Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Hello and welcome to Flaghunters ! It is a privilege to bring to you this powerful insight into playing better Golf. In all my years of being in the game of Golf from competing at a high amateur level, to caddying, teaching, and being a overall Golf geek, I have an insatiable, curiosity driven desire to get down to the bottom of what it takes to truly get better playing the game of Golf that we all unconditionally love. This has been one of the greatest journeys of my life and I am deeply grateful for all that Golf has given me. Thank you for joining me in this incredible journey. This is my ever evolving love letter to Golf. Jesse Perryman P.S. Please Rate, Review and Subscribe !
Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Transforming Your Wedge Play with Edison's Groundbreaking Craftsmanship
Feel free to text me at (831)275-8804
Imagine perfecting your wedge game with advice from a master craftsman with over three decades of experience. Terry Kohler of Edison Wedges joins us to share his wisdom, ensuring that whether you're navigating the plush turf of Monterey or the rugged landscapes of Texas, you'll be armed with the knowledge to choose just the right club to enhance your play. Alongside my co-host, respected Singaporean golf instructor Justin Tang, we dissect the intricacies of wedge design, revealing the ways in which bounce and turf interaction can dramatically transform your short game.
Uncover the secrets of the Edison 2.0 wedges, as we delve into the art of club crafting and its evolution from classics like the Reed Lockhart and Hogan Fort Worth blades. This episode isn't just about history; it's about revolutionizing your performance through weight redistribution and understanding the smash factor. We also examine the disparities between the needs of tour players and the weekend golfer, ensuring that the wisdom imparted is applicable to your game, no matter your skill level. Plus, we discuss the strategic fitting of clubs and the importance of practice to master the proper motion through impact.
Wrap up your golfing toolkit with insider knowledge on how to structure your golf bag for success. Learn the significance of matching your wedges to your irons and the effect that grip and swing weight have on your game. I'll also illuminate the impact of club finish on your wedge shots, from the aesthetic appeal to the practicality of rust prevention. With Terry's commitment to excellence and our shared enthusiasm for the game, this episode is your tee-off point for elevating your wedge play to enviable heights.
Make sure to go to www.edisonwedges.com to pick these bad boys up.
You can reach Justin easiest via his email, Justin@elitegolfswing.com
You can reach Jesse easiest via his email, Jesse@flaghuntersgolf.com
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Flat Gunners Golf Podcast. I welcome you. My name is Jesse Perryman and myself, along with my co-host, justin Tang, we got a good one for you this week. Hope everybody is having a great week.
Speaker 1:Start to the week thus far and today on the pod we've got Terry Kohler from Edison Wedges. These wedges are, for lack of a better word, fantastic. I have a couple of them in my bag and they're really, really good. And this is a great conversation with Terry, who's been in the business for 30-plus years, who has designed himself some fantastic wedges, designed himself some fantastic wedges, and this conversation is all about wedge play and wedges and how wedges work as far as bounce, how to use bounce, what to look for, turf interaction with wedges and, on a personal note, I have a couple of them. Terry was kind enough to send me a couple of them. I've got a 54 and a 60 degree and I can take them anywhere. They are truly all-terrain vehicles. These balance profiles can go, and I live here in California on the Monterey Peninsula, where it's typically softer compared to most places, especially in season in the summertime, but these things can go anywhere from the softness of the Monterey Peninsula in the wintertime to being brick hard somewhere in Texas. How Terry has designed the cambering and the bounce profile, they truly can go anywhere. So you're not necessarily stuck or beholden to one particular grind or balance profile, because these things, according to how you want to position them on the ground and how you want to set your hands at address, they work for all shapes and sizes. So I am pleasantly surprised. They look amazing, they feel terrific and Terry has an absolute wealth of knowledge, being in the biz for as long as he has. And this is a great conversation and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:So, thanks to Terry, I'm going to make sure that you have all of the links to go ahead and pick yourself up some of these Edison wedges. They are the Edison 2.0s. They will come customized in any way shape form that you would wish, and the guys over there have just been absolutely fantastic. I highly recommend. I know that Justin's a tailor-made guy and I think he's. I think he's had one in his bag for forever and uh, they are great, so go ahead. Edison golfcom. I believe it is edison golf wwwedison wedges. It's actually edison wedges, edison wedgescom. It's pretty early in the morning here, so my brain isn't completely firing on all cylinders yet, but, edisonwedgescom, I'll make sure that all of the links are in the show notes.
