Unlocking Your Golf Potential Beyond the Physical with EA Tischler

Unlock the secrets of your mind's influence on the fairways as we welcome the illustrious golf coach EA Tischler to share his game-changing insights on mental game mastery. Through engaging discussions, EA, a philosopher of the greens with deep knowledge of biomechanics, unveils the potent blend of mental fortitude and body mechanics that can send your golf game soaring. Discover the transformative power of syncing conscious goals with the subconscious drive, and learn how to construct a pre-shot ritual that primes you for success with every swing.

Golf isn't just a physical challenge—it's a rhythmic dance of the mind and body, where cadence and acceptance play starring roles. EA guides us through the process of finding your unique tempo and how this beat can empower your game, while also delving into the importance of making peace with the outcome of each shot. He imparts the wisdom of using swing thoughts and mental imagery as tools to not only refine your swing but to also maintain focus and timing, ensuring you maintain control rather than being ensnared by the mechanics.

In the realm of professional golf, emotional resilience is just as crucial as skill, if not more. EA offers a candid look at the often-overlooked aspect of mental scarring and how athletes can navigate past failures to regain confidence. He also emphasizes the pivotal role of personalized coaching in an age where sports training technology is rapidly evolving. This episode isn't just for the avid golfer; it's a treasure trove of strategies and philosophies that can enhance your approach to any of life's complexities, ensuring you leave equipped with a fortified mental game both on and off the course.

Thank you EA for graciously sharing your life’s work with us ! To find EA, please go to www.newhorizonsgolf.com
 
To find Justin, please email justin@elitegolfswing.com
To find Jesse, please email jesse@flaghuntersgolf.com

Thank you to TaylorMade and Adidas for their support as always

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone, this is Jesse Perryman of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast, welcoming all of you for another great week along with Justin. Thanks for tuning in. This week on the pod we've got none other than EA Tischler. Ea is one of my favorite guys in golf, one of my absolute favorites. He's been on the pod a couple of times before. I don't need to really give too deep of an introduction, but just in case, he is the director of instruction for Olympia Fields CC in Chicago and I know he spends half the year here in California and he has written multiple books. He is what you would say a multi-disciplined golf teacher. We like to say holistic. Justin and I do, and in this episode we go deep into the subconscious, we go deep into the psyche, we go deep into trying to find what the intangibles are and using those intangibles to our advantage by trying to be in the present moment. And that's a lifetime conversation. Well, this is one of my favorite hours with EA. Ea is great. I'll make sure to put all the pertinent links and resources for EA and how to get a hold of him, and a shout out thanks to TaylorMade and Adidas for their incredible support and thanks to you for tuning in and listening. Cheers everyone and enjoy this episode. It's pretty dang good.

Speaker 1: 1:47

Hello and welcome once again to another edition of the Flag Owners Golf Podcast. My name is Jesse Perryman. I am your host, along with my brother from another, tischler. Ea Tischler is one of the guys, one of the great teachers, leaders in golf and in learning that Justin and I talk about with regularity. We're both impacted by his works and his tireless commitment to uncover great ways for those of us who want to play this game at a high level to learn, and is definitely one of the great facilitators of learning and paradigm shifting in golf instruction and in the golf instruction space. So, justin, thanks for coming on, pal, and EA, once again, thank you for coming on. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 2:44

Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks, thanks, EA. Thanks, jesse. So, ea, most people regard you as a highly technical coach and you are certainly someone of the place in the top five of golf coaches in the world, but what most people don't realize is that you are also a highly competent mental game coach. Could you talk us through your mental game background and your heritage, so to speak?

Speaker 2: 3:12

Yeah, absolutely. So I was really fortunate. When I got out of high school I started working at a golf course the head pro there was good friends with a gentleman named Fred Shoemaker, who you've interviewed and a lot of people know. Fred basically took it upon himself to be my mentor, even though I was going to him for lessons. He really imparted a lot of knowledge on me as far as coaching was concerned and, as a matter of fact, the very first time I did any coaching, he had told me I had to go to an intergame school, which he was doing intergame schools with Timothy Galloway at the time, down in Monterey, and I said, okay, sure. So I showed up and, long story short, they made me a coach and I didn't know what was going to happen. And he took me aside and he said hey, you know how to do all the drills, just run them through all the drills and everything's going to be fine. And it worked out wonderfully. And I asked him a few years later why he did that and he simply said he said I just thought that if your playing career didn't work out for you, that you'd be a great coach someday, and so that was where it really sort of started.

Speaker 2: 4:21

I'd always been interested in philosophy, psychology, um, growing up, as a matter of fact, and I was a martial artist. I started Eastern uh meditations at the age of nine and I studied a lot of Eastern philosophy growing up. My mom recognized when I was young I didn't really like reading. I was really good at math. I didn't like reading but I would read things that I was very interested in. So I was interested in fitness and kinesiology, the whole physical side of it, which is where my sort of physical background in biomechanics started.

Speaker 2: 4:55

But I love philosophy and psychology so I would read a lot of stuff in that Early, on books like the Power of the Subconscious Mind and stuff like that, stuff by guys like George Leonard who was in the lineage from Fred Shoemaker back to Michael Murphy who developed in the kingdom and the Esalen Institute, and then you know, back to guys like George Leonard, psychology and college as well. But I really believe that the power of the subconscious mind and the ability for us to tap into our inner skills was really the secret to performance. I saw it in the martial arts, I saw it in other sports. I shot archery. I did it in archery. I shot at a very high level. So I really believe that that was sort of the key to opening up our ability to perform at the highest level.

Speaker 3: 5:43

You said archery. There is a guy, a German philosopher, Eugene Herrigel.

Speaker 2: 5:49

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:50

I bet you've read his book before.

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, zen and the Art of Archery, wonderful book, great book.

Speaker 3: 5:56

How dangerous are you, EA, If I tried to mug you? How badly would I end up If?

Speaker 2: 6:03

I tried to mug you, how badly would I end up? Luckily, I've never had to take it to any sort of a lethal level. I've been able to protect myself everywhere I've been. I walked through Hong Kong one day. I was there with an expat. I went down by the. He lived right above the zoo and I went down to the zoo and I walked through this neighborhood and later on day he asked me where I went that day and I told him he went where he goes. People disappear over there all the time I go. Well, nobody bothered me.

Speaker 1: 6:33

So I don't know about how I presence.

