stabilization player or do you apply your forces through these more ballistic, dynamic firing patterns? There's one called horizontals and tilters, I call them, and so when Mac and I talked about my swing, I tilted a lot. This was back in the 80s and that was 91 when I met Mac.
Speaker 3:But in the 80s I'm tilting and everybody else is saying no, you got to load your right side and you got to move to the right. You got to turn level like Valdo you got to hold your levels.
Speaker 3:I mean level, turn, level turn, level turn was being taught back then and a lot of great players did that and played well doing that. But here I come along, I'm a tilt and I'm like, well, some people need a tilt more in their swing, and so well, now tilting is the thing. Everybody's got a tilt. You got it, you got a tilt, and the more you tilt, the less inside the club will go, necessarily. But stacking tilt says you can tilt and you can get it inside the line, but your body's got to turn and you got to have enough depth, so the club's not inside you. So there's another version, right. And so it's funny how when, like when, I said that you could have a square to the art clubface, everybody said I was wrong and you had to roll it, and now everybody's saying you got to have a square to the art clubface and rolling it's wrong. When I was saying it was okay to tilt, everybody said it was wrong to do that. You got to turn more level.
Speaker 2:And now they're all saying turning levels wrong.
Speaker 3:You got to have more tilt right. And then, like Mati Sheinberg, he prefers the more level version. He thinks that people are over tilting in a lot of ways. And so these whole things go. These arguments go back and forth, back and forth. And why can't it just be that some people are built to do it well, more horizontally, and other people are built to do it more with tilts, and then other people are more right in the middle? And where do you live in that continuum? That's what you got to figure out. If their hall of fame is full of tilters and the hall of fame is full of horizontal flares and the hall of fame is full of people in the middle, guess what? They're all valid. The question is, what works best for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's well said, you know. Speaking to referencing Ben again, ben Doyle he said all good swings work. That's right. He always used to say that all good swings work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he recognized all kinds of valid patterns, he just had his preferences when it came to coaching. You know nothing wrong with that. Most coaches do have their preferences and, like I, have my preferences as to where to start. Like, looking at a grip, I don't think you coach the perfect grip. I think Grady grips evolve. So I have starting points that are preferences to me and then I get the grip to develop around that or from that until they get to their best grip. You know sort of speak and depending upon the individual, what they show up on my lesson to you with is kind of tells me which preference I can start with because I want something to start with that they'll be comfortable enough doing that. They can accept and over time they can learn to adjust it to get it where it needs to be.
Speaker 3:But in the old days I saw so many people like the grip is so dogmatic, you have to grip it this way and the student goes away and they're working on it day in and day out and they come to their lesson weekend and week out and finally the teacher is tired of messing around with the grip and they say okay, let's move on. And the student has been through this big traumatic experience of developing this grip and they're like I finally have it Right. Well, two years later, the coach is like, hey, we need to adjust your grip. They're like, well, what went wrong? Did it change? No, no, no, no, we just need to adjust it now. But they were so committed to the grip they already have that. Now they can't change it because they got this emotional tie way back here. You know, they got a subconscious belief about it. They've got this habit that they formed and then they got this emotional attachment to it. You got three barriers they're going to break down to get them to comfortably change the grip now.
Speaker 3:So I don't try to teach people a grip right off the bat. I tell them you need more of this. This is going to be our starting point that your grip is going to evolve over time. You got options. By the way, you already got a cutting grip that's different than your power or your full swing grip, and you may even have a little chipping grip that's different than your cutting grip and your full swing grip. So you know, hey, that's different. You know how to eat with a spoon and eat with a fork. You know you may grip them differently, but you still know how to use a spoon and the fork, so the way you use the tool largely determines how you end up gripping it. So I want them to know the grip could be very pliable and it can develop over time to get to their best grip. I don't want it to be a real dogmatic situation. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1:Hey guys how are we doing on?
Speaker 2:time. I've just got a couple more questions on senior competitions and the mental game. Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 3:Okay, keep going.
Speaker 2:Suggest taking a three minute break, toilet break, and then we'll resume. All right, sounds good. Okay, I'll see you guys. So, ea, earlier you talked about seeing two very similar swings on tour in the early 2000s. They were Adam Scott and Tiger Woods. Clearly, if you were to go down into the weeds you could see that there are some differences, but for the most part, the swing looks almost the same to the naked eye. Jesse and I talked a lot about this. Right, the swing is what you see. The difference between the career records of Adam Scott and Tiger Woods, in our opinion, can be found in the mind, and you mentioned your first coach was Fred Shoemaker. So let's talk a little bit about the mental side of the game that I guess a lot of people are not aware of, especially not aware that you are so deep into the mental side of the game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I had double majors in economics, philosophy and my own psychology, and so obviously I've studied this stuff for a long time. I was a martial artist since I was nine years old, studied Eastern philosophy, meditating since I was that age. And so, fortunate God, hooked up with Fred Shoemaker huge influence on me coaching. Back then I never even thought of being a coach. But in 1986, there was an intergame school and I'd known Fred for a couple of years and he says, hey, you got to come to this intergame school. I said great, drove down to Monterey.