Speaker 1:And once again, a big thanks to TaylorMaine and Adidas for their support of the show of Justin in particular. And thanks again everyone for listening. And then, if you want to work with me, I'm still continuing this program one-on-one. I'm going to help you get out of whatever deep, dark rabbit hole that you've put yourself in, that a lot of us who have played this game continue to do, going down the wrong avenues to improvement. I can help you get unstuck and provide some clarity and provide a pathway for you to find your way to bigger and better golf. Thanks again, everyone.
Speaker 1:Cheers, hello and welcome once again to another edition of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. I am your host, along with my co-host. This is Jesse Perryman, along with Justin Tang, my good friend from Singapore. He is an instructor at the Tanimera Golf Club and is quickly becoming one of the respected leaders and voices in the world of instruction. And our mutual guest today is none other than Terry Culler of Edison Wedges. Terry has quite a great background in the equipment genre, with Ben Hogan revitalizing the Ben Hogan Company and SCORE right, yes, score.
Speaker 2:But, terry, thanks for coming on and welcome. Well, thank you for having me. It's, uh, not many things. I enjoy more than sharing wedge knowledge with with golfers who are trying to sort out all the confusion about them amen to that.
Speaker 3:Thanks, uh, for thanks for coming on, terry. It's a real pleasure of mine because when I started the game of golf learning the game in 1998, someone passed me a set of reed lockhart blades. So back then I was using Japanese forged blades. And I go hey, this thing is a little different because of the face thickness and the muscle placement. So that was my first indirect introduction to you. Would you tell our listeners how you got into golf?
Speaker 2:Sure, I'll try to capsule that story because I've been in it for 40 years, but I grew up on a little nine-hole golf course in a small South Texas town and golf was a big focal point of our lives. I literally do not remember life before golf. I was out there at four and five years old carrying my bag in four clubs and playing nine holes from the front tees, and grew up with a father that was a very good player, a PGA professional that really took a lot of care with us kids, and there was a whole group of us, a generation of us, that were very blessed to grow up there. And so after college I worked my way into the advertising business and was in San Antonio, texas, and the Ray Cook Putter Company was there. So I went and called on the Ray Cook Putter Company and got their advertising account and kind of stepped back. I was the kind of kid that was always taking things apart to see how they worked.
Speaker 2:And so when I got into the golf club business with Ray Cook and then I met Joe Powell, the Persimmon Woodmaker, and Odie Chrisman, the putter maker, and these were this back in the 80s, when there wasn't launch monitors and AI and any of that, no CAD, it was all seat of the pants golf club development.
Speaker 2:So I learned I had some people that were very patient with me and taught me an awful lot about golf clubs and performance and, being blessed to be a scratch player and a good ball striker, I had the ability to put two and two together of what they were teaching me. So from there I started designing putters in the 80s and then on a trip to St Andrews in Scotland in 1990 with my brother, I just had this idea for wedges and I started grinding on the bottom of a wedge to make it more versatile for that tight turf over there. And then that was where what we now call the Kaler sole it's been the V sole, the dual mount sole, but this patented sole design that I've been perfecting for 30 years came out of that trip, and so that's kind of how I got off into the wedge category and focused on that for 30 years.
Speaker 3:Awesome. So you have designed irons, drivers, putters and wedges, but you're primarily known as the wedge guy. Was it an accident, or was it something that you just gravitated towards over the years?
Speaker 2:Well, I started out designing putter, justin, and I designed over a hundred different putter models for Merritt Golf, for a company I started called Tech 21, for the Ben, and that's what took me to the Ben Ogun company in the early 90s. But about that time I was starting also to get interested in wedges and I'm quite a golf club collector and I have all kinds of things and I started noticing in the 90s. The wedges in the 90s looked just like the ones in the 60s and the 70s and it's like well, you know, all this technology is happening in golf, why is it not happening in the wedge category? And I've watched this for the last 30 years. I mean, if you look at the wedges that are on the market today, they're not nearly as different from 1980 model wedges as our drivers, our irons, our putters, our golf ball, our golf bags, our shoes, drivers, our irons, our putters, our golf ball, our golf bags, our shoes. Everything is different than the 90s except our wedges and I think that that's holding golfers back in their development.