Speaker 2: 6:35

I handle myself, but I've been trained in a few different martial arts and lucky to meet some gentlemen that were. One was an ex Navy SEAL and one trained, actually, green Berets hand-to-hand combat, so but yeah, the mental side of it is really, to me, where it's at your ability to be aware. A lot of times, just being aware of your surroundings and knowing what's going on around you, things don't happen because people just don't approach you. In a way they would approach somebody else that's not paying attention.

Speaker 3: 7:05

So in street fighting, my coach used to say this right, If there are rules, it's a sport, that's right. If there are no rules, it's a fight. Now, when we are out there playing in a tournament, if you don't have rules for your mind, you're going to lose the fight every time. Don't have rules for your mind, you're going to lose the fight every time. So can you talk a little bit about the importance of a routine and what it actually does for us, as opposed to the traditional explanation? Or you're going to check the wind, you're going to check the light, but it's a little bit more than just checking the light. It does something to the brain. Can you talk us through that?

Speaker 2: 7:52

Yeah. So that's a great point. There needs to be, in my opinion there needs to be a framework from which we sort of anchor ourselves in what we do. And even like the idea there's no rules in a street fight that means anything's game to protect yourself. It doesn't mean you had no rules preparing yourself. You didn't have a program or format or a framework to prepare yourself for those situations you might get in.

Speaker 2: 8:10

So you know, preparation, as Nicholas said, is 90% of the battle and a lot of times having a routine allows you to get a lot of things done from a very grounded and foundational level, like, for example, acceptance. There needs to be pre-acceptance and there needs to be post-acceptance. You know, with every shot that we play, if you don't have pre-acceptance going in, there's going to be doubts, there's going to be uncertainties, it's going to put your whole routine on edge. If you don't have acceptance afterwards, then the time you spend in between shots is going to be spent in rumination and frustration and the type of mental, habitual conversations that get us on the negative side of the process instead of the positive side. So having a structured routine is something that helps you stay grounded in what you're doing. A lot of people see it as it's sort of a comfort zone. It's sort of a home base for them where, when they're going through that routine, they feel comfortable and competent in what they're doing. So it will eliminate a lot of the extraneous spots that may come in that may distract you. So it's really important just to have a routine.

Speaker 2: 9:22

Now, how structured is your routine is different from player to player. Tiger Woods, at his height, had a very structured routine. Jay Haas you can almost not notice his routine, but the reality is the last four beats of his routine were almost always the same, so he could, when he was walking up to the ball, he could walk back, stop, kind of drop to the side, look over, do all this stuff. But if he just got himself back to the ball where he could execute those last two beats in his cycle properly, then that allowed him to execute really well. And what I found is that within the routine there's certain things you need to do so that you can get to your flow experience and so that you can perform as good as possible. And so understanding those things that go into the routine are important, but the framework of the routine is what grounds you in your ability to access everything else that you need to access so that you can get to that flow experience.

Speaker 3: 10:24

So what constitutes a good routine? What are the secret ingredients?

Speaker 2: 10:30

Yeah. So that's obviously up to debate depending upon your preferences, but for me it starts with number one assessing the situation really well. You have to be able to assess the lie, assess the wind, assess the yardage, assess what trajectory is needed. So the more skills you have and the ability to assess the situation based upon your skill sets, the more of a committed choice you can make Once you've made that assessment. You have to make a committed choice. If you do not have a committed choice, if there's questions or doubts about your choice somewhere throughout that routine, there's going to be a breakdown. There's going to be unless you just somehow get through it by luck. More often than not, it's going to break down if you do not have a committed choice, and so that's really really important. I think most people fail to get past that step, and if you can't get past that step, you know you're not going to play great golf. Tournament players do that really really well. They assess the situation really well and they make a committed choice really really well based upon their skill sets, how they're feeling in the moment. You know that sort of thing, and so that's another important part of the routine is being able to assess yourself in the moment, based upon your skill sets, how you're feeling, adrenaline levels, all that. What club selection, for example, is going to work best for you. I'm a little tight today. The ball's not going to go as far. Okay, I got to just say I need one more club and I need to accept that because I'm tight today or I'm low on energy today, stuff like that. So being able to assess that situation and make a really committed choice, one that you know is the best choice for you, is what gets you off to a good start in the routine From there.

Speaker 2: 12:16

And a lot of times, like in Vision 54, they call that the think box and then we're going to go to the play box. So for me, that's the programming zone. Back behind the ball, you do your assessments, you make your choices. That's the programming zone. So once you've made the choice, to me you have to program it really really well. There has to be a meeting of the minds, between the conscious and the subconscious, to get the level of acceptance and commitment up to a point where you can just walk through your routine and execute without questioning or thinking about it. And that's another place where I think people are really weakened. They don't know how to go about programming their intention to a point where they can literally walk the walk as they're going through their routine From there. It's a little bit of a Jump in if you have any questions, because my process for the routine is like there's at least seven things that have to happen, so it takes a little bit to get through this.

Speaker 3: 13:08

You keep going, EA. I'm taking notes. I'll follow up with questions after you're done.

Speaker 2: 13:13

So as you begin to leave that programming zone, that's what I call crossing the bridge.

Speaker 2: 13:19

That's when you're walking from the programming zone up to the ball location, and I like people to just have a clear mind as they're crossing the bridge, no thoughts about anything at all. Enjoy the walk Like if you go out in the park and you walk across the bridge. I hope you just are enjoying the nature around you, because that's part of the reasons for walking and crossing the bridge. So you're just crossing that bridge and once you get up to the ball, then you have to situate yourself to the ball and this is where having habits, being prepared, you know the way that you address your ball. I often tell my players you know, one of the most important things when you're addressing the ball is setting up for success and knowing what that means for you Having dynamic posture, knowing your ball position. You know all that sort of stuff needs to be second nature at this point. So you have to train these skills so you don't have to think about this stuff when you're, when you're up there. I learned a lot of that type of stuff through gymnastics. I was a gymnast growing up. I was a martial artist. You in your routines and in your training. You had to build the preparation so when it became time to act, you could respond. So golf can become a more responsive game if you've really prepared yourself well, instead of it being. You know, most people think it's not a responsive game. It's not like other sports, because the ball is not moving. But in tennis you respond to the fact that the ball can only bounce once. You respond to I need to serve it in the small box. If I'm playing singles, there's a certain serve it in the small box. If I'm playing singles, there's a certain box I can return it in. If I'm playing doubles, I get a little bigger box. You respond to a lot of things beyond just the moving ball. In sports, situational and baseball. If a center fielder catches the ball, where does he throw it? It's all based upon the situation who's on first or second or what? Have you you right? So there's a lot of things that are situational, that we respond to, and I think golf can become much more response, uh, responsive if you prepare yourself this way.