Speaker 3:It was a former Valley Country club, and so they're in there and they're doing the whole intro. And then they get to the end of the intro and they divided all the people there into groups and I wasn't put in any group and I kind of looked up and he just sort of held his hand up to me and then they started naming the coaches for every group and they got to the last group. The name me is the coach of the last group and he kind of put his hand down, you know, like pushing towards the ground sort of thing, telling me just to hold off and he'll talk to me, sort of thing. And so they sent everybody out to warm up. Came over to me says look, he goes.
Speaker 2:You know these drills as good as anybody.
Speaker 3:Just run them through the drills, everything will be great. And then I asked him a couple years later why he did that he said he said I just thought that if you're playing career never worked out for you that you would be a great coach. He's the one that got me started in coaching and I'm really grateful for the inspiration that he sent me. And he recognized that I did it differently than him. They're like I noticed early on in the intergame that people go to intergame schools and there's always almost this mystical moment in intergame schools where, oh, you get this aha moment, you get it and you go away and at last we're a little bit, and then disappears. And then the students were extremely frustrated that they couldn't find it again. And so my framework was and this happens from the mental side as well as from the physical side but I created this outer framework which created like a foundation or a boundary from which it kind of corrals you in a way Okay, like a keeping horses in a corral, so to speak. It doesn't let you go down a rabbit hole so far that you can't get back to that corral. And so you know, if you look at great players, they don't all have everything, all right, but they optimize what they do have. I mean, zach Johnson has optimized what he has and at one point they try to get more distance and he lost it and they were very quick to get back to the old way of doing things and he won again twice, won a major and won another event soon after they got back to what worked for them. So having a framework that you can believe in, that you know it works for you, is very important. So you got to set that framework up first and then from there you start working inwards more and more and more and you create an inner sort of corral and another inner corral and another inner corral, and these things are what keep you on track and help you maintain the skills that you have.
Speaker 3:I don't practice and play much, but I, you know, and I don't necessarily always score as well as I like, and mainly because I don't practice and play as much as I used to, so to speak, but I still do. You know, pretty good job for for not, you know, I finished, I think, last year, and all the senior open events, except for one, I finished in the top 10 I played in. So you know, I'm I'm disappointed because I'm not winning more of it. For a guy that doesn't play very much, I can't play, but I have these frameworks that keep me kind of moving in the right direction, so so, so when we look at the biomechanics part of it if I can do that first or the golf swing part of it, we have the fundamentals or the outer framework and then we work into your swing techniques and in your body mechanics and then how you apply your dynamics, you know, and how you manage those forces. That's sort of the inner circles, you know, working inward.
Speaker 3:So when we look at the intergame, I saw the same thing and I was like you know, people need to have a framework that they can go back to. They can't just try to go to this mystical aha moment, and I think a lot of people that get involved with a lot of mental coaches they get those aha moments and then they can't get back to them, and so I don't actually call it mental coaching. By the way, to me there's the inner game, the mental game, and the physical game. When you're not performing well, the inner, the mental game, is actually the thing that actually is creating the problem. If you're maintaining your physical skills. If you don't have the physical skills developed and you're not maintaining them and you play well, you're just playing well out of talent, you know. And athleticism and that's not going to be consistent, like every golfer that does that long enough realize is it's not sustainable. You know they can't play as consistent as they want. So you know, golfers often say that golf is a mental game and I don't believe that at all.
Speaker 3:Physical swing, physical club, physical golf, physical environment human beings are mental. We are the most mental animal walks of the planet. Now, like people take that and say it's politically incorrect, I don't mean it that way. I just mean that we are the most mental beings that walk the planet. We have this mentality, we've got an ego, we got the subconscious mind, we got the conscious mind, we have an emotional mind, if you want to put it that way, that we attachment, that we have to and we have to deal with all these things.
Speaker 3:And so a lot of golf psychology and mental coaching is what I call a lot of mental gymnastics, and it's designed to sort of. Those gymnastics are designed to almost trick you into the right mode, which is to be more present and be more aware and be more responsive through an awareness state, and so what I'm trying to do is heighten awareness, and this is one great thing I learned from Fred a long time ago that awareness was the key. I did a lot of eyes closed training with Fred, and when I first closed my eyes, the fear came in. And boy, you're afraid. You're going to look funny, you're going to shank when everybody's going to go oh, my God a good player, or they're shanked at what happened him sort of thing.
Speaker 3:We're mental, we have these type of thoughts and fears that come into play and it's just a fact of our existence and so. But I got over that and I was able to just stand there, be centered, trust the swing and click the balls out there, and then Fred would literally ask me things like where's it going? Not things like he on every swing with my eyes goes. He said where's it going? And I wasn't allowed to open my eyes until I told him where I thought it was going. And I got really good at it. I got to the point where I could tell him within three feet of where the ball went, and at that point that was my cue right before I took the club away.