Speaker 2:So I've always been focused more on the recreational player than the tour player. I mean, I've worked with tour players, I've made a lot of friends there, but, as Jesse knows, I mean you elite players. You're tough to work with because you can feel things we can barely measure. Jesse knows I mean you elite players. You're tough to work with because you can feel things we can barely measure and you spend dozens and hundreds and thousands of hours on your short game. That's how you get to be a plus two and that golfer that's out there trying to have fun and break 100, break 90, break 80.
Speaker 2:I found that the wedge play is really what's holding most of them back and I think it's partly due to the equipment, partly due to just a misunderstanding about techniques. I've studied wedge technique and wedge technology, how they go together, and that's kind of how I approach wedge design is who am I trying to build this wedge for? And we got some brilliant people in our industry Bob Boki, aaron Dill, these guys that build wedges for tour players. My deal is I'm building wedges for your guys 120,000 people listening to you. I'm building wedges to help them break 90, break 100, break 80, hit better quality shots. Keep the big numbers off the card, cool.
Speaker 3:So what are some of your notable designs and innovations across the spectrum of golf equipment? So, Like things that you've got the merit to so I'm interested in. I'm across the spectrum of golf equipment so you've got the merit to a soul so I'm interested in. I'm sure our listeners are interested in the other parts of the bag besides wedges. We'll get into the wedges after this.
Speaker 2:Well, as I mentioned, I started in putters and I was doing the very interesting thing with things with face balancing and and weight distribution. And in putters I did a really nice line for Hogan in the early 90s. They never really gave it the attention it needed but it was a really nice line. In the wedge category, the two things I've been really pursuing is the ultimate sole design to give you versatility and weight management in wedges. You know, in every other category of golf clubs we talk about the club head design being the key to performance. You know the composite materials, the fast faces, the tungsten inserts, but in wedges nobody talks about the head design because they all basically look alike. They talk about grooves and grinds. I call it the GG complex. So you know, and we can get deeper into wedges.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite clubs that I've ever designed and you mentioned them while I go the Reed Lockhart blade irons of the mid nineties that you know what I did is I took a traditional muscle back blade design and I moved some weight into the toe, where blades are weak, you know, and traditional blades are very weak on anything hit toward the toe and I said, well, I can fix that, I'll put some meat out there and so that Reed Lockhart, the RL blade I bladed actually for 20 years until I developed the Fort Worth irons for Hogan back in 2014 and 15, which is another of my favorite designs the Fort Worth blade irons I did for Hogan, which are still in my bag and probably will be until Edison does irons, if that ever happens, but they're getting kind of beat up. I wish I had several sets of them, but they've been in my bag for nine years now. So I've played two different irons in the last 30 years the Reed Lockhart blades and the Hogan Fort Worth blades.
Speaker 3:That's amazing. Some people change their irons every other year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, and it's funny because when you talk about that and, jesse, you know this right now in your wheelhouse you look at the tour players. They don't change irons very often. You know, and there was just some coverage last year about Adam Scott, you know, leaving and going to Mira or wherever he went, and they recreated the title of blade that he's played for 20 years because it's predictable and we'll come back and talk about that word. When it comes to wedge play, you know Adam Scott doesn't want to have to relearn seven iron shots and relearn five iron shots and relearn eight iron shots. And you know Tiger Woods I mean here's the greatest golfer of our generation and you know his his tailor made blades are just like the timeless blades they made that were just like the Nike blades they made to look just like the timeless blades that he played in high school. So you know and you get familiar, you get comfortable with those irons and your learning becomes cumulative and you know how to hit. You know that eight iron, seven different ways. But you know the predictability.
Speaker 2:You know that tour player is not looking for you to help him be a better iron player, he's looking for you to help him hit predictable shots, right, jesse? I mean he's looking. I want to know how to hit that ball through these different windows for ball flight. I want to know how to pull four yards off of it. And one of my big and I've experimented with a lot of iron and one of my big aggravations with you know, any of the game improvement thin-faced irons is every once in a while you'll get that iron shot and it's over the back of the green and I've never seen a golf course you can score from the back of the green. But you know the technology is if that driver has a hot spot that you catch every eighth or 10th time, that's great. But if that seven iron has a hot spot you catch every eighth or 10th time it's putting you in the back bunker or worse. And nobody ever scored golf courses from the behind the greens, right, and nobody ever scored golf courses from behind the greens, right, jesse Boy?