Speaker 2: 15:11

So once you've set up for success, um, you actually have to get yourself settled into this process of quieting your mind, widening your eyes know. Really getting your mind in the right place so you can respond to the programmed intention, and being able to tap into that in such a way that you literally just respond and ride it out, is really the key. And then during the swing, once your emotion is, you have to ride it out, as I like to say. You stay on the surfboard and people ask me well, where did that come from, if you've ever been surfing? And you know and you learn to surf, and at some point you're doing pretty well and you're paddling and you get up on a wave and all of a sudden that wave looks a little bigger than you've seen in the past and you either go with it and you stay on the surfboard and ride it out, or your mind gets in the way and over the board you go. So you want to be able to go with it in the flow and stay on the surfboard and ride it all the way out.

Speaker 2: 16:09

And one of the last keys to this is that you need to be in your internal rhythm as you do this. So we all have an internal rhythm. It's the rhythm of our neurology. When information goes from nerve ending to nerve ending, it travels in a certain frequency. To make it simple, I like to tell people like I walk fast, I talk fast, I eat fast. I'm a three beater. My internal rhythm is one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. That's just what it is.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Other people are four beaters, like Tiger and Jim Furyk, and if you're not maintaining your cadence throughout your routine, things go off. So, like Jim Furyk I forget what year it was at Olympic Club was leaving the US Open and he got to. I think it was 16. Their group got put on the clock at that point in time. They moved the tees up. That day. For some reason he didn't take a practice round from that tee, I believe.

Speaker 2: 17:03

And all week long he's a four beater and I think you can count him through a cycle One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four, one, two, three, four. One, two, three, four and then on the next one he would pull the trigger. I mean, he was like on the mark all week long. Well, on that particular swing he pulled the trigger in the middle of the cycle and he hooked it up in the trees and he ended up not winning the tournament. Interestingly enough, tiger was like clockwork 16 beats, pull the trigger on full swings forever For some reason. In putting it would be 20, pull the trigger on 21, 24,. Pull the trigger on 25, 28, pull the trigger on 29,. All the way up to I've seen 36, pull the trigger on 37. Pull the trigger on 29,. All the way up to I've seen 36, pull the trigger on 37. So it's like he kind of knew if he wasn't ready he could just wait for another cycle before he pulled the trigger. And Jack Nicklaus actually said he never pulled the trigger till the time was right and I believe that was partly him getting his mind in the right place, partly him managing his inner cadence, just knowing it was he's on cycle when it was time to pull the trigger.

Speaker 2: 18:06

So understanding those aspects throughout your routine help you stay in the flow and be more reactive so that you can respond to what's going on. And Nicholas actually describes on 17 at Pebble Beach I believe it was in 72, he played that one iron, that famous one iron where the shot hit the flag stick and stop, you know, like a foot or two. And he's asked by reporters was that one of the greatest swings you've ever made in a championship golf? And he says absolutely not. He says.

Speaker 2: 18:35

During the backswing I knew I was out of position and I just allowed myself to swing back to the target and the shot went to the target and hit the target. Interestingly enough, another reporter will ask him is that one of the greatest shots you ever played in championship golf? And he'll say absolutely. I knew I was out of position. In the backswing, I allowed myself to adjust and swing back to the target and it went to the target. So he recognized the difference between a great swing and a great shot and he recognized his ability to adjust in the flow, like that's how well we can adjust when we're present and aware and in the flow, compared to trying to think our way through something.

Speaker 3: 19:12

So how can our listeners identify our own personal cadence or tempo? You used the term three-beater and four-beater.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Yeah, so what I do is I watch players as they're going through the routine and I start a count and I just keep counting, I keep noticing when certain things happen and I notice when they swing really well where things happen, and then I identify that for them and I usually start with the last. The last cycle before you pull a trigger is the most important and um, and so you can actually just do that for yourself. Literally, you can like just when you think the time is right to count one, like put the club behind the ball, count one, shuffle your feet, count two, look at the target, count three, look back at the ball, count four and then on the next beat, pull the trigger. You'd be a four beat or something like that. And so, like, over the ball, I literally I don't know why I say it this way, but I go one, two, one, two, one, two, three. Now I don't know why I do one, pause two, one, pause two and then one, two, three and go. But I just noticed I did that and I was in the flow more often when I did that. That's kind of how I recognized that I was a three beater, because I literally say that before every shot, whether I'm putting or driving or any shot. I am saying those things to me. Now some people to me it's just a song and dance, so it doesn't distract me. If anything, it just distracts me from being distracted.

Speaker 2: 20:37

And some people prefer to know the things that they need to do. Like you know, put the club on the ground, look at the target, shuffle your feet, look at the ball and go like they just know the four things or the five things or the three things that they need to do in that last cycle. You can kind of tell when you talk to people I mean people say I talk fast, I walk fast, I eat fast they recognize that you know people that are super slow, like I've only found one person that was really more longer than a five beater and interestingly enough she was to her, it was five beats but she counted those five beats super slow and I count them faster. So I always find people are either three, four or five that seems to be the general consensus to 99% of people fall into that range.

Speaker 2: 21:23

You can actually just start to count it for yourself and see which of those counts do you feel like you're never rushed and you're never taking too much time. So for me, if I counted to four before I went, I would feel like I'm taking too much time. If I counted two and went, I would feel like I'm rushed. So if you can just use those counts three, four or five test it out and find out what sort of cadence for you, the way you count it too, it's not the way somebody else counts it, it's the way you count it which one of those seems to work best for you, and then start looking for your whole cycle to do that. So, for example, when I start crossing the bridge, it literally takes me three beats to get to the ball location, and then it takes me three beats to turn, look at the ball and get myself situated at the ball location, and then I can start to go down to the last three cycles before I pull the trigger.

Speaker 3: 22:19

Great, so you mentioned a couple of things that was of great interest to me, as well as to our listeners, I am sure. It's this thing about not being able to bring our range game to the golf course, and then you use words like acceptance and breakdown. So let's start with acceptance. Eugene Harigal described it as letting the arrow release where you surrender. How does acceptance affect the mind getting in and out of the way of execution, and how important is acceptance to playing in a flow state?