Speaker 3:I'd actually say where's it going and I just respond to that.
Speaker 3:When I said where's it going, I'd have this vision of where it was going and I would just respond and the shots would pretty much go. I averaged 17 greens in regulation for over three and a half years, playing over 350 rounds of golf a year back then, and so my my ability to stay present in the moment was just a lot better back then, and just because I was training it all the time and so. So that's really how do we, how do we get the mind to quiet down and how would we get the mind to accept the intentions that we're setting out to do, so that we can create a program that's designed to direct the action, and then we learn to respond to that program without thinking about it, without the need for control, without the want of a certain outcome, like Brad Faxen talks about putting right Once he sets, he's rehearsed it, he's got the feel, he's got his line, he sets up, he makes the stroke, he goes. It's out of his control.
Speaker 3:He doesn't care about the result at that point, it goes in or doesn't go in. And his go in more often than not because he doesn't care whether it goes in or not. But a lot of people have a hard time doing that Because in this day and age so many people result oriented and you can't blame them at work their their job is, you know, depends on the results. You know, if you're a salesman, your job depends on results. If you got quotas, it depends on the results. There's so many result oriented jobs out there that you live in it all the time. And so Fred Schumacher used to say it's like the medium that you live in. A fish lives in water. He doesn't know he lives in water, or she doesn't know he lives in water until you take them out of water, then they're gasping to save their life, you know, sort of thing.
Speaker 3:And so you don't. Most people don't know what environment they really live in. They don't understand the paradigm of their daily life and they don't understand how, when they take that paradigm out to the golf force, how it actually disrupts the ability to perform really well. So my job is to make people much more aware of that. So I have a whole process I call playing in the flow that I coached, now you know, since the 90s, early 90s. I mean I put it together for myself in college and afterwards and then I started asking different people how, how they did it and what's working for them, and or when I got them doing it really well, okay, what are you aware of? So I started getting feedback from individuals so I could make it kind of express it in a way that goes more across the board.
Speaker 3:But there's things that go into playing in the flow and which is actually the zone experience, and you have to have a committed, programed intention. If you don't have a clear intention, if there's actually white noise and confusion and indecision, there's no way that you can play in the flow, and so we have to have that committed choice. There's things that we call a moment of pause, and a moment of pause is designed to quiet the mind, quiet the emotions, quiet you know the whole mind, body, you know experience, back to a point where you can actually go forward without any conscious interference. And so, before you take your first step towards the ball, after being behind the ball and doing all your programming, you got to have that moment of pause.
Speaker 3:So as you start to walk towards the ball, I call it crossing the bridge. I don't want golfers thinking at all, as we're crossing the bridge, having any individual specific thoughts. As a matter of fact, if you go out to the park and you walk across the bridge, what do you do? You look around and you enjoy the view and you're just taking it all in. So as golfers are going from their programming place, it's like the think box and play box sort of thing. So I call it the go zone over the ball. You know, programming zone, go zone and crossing the bridge. Those are sort of my examples of that. And if I break away from this just for a second, interesting enough the gentleman that actually came up with vision before he wrote quantum golf and Lynn and Pia were part of that program in Sweden but he's the one that came up with it.
Speaker 3:I actually was was introduced to him through the head of education for Swedish PGA and we had a couple of wonderful conversations and, interesting enough, him and I were coming up with a lot of the same things at the same time.
Speaker 3:Now, we had a lot of the same influences through Fred Shoemaker and other, george Leonard and people that were great people in the human performance mode long before we ever got into this. There are a lot of people that were groundbreakers in this type of studies and research. And we came up with the same thing. I wrote a book called the Way of the Golfer and he wrote quantum golf, and we had a lot of the same sort of things in there. We both used what we call swing sayings and holding your finish and a lot of these sort of things, and it was amazing that we both came up with the same thing at the same time, without ever even knowing each other or talking to each other.
Speaker 3:So a lot of people come up with the same things at the same time and so anyway, so just kind of want to throw that out there. He's actually the guy that came up with the vision, whole vision 54 concept, and so we're crossing the bridge and once we cross the bridge we actually have to get situated to the ball and as we're over the ball we got to get our distancing, all that stuff, we get our alignment to the target, we lock in on the target. We have one more moment of pause. We're quieting everything down.
Speaker 3:We revisit the program and we respond to that program and trigger, and this whole thing has to be done in your internal rhythm.
Speaker 3:So your internal rhythm is the rhythm of your neurology when information is going from nerve ending nerve ending and travels into frequency and that's your inner rhythm. I talk fast, I walk fast, I eat fast. I have a quick internal rhythm. It's what I call a three beat rhythm. You know one, two, three, one, two, three. And the way I count one, two, three is faster than other people that are four beaters that count one, two, three, four. So you have to find that internal rhythm, you have to be able to recognize it.