Speaker 1:you sure hope not. You sure hope not. But that's where wedges come in. I mean, I talk quite a bit, justin and I talk about this quite a bit offline about the power of when you get wedges in your hands and you're familiar with the weight of them, the look of them, the balance profile, you know what they do in different situations, different conditions. It's really powerful.
Speaker 1:You know, I always tell people I get a lot of direct messages I'm sure Justin does too about inside of 100 yards, and I always tell people that you, you, you have to take the time to experiment with different wedges, different bounce profiles, different, waiting to really find out what you like. I mean, if you, if you're, I mean if you could throw a bean bag through a hoop, uh, four or five feet away, you can hit wedges and you can putt. It's really not that hard. But one thing that I was really looking on your website, terry, on the Edison Wedge website and this is something that I want you to talk about, because I do get messages a lot about this about I have no clue what bounce, what is bounce, what is that? You know, what is a good bounce profile for me? What's a good sole design for me? Because there are different options. You've got Callaway with a 10S and you've got, you know, the different bounce profiles of the Vokey wedges Cleveland. You have all of these, all of this different information coming at you and what's surprising to me is how good players still don't know this very phenomenon.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that really excited me when we found out we landed you for the pod was to go onto your website and you've got a wedge that has a universal sole design.
Speaker 1:You've got a universal bounce profile. So guys like me may not necessarily have to go through the painstaking trial and error and research and development on what it is exactly what I want out of different conditions. If I can have a wedge that's going to suffice in wet Northern California conditions for the most part all year. It's a softer turf interaction deal up here for the most part all year. It's a softer turf interaction deal up here for the most part all along the coast of California, versus going to a place like Texas where it's firm, where it's dry, and then you go to a place like Singapore that may have two different conditions. It would be really advantageous to have a wedge that's going to be able to handle all of those without having to go back and change different bounce profiles, and your wedges seem to fit the bill. Let's talk about that a little bit your bounce profile and your wedge in your sole design.
Speaker 2:You know in my writing of my blog. For 20 years I've been writing weekly, I've got over a thousand articles and I get a lot of people write in to the wedge guy. And there's no question, jesse, bounce and grind is the most confusing aspect of wedges to golfers. I don't know what it is from, you know what is bounce. Anyway, to that early question you asked to you know what about this grind or that grind? And I'm kind of a heretic or a contrarian, if you will, to this notion of bounce fitting that a lot of the companies and a lot of fitters they say, well, I can fit the bounce. And my question is that's great, but if you're going to fit bounce, then the first question is Terry, what is your next wedge lie going to look like? And I don't know what my next wedge lie is going to look like In my golf course. If I hit it in the left side of the front bunker on the first hole, I'm going to be in wet pack sand. But if I hit it.
Speaker 2:15 feet right of that into the right half of that bunker, I'm in soft sand. If I miss the bunker to the left I'm in the rough and it's where the downslope side of the green is probably pretty soft. But if I miss it five yards left of that it's where everybody walks up onto the green and it's pretty firm. So I don't know what my next wedge lie is going to look like. And again, jesse, you're a different animal. You're a you know plus handicap tour player, caliber type guy. You probably know what your next divot is going to look like because you're going to make that intentionally. On how you hit the shot, that 5, 8, 10, 12 handicapper tell me definitively how big his next divot's going to be. Well, if you don't know what size of divot you're going to take and you don't know why you're going to have, how am I going to prescribe a bounce for you? And so when I was in Scotland in 1990, my brother and I my late brother and I took a trip to Scotland. It was a wonderful bonding experience for us. Late in we were both 40, 42 years old and I had not messed with wedges much. I'd started thinking about them a little bit and I had a, you know, mainstream wedge in my bag and man, that tight turf on. We went over and played the new courts. It was the first evening we got there and that tight turf was tough. I mean, you know, the back wedge was skipping in the ball and so we had a morning off. The next morning we were walking around St Andrews, went into Octorloni's golf shop and I saw a grinding wheel and I asked him if I could borrow it. I went back to the hotel, ran back, got my wedge and I ground a bunch of the bounce off of the wedge, except to about the first quarter inch third of an inch of the sole, and then I ground a pretty severe bounce on the front of that all the way up to the first groove and by now I've taken a lot of weight off of the club and I've made the hosel. It looked like Igor. I mean, it was terrible looking golf club. So I packed about 15 grams of lead tape on the back of the club right over the logo on the wedge. It was up in the middle of the blade and man, that thing was magical.