Speaker 2: 23:04

Yeah, so acceptance is sort of the glue that keeps it all together in that respect, in the sense that if you have total belief in acceptance is what you're doing, you won't question what you're doing. You have total belief and acceptance is what you're doing, you won't question what you're doing. And questioning yourself in the moment of sport is one of the things that disrupts performance more than anything else. So, like Ruth Lee said, everything that you've learned is meant to be forgotten, so that in the moment you can react. And so I'm paraphrasing I don't remember if I remember that quote exactly, but it's very close to that and that's what training is about. It doesn't matter if you look at Navy SEALs or anybody in the Special Forces, or firemen or policemen. It's all about train, train, train, train, train, so you could depend upon your training when the moment shows up. And throughout that training is where you start to learn, to have a level of acceptance in your abilities and your skills and your knowledge of the situation. You have stronger beliefs in yourself when you get to that level of acceptance, and that's what sort of holds everything together. And something else came to mind a minute ago, but just get me, but we'll probably come back up, so understanding that if you don't accept what you're doing, it's going to be able really hard to access what you need to access, to do what you need to do. But if you have a level of acceptance that there's no questions or doubts in what you're doing, then accessing what you need to access if you've already trained those skills and they're there is very easy to do. So often I find that people that train on the driving range and they actually I see people develop skills all the time.

Speaker 2: 24:47

I have a really good friend in California who I trained for like seven years and for seven years he would tell me that his swing would break down on Sunday on the back nine. And I'm like, before I met him he never won an amateur event and he never was in the final group of an event. And all of a sudden he's in the final group all the time. But it's a swing that breaks down on the back nine on Sunday, right, and for seven years I was trying to convince him it has nothing to do with your swing at this point. It's all about your routine, your inner game, your acceptance of how good you are and your ability to get the job done and you don't accept it. Before you show up on Sunday. You don't accept that you're in a place where you're ready to win. He couldn't accept that he was ready to win so he would never win.

Speaker 2: 25:37

When he finally got that, he started winning more often and he literally told me yeah, I wasted seven years telling you it was my swing, when I really had to get a stronger level of acceptance and that really comes from the relationship that you have between your conscious mind and your subconscious mind. Most people have a black hole of awareness between the conscious and subconscious. They don't have an open line of communication. People think I'm crazy, but I talk to my subconscious mind all day. I bring it into the conversation. I believe there needs to be a meeting of the minds.

Speaker 3: 26:13

We're going to talk about the subconscious training you shared with us before the episode. But just to recap what you just said in the last five minutes without acceptance, there will be no accessing all the movement patterns that we've trained and that will lead to a breakdown in performance on the golf course.

Speaker 2: 26:34

Yeah. So we have to realize that we have a lot of, but accessing skills is habit-based. It's largely dependent upon the habitual patterns that we've developed. Now we can talk about myelination and myelinating those neurological pathways to be able to access the information and all that. We can talk about myelination and myelinating those neurological pathways to be able to access the information and all that, but if you still, if you have bad habits, if you have not created good habits, you know, for accessing what you want to access, then the bad habits will come in, or just a different habit. We call it a bad habit. It's just a different habit. It's a habit the subconscious mind is more familiar with and the subconscious mind will go ahead and grab that pattern ahead of the new pattern, maybe that you've been working on.

Speaker 2: 27:20

And so there's three laws of learning that we like to talk about Law of primacy, law of frequency and the law of recency. So the law of primacy are the very first things you've learned about the game. So if, like you, were a young kid and it was beat into your head, keep your head down, keep your eyes on the ball, and that's something you really don't want to do. You know, even though we're told that all the time, under under duress, under pressure, out on the golf course, you may overdo that. I call it running home to mama, because it's the first thing that you learned right, and so a lot of times we run home to mama under pressure. Unfortunately, those things that we learned in that primacy stage will never go away. They're in the memory banks and if you don't have a way to convince the subconscious mind to grab a different skill under duress, it's going to go run home to mama. Then we have the law of frequency the things that you've done most frequently in the game. So think of if you had bad habits for a really, really long time. How are you going to just replace those bad habits? There's millions upon millions or hundreds of millions of data points of that bad habit in your memory banks that your subconscious mind has ran to and accessed a lot of time, because in the past you told it you wanted to do it, even though it really wasn't the thing that you really wanted, but that's just all you knew at the time. So now you meet somebody new and they want you to learn something new. So you're out practicing, you're doing new drills and working on new skills. Well, those are the frequency. I mean recency, those are the things you've done most recently. Well, imagine you have two files one file full of data points of the things you've done most frequently throughout your career and another file of things you've done most recently. The one with the frequency file will have a lot more data points in it than the recency file. But when you continue to pour more data into the recency file and work on it purposely and give it more intention and cultivate it and nurture it, eventually that catches up to the old habit frequency file, and then it starts spilling over into the frequency file because you've been doing it long enough. Well, now it becomes easy to access.

Speaker 2: 29:29

The trouble for most golfers is in the short term. They're not patient enough and accepting enough of how that process works to see it through. So if they're working on something, and it's working and it's changing, but all of a sudden you run into a tough situation on the golf course and you revert to the old habit, you say, well, see, it doesn't work and then you're off looking for another pattern. Really, that whole habitual process of looking for a new answer, a new answer, a new answer because you haven't seen the other process through really comes down to the level of acceptance. Are you willing to accept to do it thoroughly or not? And so I have a student I've worked with for three years now, no-transcript level of acceptance. You're able to, you know, learn the new skills that you want to learn deeper, faster, with more purpose, and you can replace the old skills a lot faster.

Speaker 3: 30:48

And that's a really balanced approach to the mental game. One of my pet peeves that I tell Jesse is this A lot of coaches simply get their 24 handicappers stand on the tee box, visualize a draw. That's not going to happen without acquired motor patterns and then, on the other hand, they take their very good players and they try to make them do a lot of technical stuff to the exclusion of proper visualization techniques. I think there is a happy middle ground, which you've just described and laid out for us.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Yeah, and to that point, not everybody programs gets the programming done with the same type of visualization. So I call it imagery, because imagery is the visualization and the feel combined. Visualization is just the picturing it. Okay, jack nicholas was able to very visualize things very vividly. Okay, a lot of people say they can't and like, but you have a feel for it and they go yeah, the feel side of it is stronger than the visual side of it and over time I want them to cultivate the visual side.