Speaker 3:So that's one of the things I have, people do because when you're like Jack Nicklaus said, he never pulled the trigger until the time was right. And to me that meant two things. Number one, he knew he was on his cadence, so that internal rhythm three cycles, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. You got, I got to pull the trigger on the next one. Well, he's a four beater. He just knew he had to pull a trigger on on the next four, so he knew how to do that. Plus, he knew that he had the mind in the right place so that he was reconnected to the intention, so that he could just respond to the intention. So to me that was the whole not pulling sugar till the time is right, sort of thing. So I've actually count, or I've clocked, a bunch of turporos over the years. Tigers a four beater. He was amazing in this heyday, from the first step towards the ball till he pulled the trigger, there were 16 beats and then he pulled the trigger on the next one. He's a four beater, so that was four cycles of four and putting it was really interesting. Sometimes it'd be 16 pulled on 17, sometimes it'd be 20 pulled on 21, sometimes 24 pulled on 25, sometimes 28 pulled on 29, sometimes 32, saw it all the way up to 36 with him. So he was kind of like jack nicholas in that respect. When it got to his putting, he just stayed there till he knew the time was right from a mind in the right place, commitment, intention, all that and internal rhythm. And then he pulled the trigger and so, uh, jim ferrick's a four beater at the us open at olympic club. He's leading the tournament pretty much all week, leading it on sunday, and he was on his rhythm beautifully all week long. And all of a sudden they get to the 16th tee. The tee was moved up on a tee where he didn't play a practice round. This is what I've heard. And then the group was put on the clock. Well, all of a sudden this swing is on tv. All of a sudden he was out of his internal rhythm. He pulled the trigger in the middle of a of a cycle, he snap hooked it and he ended up losing the tournament, interestingly enough.
Speaker 3:But that internal rhythm is really really important understanding how to operate in your cycle and I mean people talked about this sort of thing before without actually measuring it and getting it down to kind of a science, you know. But there's a science behind this, and and and you could be proven that you will operate best when you're in that internal rhythm. A people just say, hey, great players just sort of find the flow and they're just in it. Well, that's true, but you could be trained to be better at it also, and so there's this whole process of playing in the flow and you can actually practice this whole process and you can get really good at it so that your level of performance is higher, consistently at a higher level, um, than it has been in the past. And and we all want that zone experience, we all love it, um, interesting enough, whenever it happens to this day for me, and I pull a trigger and I respond and I look up, I never think I did it.
Speaker 3:I go that's amazing. There it is again. It just it happens. I'm just part of it. I'm not the conductor, the controller, I'm. I just literally feel like part of it. I've had 10 hole in ones in my career two double eagles and I, and, and six of the 10 hole in ones I literally called them before they happened. I I said look, this is a hole in one location, this is where you landed. It goes in this way and I did it in tournaments. Tell them the guys that that were in the group and they literally went in that way and I don't feel like I did it. I feel like, for whatever reason, I saw it, I imagined it and I had the wherewithal to get up there and just respond, as one time there was a three group weight on the t. We left the 10th green, we get to 11th t.
Speaker 3:There's now we're the third group up there and I, as we walked up there, I go this is a hole in one location and and after it went in, one of the guys looked at me and says dude, you called that thing, and that was like 30 minutes ago, you know, and, and you stood up there and did it and it was like just the ability to, to be present and just let it direct you is really a big part of playing in the flow.
Speaker 2:To me, that's the, that's the magic of the intergame so are you saying that people can go into the zone or in flow as and when they follow your steps? That's very yeah you'll.
Speaker 3:You're there, we're looking at me. Don't do things perfectly, I've got time, but absolutely you can do yourself. I used to shoot arched archery all the time and I'd envision splitting arrows and they would split and not that I again, I don't feel like I did it, I just feel like I imagined it. I had the wherewithal just to, to do whatever the awareness was telling me to do and it would happen. And and um, you know that it's. It's the ability to quiet the conscious mind once you've made a choice in the decision. It's the ability to quiet the conscious mind, create the programming, and a lot of this is getting the subconscious mind on boarded with the programming, because, because we have these subconscious habits, right, we've created these habits and much easier for the subconscious mind just to go grab that old habit and it is to to follow the intention, especially under pressure and there's fear. We got to carry water and all this and, like I was just playing in a tournament in in texas, in the 18th hole, you got to carry it, like you know, 266 over water. There's a left right wind, it's not a very tight area and and you know two guys one guy that was playing really good, that didn't want to mess up, laid up way to the left, turned it into a three-shot hole on purpose. One guy felt like he needed to go for it but he didn't carry it that far consistently but he knew if he got it good he would. He could carry it and he didn't go over. And and I just stood up there and just ripped it over and had eight iron in the green and and the one guy asked me, like you know, this wasn't ideal conditions to carry it over. And I'm like, well, you know, I carry it 270 to 290 right now. So even in a cross one, if it knocked it down, I knew I had enough to get it over, but I knew I didn't have to rip it, I just had to make a good swing.