Speaker 2:The rest of our trip in Scotland it was great. Out of the bunkers. It was great off the tight lies, the spin and the launch angles were lower than I was used to and the spin was higher than I was used to. And so that got me really coming back to the States and I went down and bought a bunch of used wedges and started grinding on them, and I had a friend of mine with a welder. We're welding on them and grinding on them, and that's where the concept of this Taylor sole came from and I built it into the wedges that Justin mentioned from reed lock art and then I, when I evolved into my own wedge company, eidolon, further refined it and along the way I'm also really thickening the top half of the wedge because this sole is so efficient with these two bounce angles that the sole is actually narrower, it's more like a tour blade iron in width.
Speaker 2:So you know it can handle that tight, hard, firm turf and what it does is it tends to. If you hit in a firm line, you know the death shot is hitting slightly behind that shot and the club bounces up into the belly of the ball. This sole is kind of weird in that when you hit behind the ball on a firm line it kind of scoots along the ground instead of bouncing back up. It just kind of scoots and so your ball comes out a little hot but it comes out with a ton of spin. So that sole design has been something I've been tweaking on through five different brands and I think we have this pretty perfected. I'm always messing with it, but I think it's as universal and versatile a soul as has ever been put on a wedge. And we kind of have a slogan at Edison fear no shot, because you go into that soft tight lie. You go into that firm tight lie. The bunker shot on three was in wet packed sand, but the bunker shot on seven was soft sand.
Speaker 2:The regular golfer doesn't have the opportunity that tour players have. You know, I read the other day where Justin Thomas shows up with like 10 wedges at every tournament to see what the course conditions. Well, we don't get to do that. You know we're going to drop six to $800 on a set of wedges and we're going to travel a little bit. It's going to be played in the wintertime and the summertime and my friend's course and my vacation, and you know the average golfer doesn't have that ability to. You know, have a battery of wedges to choose from. So I think the versatility in the soul is what we're looking for and the feedback I've gotten on this soul for 30 years is it's the best in the business for general, all around universal play. I'd love I've had some some very good players rave about it. I've had some mediocre players not get it.
Speaker 2:But the way I like to explain bounce in general to people like beginners and I like to help people that are in the early stage of learning is think of a wedge as a wedge and I'm going to read back here and grab one. But the idea is the ball is sitting on the ground. Wedge the club between the ball and the earth. The loft will make the ball go up, the bounce will make the club come back up. So the club is a wedge. Wedge it between the ball and the earth and you know the thing I see in most beginners they're trying to hit up on the ball. And I have a friend of mine she's a beginner and uh, and I said how are you going to hit up on a ball when the ball is sitting on the dirt? It's physically impossible to hit up on it, so you've got to hit down through it and I'm not a big divot taker. Um, you probably saw that clip with scotty shuffler and tiger woods when he was asking about the no divot thing. But I started getting some arthritis in my fingers in my fifties and I just changed the way I strike a ball. I clip it more, even with wedges, even with short arms. Um, but you know the but.
Speaker 2:The club is designed with a good, a good soul on the club. The club is designed to let you hit down through that shot and that bounce is going to reject that club. The word I use it. The earth is going to reject that club because of the bounce. And you know people get off into tour bounces and these low bounces and they'd see what Phil Mickelson's doing. And you know the worst guy on the Corn Ferry Tour is better than the best club player in America around the greens, because the best club player in America probably also has a job. And the guy on the Corn Ferry tour spends 50 hours a week working on that short game because you have to have one if you're going to play competitive golf, right? So you know.