Speaker 2: 32:01

I don't believe in the theories that I'm a visual learner or an audio learner or kinesthetic learner, and because what those studies negated was that the reasoning why that individual was learning better in that situation was because they had a preference for expressing themselves and their preference may have been more auditory, so they learned more through auditory faculties. But the reality is we learn through all of our faculties and if I can height my ability to learn through all my faculties, I will become a better learner. Pigeonholing us into an area because we have a preference I don't think is the right way of going about it. But here's the importance of this Once we know what that preference for expressing yourself is, let's face it when we play a golf shot, we are expressing ourselves, and so I want them to express themselves in their preference. So, like when I have a field player in front of me and they have swing sayings, for example, that they use in their routine as well, I want them to have a swing saying. That's field related, and so the way that they express themselves is important and that's how they're going to bring it out and that's how they're going to find a way to access it a lot more readily.

Speaker 2: 33:19

But when they're learning, I want them to learn through all their faculties. So I actually challenge them to learn through faculties that they get frustrated with in the beginning because they're not used to learning that way, and once they learn to get comfortable with that, they realize how much better a learner they are. And then I say look, but go back to your preference. When you want to express yourself, use your preference. So if you're a field player, be more field. If you're more visual, get that strong visualization like Jack Nicklaus. If you're kinesthetic, you know, get into those movement patterns. So you know, that's sort of my process for tailoring it to the individual. So you spoke about primacy.

Speaker 3: 34:00

You spoke about the memory bank. So everything we do on the practice team creates myelination, creates a neuromuscular pathways for new motor patterns. Then the key thing is this right, how do we actually access those things? Could you talk a little bit about swing thoughts and which is normally used to try to access those movement patterns? Can you talk a little bit about the difference between what we think and how we think it?

Speaker 2: 34:33

Yeah. So what we think is less is important in the swings. You know, thought area Okay. So for example, I asked I asked students to come up with swing sayings. I had one lady who said to me Cindy Crawford. I said Cindy Crawford, why Cindy Crawford? Why do you say Cindy Crawford? Well, you know, she's really graceful and moves in rhythm and it's really hard to say Cindy Crawford really fast. So interesting, the how was in, she couldn't say it too fast and the image of grace that she got out of saying Cindy Crawford. Saying Cindy Crawford wasn't what was important, it was what she got out of the image of Cindy Crawford that was important. And that imagery is what allowed her to access the skill sets that brought out her temper, tempo and her rhythm in her golf swing. I had another student who said jelly donut. I said jelly donut, why jelly donut? You know, when you break into a nice fresh, hot jelly donut the jelly just oozes out. It can't go too fast. Kind of hard to argue with that. When she actually said jelly donut to herself, her tempo was better. So again, the words were not as important. You know, I'm saying the thought itself and the words were not as important as the image that was being, you know, you know, utilized within the saying, and so that's important.

Speaker 2: 35:57

For some people, the sayings need to be pertinent to what you're doing. Like you know, canico, my wife, one of her sayings is turn, turn, finish. You know. Good. Turn of the backswing. Good turn of the forward swing, finish the swing, you know, good turn of the backswing, good turn of the forward swing, finish the swing. And for her it's simple and it's important and it's, it's pertinent, it's not abstract to the situation. For other people it needs to be more abstract, otherwise they are, their analytical mind gets too involved and they lose the flow because they're thinking their way through it too much. They're not going with the imagery that the saying is supposed to. You know, connect them to.

Speaker 3: 36:33

So it's like a VJ saying, right, he's got this swing thought 17.

Speaker 2: 36:38

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:39

It doesn't mean anything. He's won 34 times on the PGA tour, so it can't be said. Let me try to get it Sounds good.

Speaker 2: 36:46

Sounds good to him. He says it in a rhythmic manner. I have a lot of students just say their favorite number.

Speaker 1: 36:55

You know Michael Jordan's your favorite player.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Yeah, exactly Stuff like that. So you know, for me it was 1,001, 1,002, my full power swings. So Fred Shoemaker was watching me one day and he says you know when you swing best, it's like this you know 1,001 and you're at the top of the backswing, 1,000, you're at delivery, then two, you're at the finish, you know. So like he kind of pointed that out and I would just swing and say it and I was like he's right, that's what's going on. So forever I said 1,001, 1,002 on my full swings. I say 1, 2 on a partial swing. So again, no specific meaning there, besides the fact that there was sort of a tempo and a timing that matched that that he had recognized and I just do the song and dance.

Speaker 3: 37:44

So we know that some players are hurt by string thoughts, while others are helped by string thoughts. So it could be oh sorry to belabor the point, keep my head down, it works for some. Some guys say, hey, keep my head down, Works really well. Some guys they get in their own way and then the neural signal from the brain to the associated muscles gets corrupted. They lose sense of timing. So in that regard, can you talk a little bit about the prefrontal cortex and the cerebellum?

Speaker 2: 38:16

Yeah, so to make it simple for the viewers, that what we need to understand is that the mind is like an onion, right, and so what you want to do is understand that what is present on the outside is not necessarily what's governing what's going on on the inside. So when we make a commitment or we make a chosen intention and we program it, we start sending it kind of into the background, kind of starts soaking down into one of those layers of the onion and something else replaces it on the surface, you know. And so the thing that's on the surface needs to be, you know, like the outer layer of an onion is sort of, when you peel out off, the brown stuff is see-through there. You can see through it. It's not like it's not like this very vivid thing that's right up there in your face and and is the thing that you're actually focusing on. Again, it becomes more like a song and dance, the thing that you think is most present to you. Timothy Galloway would say it's distracting you from getting distracted. Okay, so in other words, it's giving your conscious mind something to attend to, and if it believes in the thing that it's attending to, it will not get in the way of what the subconscious mind needs to do, which is send the signal to the body.

Speaker 2: 39:37

And I'm describing it differently here than what the brain mechanisms are, because to me there's a difference between the mind and the brain. The brain is the mechanism, the mind is the energy, and it starts with the mind in our our, doesn't start with the brain, for us, it starts with what's going on in our mind, in our awareness, in our, our inner. You know realm okay, and I actually make a distinction between mental and inner, by the way. So, mind being more what the conscious mind is doing and the signals that the subconscious mind sends and the communication between the two. But the inner world is more awareness. And so to me, once we've actually created the program, got committed, have the meeting of minds between conscious and subconscious.

Speaker 2: 40:24

Now there's no argument inside, there's no confusion, there's no conflict inside. When there's conflict inside, it really doesn't matter what you think. You can fight to think about what you need to do harder and harder and harder, and it's just not going to show up. So the thoughts just don't do you any good. But when there's a meeting of the minds and there's a calmness to the situation and a belief in the situation, then you can have any swing thought you want. That just gives you confidence in the moment and will distract your conscious mind from getting in the way and creating interference. And so that's why I say the actual thought itself is not important, you just have to believe in it.