Speaker 3:So once I convinced myself of that and I could get the subconscious mind on board and I could imagine and all I had to do is respond without interfering with the process. That's the hardest thing most people they have wants, desires, the result, the fear. All that interference gets in the way of just, you know, having commitment, programming it and responding. Most people want to control it from an internal level too. Like you know, we have these, these belief systems in us that have been instilled through our upbringing, all this stuff. Yeah, some people think they need to be in control. It's like you know they're all saying you got to give a control to gain control. But it's really true in this respect if you can really learn how to get the subconscious mind on board and and and just then keep the mind quiet and just respond that's when great things happen, and there's a lot of work to be done in this area.
Speaker 3:Justin, by the way, I was talking to a person who does a lot of work with neurology and neurological pathways and I mean he's a doctor. This is one of his this field and I was talking about how one of the biggest things we're going to see in the future like I get this question a lot by coaches and stuff what's, what's the next great thing you can see coming up in biomechanics or the intergame or what have you and they're what most people aren't. They're not doing enough research. And now is emotional scar tissue, mental scar tissue, so like players that have been great and successful and then they lose it and then they get the scarring, even though they can develop the physical skills back. We hear all the time in practice rounds, they play great and all this. Why doesn't it show up in tournaments? Well, there is a scarring in there and and we have to learn how to reduce the scarring, get past the scarring. There's a lot of different ways of saying that and and there's not enough research in that, in that area, and so, like I do a lot of things in that area with my players that have had scarring to help them get back.
Speaker 3:And like I use the example of top gun you know the talk to me goose moments right, I mean the original movie when he said to talk to me goose to get back into the fight.
Speaker 3:You know that was his way of getting over that scarring that he had, okay, so we all have things like that, like fred shumakers, where's it going? When he asked me, it turned into this queue and I could use that in in pressure filled situations to quiet me down, calm me, get me past that moment and get on. Like, well, we have these things that we can use that help us get past scarring, and the more every time we get past it one more time the scarring gets down. It's like it's like having therapy and the scarring goes away. We work the scar tissue out of there, and so we're going to see a lot more of that in the future of how do we get past this. Because we understand that there's like a process of building myelin, like the neurologic pathways to the certain memories and files and skill sets that are stronger. It's easier to go down that pathway and grab that information.
Speaker 3:But there's also that same sort of process happening with the emotions and the fear and all that, and we have to learn how to strengthen the proper processes so that those other ones sort of fade away in the background and we're going to get better at it because we're already looking into it and to me that's going to be like if I look back and I say if I could be somebody who contributes to the ability to help human beings get past that mental, emotional scarring and move forward in life in a productive manner and live a happy life, whether it's golf or even outside of golf, that will be a real tremendous thing, because there's just not enough of that in life.
Speaker 3:Like how do you get over bad habits and how do you get over traumatic experiences and all this? We only use 10% of our brain or our mind, depending on how you want to say that. We got to open that sucker up and we got to be a lot more productive for people to be more successful and have your lives and to be better performers in whatever they want to perform at greatly.
Speaker 2:So I know both you gentlemen play golf at very high levels, one as an amateur, one as a professional. Can you share with our listeners a little bit about the mental stuff that goes on in the heat of competition?
Speaker 3:Yeah, jesse, give us some of your experiences recently and maybe even something that you'd like to talk about, to learn a little more about.
Speaker 1:Well, since I turned 50, senior golf has been fantastic. I'm in kind of a no man's land because it's technically senior and golf you have to be 55. So there's a lot of terms of that. Accept 50 year olds as senior golfers, so to speak. But it's interesting. I mean I think that I've got a lot more maturity on board. I'm a lot more willing to be accepting of what happens out there and to be more observational. Call that life, call that life experience. Maturity, being a father and being married and all of that stuff. That's all good. The competitive side of it is still very competitive. There's a lot of really good players out there. We're just all getting chronologically a little bit older. But the process is the same. You still have to deal with the nerves and the anxiety that you may have. It's interesting that the scar tissue part has been been brought up. Any sort of trauma, any golf trauma that we've had in the past, left unchecked, it's still going to come up. It's still going to come up unless we deal with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't have a scar tissue. It will reel its head at the most unopportune times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's interesting that it'll come up 100% under the gun. And it'll come up especially when the chips start getting down. As you both know, through the course of a competitive round, you're going to have the ebbs and flows and you are going to have lulls. You're going to have lulls where you're going to hit four or five greens in a row. Within 10 feet you might miss every single one of them. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, like you said, you're a wiser golfer now, so you have more patience in those situations.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and the patience part of it is recognizing. You know, in that scenario, if you're hitting good putts and they're not going in, and as long as you know that you're hitting good putts and you're committed to it and you're not letting fear or any what ifs? You're not time traveling, you're going to be. You know, for me, I'm a heck of a lot more accepting of that.
Speaker 3:I think in those situations minimizing the golf talk conversation in your head in between shots really helps. Yeah, look at nature, look at the rivers and the creeks and the deer, and try to keep your mind on anything but golf. Have a conversation with another player about sports.