Speaker 2:I think bounces, and what we've done at Edison is build a combination of two bounces in each of our wedges. Each loft has a little different configuration, from the 45 degree up to the 59, so that for the kind of shots you're likely to hit with that golf club, you're going to have a sole that's going to be pretty adaptable to whatever kind of goofy place your ball finds.
Speaker 3:You know, in the past old wedge designs, the Ping Ai 2, they had massive bounces but very narrow soles. Then the very lofted wedges, the 60-degree wedges, had very little bounce but huge soles. So you have managed to combine these two concepts together in one sole. My next question is this right, is the 2.0 Kaler sole the last iteration, or will there be something else to come?
Speaker 2:You know, justin, I'm a golf club guy and I'm a tinkerer, and I'm already working on the next generation of wedges, exploring technologies. You know, to me, the holy grail, if you will, of wedge play is a versatile, sole, consistent launch and consistent spin. And so to me, you know, when I look at the wedge category, nobody talks about their clubhead design. Yet that's the entire story in drivers, it's the entire story in irons, it's the entire story in putters, but nobody really talks about you know what we did with the clubhead to improve your performance, and so, yeah, I'm always working to make it better.
Speaker 2:The original Edison wedges were better than anything we tested against, but then I had this idea of I can make them better. And so the Edison 2.0, we move 14, 18 grams of weight around the club head, and everybody that's traded up from our first ones to our second ones is raving about them. Because, you know, any club designer, car designer, fish and rod designer, you're always trying to do better work than you already did, and so I'm no different. I'm always looking to figure out how can I do better than that one.
Speaker 3:Amazing. So you mentioned something about reed lock hard, where you place the mass higher up in the toe, and that was what 30, what close to 30 years ago, and now every major wedge manufacturer has more high toe muscle. I call it. Yeah, it is flattering, Everyone has that.
Speaker 2:It's flattering. Every company has moved some mass, some thickness up into the top of the blade. None of them are where my Reed Lockhart wedges were in the mid-90s. So right now they're still 30 years behind what I'm willing to do. But I think the reason for that is and, jess, I think you can speak to this more but I saw the tease last week of the new Titleist Boeke Wedges.
Speaker 2:I have great respect for Titleist. I mean, to me it's the premier brand of golf. I have great respect for Bob Boeke, aaron Dill and what those guys do with tour players. But I've always said tour players don't want their wedges to change because they want predictability. And so there was a comment that Jordan Spieth made that he immediately put the new SM10s in the bag, took the SM9s out. If a tour player can swap his entire wedges out, that tells me they're the same as his old ones, because if not he's going to have to relearn a lot of touch shots around the greens and he doesn't have time to do that. But Jordan Spieth, the comment, the quote that was published, is he said they did something with the waiting and now that little wedge, the certain wedge shot, doesn't have a tendency to turn over. What amateur golfer has a problem with a little draw on his wedge shots? Nobody but Jordan Spieth has that little trouble that comes up and this wedge fixed that.
Speaker 2:Well you know that average amateur golfer has got exactly the opposite problem it's it's popping up high and right. So you know I've always said that that these guys are so good. I mean, jesse, you've been around them a lot. Justin, you've been around players. You can put a two foot hula hoop at 40 feet and Jordan Spieth can land a ball, and it's seven different ways. If I handed him my wedge and he hit that shot, it's going to fly three feet past the circle. He's going to hand it back to me and say I can't use this because it didn't do what I expected. I can't afford at the tour level player cannot afford to relearn this massive arsenal of short game shots that he's got and he knows how to hit it you know, low with lots of spin, low with a little bit of spin, low with no spin.
Speaker 2:Ben Crenshaw showed me some things back in the 90s when I was working with him. You know I mean he hit a bump and run, shot with a sand wedge from 70 yards, landed 10 yards short of the green and chased 50 feet back to the hole. I said how the heck do you do that with a sand wedge? When the next shot he hit behind the flag, sucked it back, can beat the same golf club. You know I mean these guys have skills, they're sick. I mean you know, and and the guys that are out there in the top 50, you know, top a hundred, top 200 golfers. I mean they've just got exquisite skills.