Speaker 2: 41:02

You know, koniko, turn, turn, finish. She believes in it. She doesn't think it's the whole story, but she just believes that it's a good dance and it's a fun dance. And if you're going to make a dance, you might as well make a fun dance. So she says it and she does it. And so the conscious mind has to stay out of the way so that the subconscious mind can send the signals through the brain, through the cerebellum, through the spine, into the body, so the body can respond. The subconscious mind is who tells the body what to do. The body does not understand our conscious thoughts. It doesn't understand the language of our conscious thoughts. It understands the language of our neurology. So our between conscious and subconscious, that meeting of the minds into a language that the subconscious mind can understand, and our job, once we've actually got to that point, is to respond without any interference. And almost all the interference comes from the conscious mind, or prefrontal cortex if you want to put it that way.

Speaker 3: 42:01

So what you're talking about, interference, is basically us judging the movement, judging the outcome, judging the consequences, and it goes back again to accepting it.

Speaker 2: 42:13

Yeah. So again, it could be judgment, it could be doubt, it could be worry, you know, it could be concern about how other people will judge you. I mean, there's all kinds of mental, you know paradigms that you can get caught up in, habitual stories. There's a book called Celestine Prophecy I think is wonderful, but in the book they have what they call control dramas. Basically they're just habitual stories.

Speaker 2: 42:40

We tell ourselves that we get wrapped up in and it pulls us out of the moment, it pulls us out of the awareness state, it pulls us out of quiet mind and quiet eye where we could be responsive to what we're doing. And so the real key is quieting the mind and quieting the eye to get rid of that interference. If the conscious mind is active, at a very high, active state, then you're going to have a hard time being in an awareness zone where you can actually respond properly. As a matter of fact, you can have all the right thoughts, but your mind is working like the brain itself has got frequencies that are going on at different megahertz, and if you're up at 150 megahertz activity, brain activity even if you have the right focus and the right thought, you actually are disrupting the process of the subconscious mind sending the signal through the mechanism to the body. You need to get that way down more like 10 megahertz and so understanding, like I do these breathing exercises for people to understand quiet eye and quiet mind before the pull of trigger.

Speaker 2: 43:48

But the third part of that is quieting the brain. So, like I'm a high energy, high active person, my brain is at high levels all the time. But when I'm playing golf I take a deep breath and I teach people in three breaths Take your first deep breath and just relax the body physically. Take your second deep breath and feel the mind calm down and quiet down to where there's very little mental activity going on. And in the third breath I literally feel the brain activity come down.

Speaker 2: 44:18

So like when I was a kid, my aunts and uncles would put their fist on your head, hit the fist with the other one, break it open and then they'd move their hands down the side of your head like a broken egg. It was a thing that they did. So like when I'm quieting my brain down, bring it down to the proper megahertz I literally feel like this egg is oozing down the side of my brain really slow. It's kind of like the jelly donut thing, like that jelly oozing out, and it brings the megahertz frequency of my brain down to a level where I can perform properly. Frequency of my brain down to a level where I can perform properly. And so quiet mind, quiet eye and quieting the brain, getting the brain down to a calmer state of activity, are really important to getting yourself to that point where you can pull the trigger, respond and stay on the surfboard without any interference.

Speaker 3: 45:03

So can you talk a little bit to our listeners about how we can use the subconscious to access fast twitch muscles and which will result in greater distances of the team yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:16

So again, this all comes down to the state of relaxation, acceptance. So, like bruce lee would always say relaxed muscles are faster muscles, people would always argue that you need to be more tense, and he always say relaxed muscles are faster muscles. People would always argue that you need to be more tense and he would say, no, relaxed muscles are faster muscles. So for me, like one of the things I always did in that standpoint is I do awing, so I actually swing and I want to make as long as full, fast swing as I can and never hear that awe change tone. I want the awe to be as deep as possible, coming from my abdomen, not coming from the chest, like if you start to awe and you're awing, you know deep. You could hear that deep awe If I move that breathing center up into my chest from you could hear the change in the tone right. And if I move that breathing center right up to my Adam's apple, I just choked on it and literally I say that's what choking in sports is If you are actually relaxed and deep breathing and the breathing's proper and you're acting and oops, you make a mistake. In sports people go, oh, that was an error. But if you tense up and you hold your breath when you do it, people that was an error. But if you tense up and you hold your breath when you do it, people say that was a choke. People see the difference. They don't know the physical mechanism that's related to it or correlated to it. Is it the cause or is it the response? It doesn't really matter. It's happening and I know for a fact when I'm awing really well and swinging I never choke. You can make a mistake, you can get distracted, but you're not going to choke.

Speaker 2: 46:51

So to access those fast-fix muscles, I do awing. As a matter of fact, people used to ask me the guys in college and stuff, when I reached for another gear and I played it a lot further. They're like how did you play it that much further? Because you didn't look like you swung any harder or faster. I literally told them I just awed better. And so Fred Shoemaker was the one that got me on awing. He did it because he wanted me to feel where I had tension in my golf swing.

Speaker 2: 47:17

In the first awe I had four hiccups. It was horrible. By the end of that hour session I had wanted impact. By the end of a month. I didn't have wanted impact, but my all wasn't as deep as it could be. It took me a year to master it, doing it two hours a day. And funny thing is I came back to show Fred about all this a few months in what I was working on and he goes it's ridiculous. I give you a tip and three months later you've come back and you've written a book on it, sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 47:46

But I learned to play the ball further by falling better, you know, within the technique I already have Now, of course, look, you can do the Bryson. If your body can handle it, you can bulk up. You know you could do it that way. If you're a fast twitch muscle person, you can go do fast twitch speed training and do that. Me, I'm in the middle, so I have these force application trainings that I do, but based upon what you already have. If you want to play the ball further and more effortlessly, learn to awe as deep and relaxed as you can, maintaining the same length swing and the ball will go further.

Speaker 3: 48:24

And this is covered in your new website. Making your Golf Swing Simple and this is covered in your new website Making your Golf Simple.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Yeah, makingyourgolfsimplecom. There is a whole play in the flow section that covers this stuff in there and there's a lot of different modules on that website. But playing in the flow specifically, I cover in one of the modules. But playing in the flow specifically, I cover in one of the modules. And one thing that allows us to do this to get back to the subconscious part of this and the acceptance level is so I try to train my students to practice with purpose, and what do I mean by that?