Speaker 1:Right. Or you know, if I'm playing a tournament and I have one of my buddies caddying for me, I always play better. I 100% of the time play better because I'm distracted from the mind going wherever I mean left unchecked. The mind is a very uncontrollable. I liken it to a hose that's just going out of control everywhere. Yeah, like Todd.
Speaker 3:Fisher is a friend of mine and we were playing at a tournament, played our practice rounds together, and this guy joined up with us and I have got paired with him for the first two days and we're on the range after the second round and I'm out there practicing doing my thing. Todd's right next to me and he's asking me hey, what did that guy do? Again, you know, was he married, did he have kids, like all this stuff? And finally I go, todd, I said I'm here trying to win a tournament. I don't really know what that guy does.
Speaker 3:He looked at me he goes well, you just spent four and a half hours with him two days in a row. I thought maybe you learned a little something about him. And I learned at that point that that was part of the entertainment, the detachment, part of the game that Todd used when he played, while I'd watch him in turrets and stuff and his caddy would always say, yeah, when he was talking golf he played terribly. But if you could get him on other conversations that have nothing to do with golf and if he was over there especially if he's over there talking to another player about something else is when he was actually playing his best golf.
Speaker 1:I could definitely identify with that. I mean inevitably, if I start talking about football, that's a really good, healthy distraction for me. But it's so fascinating that the mind and what I'm learning is the difference between the parasympathetic and the sympathetic is, if you said something earlier, ea and Justin knows Kathy Hartwood, and we had a conversation with Kathy, who's also a very, very proficient mental coach, about setting an intention before you play. Whatever that intention is, to keep the mind focused on something singular, and ever since I started doing that, it really has paid off. It's really paid massive dividends for me. From the case that I have, my mind now has an anchor, something to lock onto.
Speaker 3:And again, if you haven't talked about this, forgive the people listening an example of an intention that you would be able to stay anchored in throughout a round.
Speaker 1:So great. That's such a great question, a great comment, an intention for me for a round, let's just say I'm building up toward the senior open qualifying, which is happening in about three weeks. So each intention, each intentional round will either include no matter what happens, I'm going to continue to stay, to keep my mind in the present, I'm going to stay in the present moment and whatever methodologies that I need to do to do that, they could be breathwork in for out, for as it works for me every time, that usually is a great anchoring point to really stay and adhere to that intention, to keep that intention. Another intention that I love to use is just to be observant. Just to be observant, a neutral observant. So, for example, I might say if there's nothing good or negative out there, how can I be? How can I maximize my observational skills? And that keeps my mind anchored. And another one is it's something that I took from Bobby Jones I used to get some pretty nasty performance anxiety, but once a few holes would get in, I'd get settled in.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that really drew me to getting settled in back then and now is Bobby Jones was firmly committed to. He thought that the tournament the winner was already determined before he played. So my interpretation of that is that just allowed him to play his game and free him up. So I have since adopted that. Hey, for example, in three weeks we got senior open qualifying. I've got some other USA M qualifying I'm doing, min Am qualifying, I'm doing in various NCGA events here in Northern California. Most likely I will use that mantra going in, the winner has already been decided Interesting enough.
Speaker 3:so, like this idea of creating an anchor and creating attention, it's actually creating a purpose in the game. In other words like Fred Schumacher asked you what's your purpose for playing golf? Like the goal is to score a load, but why do you play golf? Why do you love to play golf? What's?
Speaker 3:your real purpose and like, and every round of golf you have golf and in between golf. So you can make in between golf purposeful and then you can find out what the best purposeful mode for you is. The best purposeful mode for you is to be more as present as possible and an observer as much as possible, and that keeps you out of the mentality that creates the distractions and the interferences. Then it's also productive from a performance standpoint. So it's the best of both worlds. You get your cake and get it to you sort of thing, right. So yeah, so that's actually really good. You made two really great observer observations you set over and over again, which is very important and acceptance. You haven't said it as much but you said it a few times. And there's pre-acceptance, which now you're describing with the Bobby Jones story. We need to have acceptance. We need pre-acceptance before we go out, before we act, before we engage, and we need acceptance after the swing is completed, after we've assessed the situation. We just have to accept whatever happened and showed up, showed up, we got to put it behind us and we have to move on. So there's these two types of acceptance that we're always sort of juggling, that pre-acceptance and the after acceptance. And acceptance is a huge part of being able to keep yourself moving in the flow, keeping yourself in the stream, so to speak. So you're not swimming upstream, you're going with the flow and being an observer again, instead of trying to be the director, the conductor that helps settle the wants and the desires and the determinations that become overbearing and they get too strong and they don't allow you to be a part of the process. So acceptance allows you to be a part of the process. Who's to say that the quality of the golf club and the loft and the length and the line and the club video doesn't have as much to do as your good shots, as you do? I'm a golfing the kingdom.