Speaker 2:And you know, around the greens, and I think you know I know players that you know play into my spring profile, greens and regulation. My best 80% of my golf is good as the tour average and approximately the whole Given club to club. My six iron is 155 and theirs is 195. But the game is so different with the professionals. But the green complexes have gotten brutally tougher over the last 30 or 40 years and short games have gotten brutally better to deal with them. I mean they're magical. So you know, like say I'm, I'm looking for. You know the tour player is the focus of the big brands, cause that's where they validate their product. And you know your golfer, justin, your rank and fall golfer, he's not trying to play X flex shafts and he's not playing tour blade irons. He's carrying two or three hybrids instead of maybe one Might have a nine wood in the bag playing A-Flex graphite and he's trying to play a tour wedge and that's the most finicky club in the whole bag. It's the most unforgiving clubs in the game. And you know, listening to Parker McLaughlin last week, you know this is a challenging part of the game because every shot with a wedge is a glancing blow because of the loft. You know a seven iron is a pretty direct strike. A driver is a very direct strike and so you don't get these wide variety of impacts with a seven iron, a driver that you get with a wedge. I mean you let your club head, pass your hands just a little bit. Ball catches a little high in the face. There's a lot of different things that are going to happen off that wedge face. That won't happen off of a 7-iron or an 8-iron or a driver, so I'm kind of a junkie for them.
Speaker 2:But you know, putting the mass up in the top of the golf club, it optimizes smash factor and I liken it to your wedge. When you hit that shot high in the face and you look at your wedge even the new ones there's still not much mass up there. And it's like taking a hammer and turning it on its side. It's the same hammer but there's no mass behind the strike anymore, and so the hammer on its side doesn't do a very good job at all. You know you could take a and I always used to use this analogy I could take a two-pound sledgehammer and reshape it into a two-pound, 12-inch skillet. And the 12-inch skillet it's the same two pounds of steel. But it can't drive a nail as good as that hammer because the mass has all been distributed. So when I get into wedges I think mass needs to be right behind the point of impact. If you hit it a little high in the face, hit it a little toward toe, I need thickness there. I need thickness there. I need meat there to make that ball perform.
Speaker 3:That's my approach to wedges, and we have thousands of people are swearing by it, so I guess we're doing the right thing. Indeed, smash factor for wedges is something that's rarely discussed, so what do you prescribe as the ideal smash factor in general? I know for different shots you're going to want different types of smash factor, but I'm talking about the average Joe who's got not much time to practice his distance wedges. What would you say is an ideal smash factor for these guys?
Speaker 2:Well, what we see in robotic testing, where we measure smash factor, is every wedge on the market today. The tour wedges are optimized between the second and fifth groove because that's where tour players have learned to hit. Wedges are optimized between the second and fifth groove because that's where tour players have learned to hit wedges. So in a wedge at 90 yards you'll see a smash factor down there around that third or fourth groove of about 1.18 to 1.2 is about as high as we see it. Get the challenge with these tour wedges. When you move up three grooves up the face, it goes down about 1.03. And you move another three or four grooves up the face, that goes down to about 1.03. And you move another three or four grooves up the face, it goes down to about 0.9. So now you're talking at 90 yards. You know a half an inch, you know five-eighths of an inch miss is going to cost you 50 feet in distance and everybody that's listening knows that shot hit high on the face. The ball's sitting a little bit in the rough. The ball's caught high in the face and it doesn't go anywhere and that's built into the golf club. That's not your, I mean nobody, but tour players hit it on the second to fifth groove most of the time. They don't even do it all the time, right, jesse Ball sitting up in the rough, they catch it high in the face. But what we did with our weighting is we mitigated? I mean, every golf club has a perfect impact point. What we did is move the optimum impact point from the third or fourth groove up to the fifth or sixth groove, which is where amateur golfers are centering their impact. So now my club is optimized three grooves higher than a tour wedge. What that also allows me to do is when you get down to that tour strike, I'm matching that smash factor. But a half an inch higher I'm optimizing the smash factor 15, 20 percent better than the tour wedge will do when you catch that ball high in the face.