Speaker 2: 49:00

So Tiger used to come off of a break and dominate, and they would ask him well, how can you do that? How do you dominate after coming off a break? Everybody else is trying to find their game again. And he said that during his training and his practice leading up to the tournament, he had more intensity in his practice. Well, that sounds great, but what the heck does that mean?

Speaker 2: 49:21

I really believe what he meant is that he was more purposeful. In other words, with every action, with every swing, with every drill, he was communicating to his subconscious mind the intent behind it, the importance of it, the purpose behind it. And when the subconscious mind understands the purpose behind what you're doing and the benefits out of it that you're going to get, it will onboard itself to that new intention a lot faster. So we look at all these studies that say like it takes 6,000 repetitions to internalize a habit and that study said at about 1,500, you begin to develop confidence in it. You know 10,000 hours to master something.

Speaker 2: 50:03

Well, all that's predicated upon the level of learning that people were at when they were going through those studies. But could you learn faster if you were more purposeful in your intention? And I believe yes, I believe Tiger proved it. I've done it myself in my training. When I don't have time to practice on the range, I do it at home in training swings and slow motion swings, and I can make changes without practicing on the range and doing it in a way that I have enough confidence to access it when I go play.

Speaker 3: 50:33

Could you give our listeners a glimpse of how to practice subconsciously?

Speaker 2: 50:38

Yeah, so it sounds funny, but it's.

Speaker 2: 50:40

You literally have to talk to your subconscious mind.

Speaker 2: 50:42

So it's like we say me, myself and I, well, who's me in that description, who's myself in that description and who's I in that description? And so me is the person I think of consciously, as me, myself is the inner golfer. The subconscious golfer is the subconscious self. I is the ego. And, as I tell people in sports, I needs to be sitting on the bench. Now, in between plays and stuff, you want to needle the opponent or needle your friends when you're competing with them on the golf course, I can come out and do whatever he wants, but during the routine, I need to be sitting on the bench. The ego has no play in the moment of performance. That's a distraction. The ego can create its own distractions in the moment of performance. Okay, that's a distraction. The ego can create its own distractions, you know, in the moment. But there needs to be this meeting of the minds between the conscious and the subconscious means you have to talk, that you have to actually have a relationship with your subconscious mind. So, like I describe all the time, as you know, I I don't teach one method or anything. I teach, coach each student to learn their best pattern and I will stand there and demonstrate their pattern to them. And my students say all the time how the heck can you do that? And I mean you see video of it on Instagram or whatever. When I'm doing it.

Speaker 2: 52:02

I have one student in particular hates it when I demonstrate a swing because it looks as good as his and he's like, well, how can you do it when this is my swing? But I literally have this conversation with my subconscious mind. I say, look, we have to demonstrate this swing for John right now. I know this isn't our swing, but we have to demonstrate this for John right now so John can see what he needs to do. And I've had this conversation with my subconscious mind for so many years.

Speaker 2: 52:26

I've had this line of communication that my subconscious mind's like my best friend. He goes yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, we need to do this for John. This isn't our swing. We'll be back to our swing in a moment but let's show John this right now. And then I just stand up there and I execute and John gets to see what his swing needs to look like. But you literally have to create a relationship with myself, relationship with myself. So it's me and myself. We're a team. We need to have a meeting of the minds. If you don't open that line of communication and there's always conflict between the myself and the me and me how are you ever going to get to the level of acceptance that you want? And most people can feel that conflict inside them, whether they want to admit it or not. They can feel the conflict and they can feel the indecision and they can feel the doubts.

Speaker 3: 53:11

All that's coming because there's not a meeting of the minds and what are some tips that our students can do to practice, say a new move. Say a swing plane is too high, you want to get it on a lower swing plane and the torso plane, for example on the downswing. What's a practical way for them to go through this?

Speaker 2: 53:30

Yeah, so I do training swings which are like katas or forms in the martial arts and so like, okay, let's, let's get in our address position, go to the takeaway the way you normally do it, and let's assume assume you have too high of a backswing. I just had a student here yesterday or two days ago that I screened and I showed him where his backswing was built to be. He goes oh, I'm never there. He goes. This feels great, he goes. I feel like I can swing from here because my normal back swings way up here and and I don't know what to do from here. It's like the craziest thing, right. And so I said, well, this is what you need to do. You need to go home and you need to make your takeaway and go up to your normal backswing.

Speaker 2: 54:08

And when you're there and you're feeling right in that moment, wow, it's going to be really hard to get slotted from here. I really don't know how I'm going to get the slot from here. You have to talk to your subconscious mind and say see, from up here, we have a hell of. It's got to be we, not me we, because it's meeting of the mind, right. So it sounds funny, but I say we, we're up there, we need to get this backswing into alignment where we feel like, boy, we can really slot it. Well, and then you move it down into that slot that you're trying to change to and when you get there you start feeding the good information. You see, when we're here, look how easy it is to transition and slot and the club automatically shallows and like I'm just pouring on all that good stuff that comes out of the change to the subconscious mind and getting it to buy into the fact that this is better. And the more it buys into the new changes better, the more it'll just put you there.

Speaker 3: 55:02

So essentially creating a state of being present and aware.

Speaker 2: 55:07

Yeah, you got to be present, you got to be aware. But then the purposeful part is having the conversation between conscious and subconscious to get the subconscious to purposefully understand why one is better for you, you know for the team and why the other one is hard for the team.

Speaker 3: 55:29

Amazing Jesse. Any questions?

Speaker 1: 55:32

No, I'm, I'm blown away, you guys. Every time I had a question, ea answered it In his explanation. No, this is. This is really really great stuff, ea, this is. You know, justin and I talk about these topics quite a bit because I mean, how much more are we going to know about the golf swing? I mean, I think we got the golf swing pretty dialed, don't we? I mean the most part.

Speaker 3: 56:02

Yeah, ea, would you say that there are no more secrets left in the golf swing? Well, we've got hack motion. We've got some grip dynamometer. We've got hack motion. We've got some grip dynamometer. We've got force plates. We've got jack man.

Speaker 2: 56:15

We've got gear 3D motion analysis.

Speaker 3: 56:17

I think there's no more secrets left.

Speaker 2: 56:20

Interestingly enough, there are a lot of things we can't measure yet, and there are a lot of things we can't measure together yet. Okay, like I mean measure yet, and there are a lot of things we can't measure together yet. Okay, like I mean integrating a force plates with a 3d sensor system that uses like wi-fi or bluetooth. It's like they interfere with each other and you just have trouble doing it now with gears and force plates. That's becoming a lot better, but we've been waiting for this more and more over the year with apps like Sportsbox, ai, motion to Coach that are getting better and better at creating 3D models from one camera hopefully two cameras sort of thing. That's going to get better and better. So there are still things that we're going to learn of how things add up and synchronize better for individuals in the future. We're going to get better at being able to point to what this person needs to do faster. That's going to get better going forward.