Speaker 3:There's the point where they go out with the feathery and the dashing spoon I think they called it right, the old Shalely and he makes a swing and they go up to the green and they can't find the ball. He's all distraught you know, samus, like Duff's going to kill me, sort of thing and they look and the ball was in the hall and what he said. He said he looks at the bathroom spoon. He says you did it, you know, and you saved my life, sort of thing for not losing that feathery right. He gave credit to the, to the bathroom spoon, shalely, you know it wasn't him Interesting right. So we have to have a little bit of this, that, that other things you know, the wind and the club and the awareness and all that allows us to, to be a part of the, the whole process in a way that we can play great.
Speaker 1:Yep, I love it. I absolutely love it. I love this conversation. I love everything about it. You all, you know, talk about a holistic. I mean, I think we've covered pretty much everything from a holistic standpoint and this is something that Justin and I talk about quite a bit with them. When you have, when you have people that want to get better, I think it's it's such an advantage to have a coach that that can really go to all these different points. And you know, consequently, if you, if you look at the game of golf from a holistic sense it's not just golf swing from from every aspect, you're going to just improve your life overall.
Speaker 3:You're going to be a better human being. When you step on the golf course, you're not escaping your life. You're in your life, it's a part of your life. Yeah, you know golf is golf is life or golf in the kingdom. Golf is a microcosm of life.
Speaker 3:You know again like you said, it shows in another way you kind of alluded to, but it shows the. It shows our, our, you know dark sides as well as our, our bright sides. It shows our failures, our weaknesses, as much as our strength, and it and a lot of times I have students all the time that come to lesson and they go up. You did it again. You shed light on my, my weakness, you know, and I'm like, well, yeah, if you want to get stronger, we got to know what the weaknesses and we got to improve it right.
Speaker 1:That's right and I'll, and I'll say one more thing. I'll say one more vulnerable intention, which is something that I just started doing now. I'm also a meditator. I've been meditating now for a couple of years regularly, and one of the things that I decided in January to do this year in my tournament schedule was after every competitive round. I'm going to set another intention of showing me my shadow side and, interestingly enough, my shadow side has everything to do with my mentality and very little to do with my swing motion or my punning or my shipping. I think that once you get to a certain level playing this game, I don't think it's so much golf swing as much. That's right, you know it's.
Speaker 3:People talk about the inner demons, right.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that there's a lot. There's a. I know that I still have them, but one of the beautiful things about the game of golf and I want people to embrace this is that it's going to show you what you need to work on.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mentally, spiritually, emotionally, and you know, if you, if you have it and it seems like champions to me have those things in spades where they look at challenges as challenges, is something to be accomplished, right, not not as something that's a detriment to who they are. You know, if you shoot 75 or 80, it doesn't mean that you're a bad person. That's right, maybe. Maybe take a look at some of your thoughts prior to pulling the trigger, right. If you have anything that says, don't, your brain doesn't know the difference, it's going to go. Ok, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 3:I think that's really true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like one of the books I wrote is called New Horizons, golf of Physical, mental, inner Renaissance, and there's a chapter dedicated to French you make. Or there's a chapter dedicated to golf in the King Kingdom. Just because what you're saying is very true, you know that that's all part of it. Interestingly enough, you'd say the shadow side. So I have three different story books that I'm writing that I'll probably get them finished after I retire, when I'm old enough, I live long enough. But one of them is called Out of the Shadows and the other one's called Fairways to Eternity.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 3:So they deal with different poles of learning and life. And, of course, out of the Shadows is the dark, demon side that always seems to get us at the wrong time. And how do we get ourselves out of the shadows and into the light so that we actually because when we're playing best, we don't have those fears and those doubts and those uncertainties? We're like Star Wars, it's the Force. The Force is with you, sort of light side, not the dark side. I mean all these analogies and stuff. I'm a movie goer, if you haven't noticed. I love movies, but they, this stuff comes up in movies all the time because it's, it's part of life, it's hard.
Speaker 3:We actually do, just being expressed in a very creative manner, so, but that's certainly part of it. We got to learn you know what's happening on the shadow side of us. What do we do for the light? How do we live in the light more often so that we can perform at our best? And that's all part of the game.
Speaker 1:Amen to that, Justin. Any final thoughts?
Speaker 2:my friend, oh, of course. Can you share with our listeners about your latest project and where it might be able to get in touch with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I had an app that was done with SwingU, making your golf simple and then SwingU decided that they weren't going to do any of the coaching apps anymore. So we've, you know, joss Thanders and I and a bunch of people had had them, so we all had to kind of pick our own way to how we're going to provide that content to people. So I'm actually creating a website which is makingyourgolfsimplecom. The website is up as far as the front of the website is concerned, so you can go there and kind of see what's going to be offered and you can actually sign up for a newsletter there. As soon as the website launches, we'll start sending out newsletters and if you sign up for it, then you'll know exactly when the member side of it has launched.
Speaker 3:There's eight different modules that we call on the website. You can actually it's a subscription site to get into the content, but you can actually sign up for one price and get everything, and there's going to be a form in there for interaction and all that sort of stuff, and there'll be eventually a bonus library in there that you'll have access to as well, but you can sign up for inside the video library. You can sign up just for different parts of it. So you know, the first one's what I call essential core lessons. There's 50 videos and they're 10 on putting, 10 on around the green, 10 on wedge plate, 10 on the basic plane, 10 on finishing the swing, which is full swings. There's what I call the golf swing cornerstones. So that's really sort of the foundation for great ball striking. There's a section I call understanding your lefts and your right and your ball flight. So I explain it basically this way If you look up and your shots are curving to the left, your left influences in your golf swing stronger than your rights.
Speaker 3:If the ball is going to the right, your right influences are stronger than your left and that the ball is going in the intended window, then they're complimenting each other. You know, obviously, if it's a draw for right handers, your lefts are a little stronger than your rights. It's a fade, your rights are a little stronger than the left, but they're complimenting each other. And I describe how there's two lefts and two rights. You know, great ball strikers manage these two lefts and two rights. They don't play it straight, but they got two lefts and two rights and when they do it perfectly, it goes straight, which only happens every now and then. That's why people call it a unicorn.
Speaker 1:And there's a section on fundamentals.
Speaker 3:There's literally a section on playing in the flow. There's a section with what I call the nine basic swing flaws describing all that. And then I have another section on your swing which is all the Bible handful stuff that I did from sequence of one year swing stuff Mike and I have that I were doing together with last week dynamics, and then the rest of the stuff that I had done on my own. I never really introduced them by swing dynamic, so that stuff is all in the owner swing section of the module so should be launched soon. I was told this week I would actually get a preview of everything on the inside, and so hopefully we will have that launched within the next week or so.
Speaker 1:Awesome. And then you're on all the socials, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so EA Tishler and EA Tishler golf on Instagram. There's a bio swing dynamics on Instagram. Yeah, add EA Tishler on Twitter. Edward A Tishler on Facebook. There's also some. My my normal website is new horizons golf dot com. There's a new horizons golf approach page on on Facebook also. So funny story about my new horizons golf dot com website. It was originally done through Yahoo. I did it when the internet started. I didn't change it all these years, so it was really outdated. And then they actually shut down the site builder that you're able to use to do it and I thought I had to the end of the year to change it. I was wrong. I guess I misread the email that came in.
Speaker 3:So I created a new website. It doesn't have everything on it, but some of those old pages are still existing because I cannot get them off the internet and so. But eventually the new website will reproduce all those pages and put it in an updated form. So if you go to new horizons golf dot com, you may get the new one, or if you Google EA Tishler or a new horizons golf approach, you may get to some of the old pages as well. Anybody interested in any of my ebooks, they can just send me a message.
Speaker 3:They can get the website. Send me a message and or send it through any other social media outlets and I can actually get you to a page where you can pay through PayPal for the ebooks as well. So eventually they'll be. We're going to be launching a new web store later this year which will have all my ropes and swing waffles and ebooks and all that's available. And then I have one other project that I don't know if I talked about this with Justin or not, but we will be doing a new horizons golf or website and on that website you'll actually be able to purchase each individual ebook that I have, and so you'll get the download with that. But there'll also be videos showing all the drills that are in the books and showing kind of expanded information about the drills that are in each of the books. So that'll be available sometime in the next year as well.
Speaker 3:That's cool, awesome.
Speaker 2:So I've got to ask one last question when is Volume 4 going to be published?
Speaker 3:So I was planning on actually finishing that this winter and then this whole, because I had the app going and then the whole app got shut down and then I really have been doing a lot of work to get all the information to the new website builders. It's been very time consuming, unfortunately, and I you know June, july, august, september I won't really have any time. So my commitment now is to finish Volume 4 next winter Also. I mean, I got six books in the works and there's another one called Secrets of Playing your Best Golf and that has to do with all the intergame stuff and that one's been about 70% completed and the Volume 4 has been about 80% completed, so I ought to be able to finish those next winter and get those two books out I got.
Speaker 3:People have been asking me for years because they knew that I've actually sent the copies of what I had out to people in the past because they just wanted to see what I had even though it wasn't done, and then I stopped doing that just because I just don't want the unfinished product out there. But those are mostly close friends and stuff like that. So I'll hopefully get those two done over the winter coming up this 2023 to 24 winter and that's my commitment anyway.
Speaker 2:Okay, we look forward to that. Thanks so much for your time, ea and Jesse. It was awesome to interview one of the top instructors in the world with you. Well thank you.
Speaker 3:I really appreciate being on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks EA and thanks Justin and EA. We'd probably love to have you on sometime in the near future, my friend yeah, this is great.
Speaker 3:And now that I know you're in Monterey, I'm only here through. I leave again on Saturday, but I may come back for three or four days in July. We need to hook up in person and maybe go play golf.
Speaker 1:Definitely.
Speaker 3:We've got the Deuce Club membership so we can go down to, you know.
Speaker 1:The old Del Monte.
Speaker 3:And there you go.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to definitely hit you up on it Sounds good, Okay, Jens? Cheers and thank you again.
Speaker 3:Okay, thank you, bye.