Speaker 2: 57:21

There still are things I don't think are talked about enough I think you're familiar with. I'm really big on understanding. Are you a horizontal golfer or are you more of a tilter? Are you more of a stabilization golfer? You know who creates speed off, stabilizing the body and swinging the arms and having the body follow? Are you more of a dynamic pivoter, like a DJ, who fires and goes body first, arms follow. And then are you more in the middle, like Sam Snead, tiger Woods, sort of thing? I think we're going to understand more and more of that going forward. I'll put it to you this way I think most of that is out in the world now. It hasn't hit critical mass where even the average teacher is understanding it or looking at it yet, but I think we'll get there.

Speaker 2: 58:05

But I really believe that what holds people back and why they don't stick with a system that still works for them or already works for them, is because they don't understand that mastering a process has more to do with the inner game and these levels of acceptance and this communication between conscious and subconscious. And so what happens is is a lot of times, when they fail to get the job done as often as they want, they start looking for another mechanical reason, and you'll see it in Zach Johnson. Zach Johnson was making the most of what he had doing. Great, they wanted to get more distance. He kind of lost it for 18 months to two years. They went back to his old you know way of doing it and just trying to master it and score as good as you can, based upon paradigm that he had, and he won, I think, tigers tournament and then the British Open and or Open Championship.

Speaker 2: 59:10

And so the biggest link to performance, in my opinion, is more the inner game and the process owning your process, mastering your mind, mastering communication between the subconscious and subconscious, getting that level of acceptance where it needs to be, learning to program and trust the program, learning to trigger the swing in a reactive state and ride it out out, and having an overall acceptance that that process is really the answer to performance, not a better swing and, um, and unfortunately there's still a lot of people out there trying to argue that there's one best swing for everybody. So how long will that debate go on? I don't know, but I think we're making a lot of headways in that department, um, in this day and age one swing.

Speaker 3: 59:48

That's the dark ages of golf instruction. Yeah, so where can our listeners find out more about the products that you offer?

Speaker 2: 59:58

yeah, so my regular website's newhorizonsgolfcom, so you can always go to find stuff there. It's a new website, so I'm I'm sort of revamping it from an old one. Um, I have uh making your golf simplecom, which is content member-based. Um. There's different modules there for beginners. I have one called essential core lessons. Um, and there's uh 10 videos on putting you know, 10 on the short game, 10 on your wedge play, 10 on the basic swing and 10 on the on finishing the swing, which is from a long game. So you get a lot of foundational stuff in there.

Speaker 2: 1:00:32

Um, I have one called golf swing cornerstone, so that's more uh secrets to great ball striking, working off impact, fixed drills and all that sort of stuff. Um, there's um there's what I call understanding your lefts and your rights. So very simply, um, think of it this way If your shots are curving more to the left than you want, then your left influences are stronger than your right influences. If your shots are curving more to the right, then your right influences are stronger than your left. And if your ball starts in your window, curves in your window and stays in your window, your rights and your lefts are complementing each other the way you want. So I kind of delve into, like, the reasons for those things. I've got one on the fundamentals, one on power stacking for understanding power applications, of course playing in the flow. There's one for the nine basic swing flaws, and then we got own your swing, which is the biomechanical stuff. So, and you can sign up for any one of those, or you can sign up for the full membership and get access to all the content.

Speaker 3: 1:01:32

And do you still do certification courses for instructors?

Speaker 2: 1:01:37

So I haven't been doing them. Over the last three years I've had a lot of requests for me to start up doing them for those people that want to work with me. So certainly that's something I'm looking to do start up again this winter. I've got a variety of projects right now. I'm going to be opening a web store sometime this year because I have about 15 different training aids I've invented and I've patented some of them in the past, and I've got another app that I'm going to launch New Horizons Golf app coming out Towards the end of the year I'm going to do.

Speaker 2: 1:02:09

I have an app I'm working on for playing in the flow as well, and then I have another one for the biomechanics stuff. So I've got a lot of projects on my plate for this year. I'm trying to get like all my that business stuff organized that this year. I still need to finish off some of the books I've been working on. Unfortunately, my you keep asking me about volume four. I went back to work on volume four a couple of months ago and I opened up the file and the file was empty and the book was 80% done. So I don't know if I'm going to be able to recover it or if I'm going to have to start over.

Speaker 3: 1:02:47

But I'm looking to see.

Speaker 2: 1:02:51

You know this has happened before with computers and stuff and people have never been able to find it. It's happened before and they've found it, so I don't know what happened. Interesting, I do have a bunch of hard drives with old where I downloaded from old computers so I may have an earlier version that I can start with also. But it was a very shock to me to I went in to start working on another chapter and it was gone, so I'll help you post this call what's that we can discuss about this post a call, I'll help you out okay

Speaker 1: 1:03:27

that's right. Well, gents, this has been a real treat. I'll help you out. Okay, that's right. Well, gents, this has been a real treat. And EA, once again, your words of wisdom are profound and I believe that, in my own opinion, that we are. This is going to be the next level of coaching. What we talked about over the last hour I mean, as far as you know, getting from the practice tee to the first tee is. Everybody has a little bit of an issue with that, unless you play fairly well for the most part, but you know, this really is the next level of learning and I applaud you for bringing it to the forefront for all of us.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

And I think that there will be one other step in this we didn't address this time, but I believe that there is mental and emotional scarring that happens Like.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

One of the hardest thing is when you've had a tour player who had success and then they lost it and you're working to get them back and they get all the skills back where they need to. One of the hardest things is getting their confidence level and getting their process to a point where they can perform the way they used to, and a lot of times the scarring gets in the way. The work that I've done on this to help people get beyond that scarring comes from this communication that I've talked about. The first step opening this line of communication between conscious and subconscious and being more committed to the process. So I think that's something that we're going to see in the future and when we can get past that type of scarring, humanity as a whole is going to be in a lot better place, because people have scarring in everyday life and when they can learn to get past that scarring, their lives are going to be much more fulfilling. Hear, hear.

Speaker 3: 1:05:17

Great, we can talk about that the next time you're on.

Speaker 1: 1:05:20

That's right. Yeah, absolutely, we've got you held captive now. Ye, okay, gents, cheers.