Speaker 2:So you know I was listening to Parker and his thing. He was talking about working with Paul Azinger and around the greens Paul liked to hit his wedge shots out toward the toe to deaden them a little bit. What amateur golfer can do that? Hit it a quarter inch toward the toe on purpose? No, that's an accident if they hit it out there. So you know, I look at tour wedges and, jesse, I bet I could go in your closet and find wedges that have a penny size wear spot between the second and fifth groove. But when you look at amateur golfers and Justin, you go out to the course that you play, go in the bag room and you're going to see silver dollar size patterns centered around the fifth groove or sixth, the jump and so much you can you can tell that golfer, you need to go spend 500 hours learning how to hit wedges between the second fifth groove, or you can buy a wedge that's built to be optimized where you hit it, which is up around the fifth groove.
Speaker 2:You know, bluffier fairways, more shots out of the rough, you know, know not as good a technique and it's really that simple. It's you design for the, for the target. I mean, a three wood doesn't look like a driver because it's designed to do something very different, and an A flex shaft performs differently than an X because it's designed for a different golfer profile. My wedges are designed for a different golfer profile. It's the 5 to 20 handicapper and higher that wants to make wedge play easier, which is what parker talks a lot about.
Speaker 2:I love this conversations about simplify everything and you know and and you know I talk with teaching pros a lot and it's like, if you can teach people to be pretty darn good inside 50 yards, hit the ball in the air with enough spin to stop it in a reasonable distance, you can play any golf course. And now you don't have those holes where it took you five to get up and down from 40 yards. You know, three becomes your standard. Two becomes more common than more than three and all of a sudden, you know, your handicap drops, whether you're playing to an eight or a 28. If you get good inside 30 yards, your handicap's coming down. I mean, you know that's how tour players shoot. You know 67s and hit nine greens. You know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they score better. You don't hear them say, oh, I'm hitting it further this week, although there is some kind of correlation, but it's usually the short game that's working when they win that particular week. And then also, terry, to your point 12 players play a different game, they need different equipment and we've talked about impact location. Most amateurs hit their wedges on the geometric sweet spot, whereas 12 players go for impact low on the face and in the case of Azinger and Freddie Couples, they go for the toe.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, these guys have skills that you know, regular golfers, most of us, we can't even dream about. But you know. Back to what Parker was talking about. You know he's focused on the technique of keeping your technique as simple as possible and using different clubs to get four different outcomes with that same swing.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge believer in that and I think that most golfers you know, and people get caught up in this how many wedges should I carry? And it's another kind of you know, trigger of mine is everybody's got a club in their bag with a P on the bottom. That is no longer a pitching wedge, that is a 42 to 45 degree golf club. Now you cannot hit true pitch shots with something that you know 20 years ago had an eight on the bottom of it. It's, you know, it's your 10th iron, it's after the nine, but it's not a true wedge anymore, it's just your 10th iron, because irons continue to get strengthened so much. And the other thing I see happening because of that strengthening is these fitters are saying well, we need to add the matching A wedge or the matching G wedge or whatever. Well, now I'm applying six iron technology to my 48 to 50 degree golf club and I was pointing this out a while back to somebody and they never thought about this. But in today's world the seven irons kind of that everybody's fitting off of is a 28, 27, 29 degree golf club and if you think about that seven iron that seven iron to your driver which is 10 or 12, is only 16 or 17 degrees to your driver, but that 28 degree seven iron to your gap wedge is almost 20 degrees. Nobody ever said I love my six iron. Can you make me a driver that looks just like it? So why would a pitching wedge be engineered and a gap wedge and an approach wedge be engineered with six iron technologies? That technology is designed to win the launch monitor war. It's designed to give you the longest distance in the highest ball flight in the fitting bay with the launch monitor.
Speaker 2:And that's not good scoring club technology and we throw this word wedges around. I did an interview with Matt Saturnas at Plugged In Golf about what is a wedge and that's not good scoring club technology and we throw this word wedges around. I did an interview with Matt Saturnas at Plugged In Golf about what is a wedge. What word would you describe a wedge? Is it a club with bounce, is it a club with over X degrees aloft? And you know, I mean it's kind of a word that we don't even know how to define it anymore.
Speaker 2:So I think that people need to pay real attention to the set within a set, which I look at golf as my clubs under 22, 24 degrees are my distance clubs, from 24 to about 44 are my positioning clubs, and 44 to 60 or so are my scoring clubs. You got three different sets of golf clubs in your bag and they have different purposes. I talk a lot about this is your team. You take a driver and a putter. Those are your specialty weapons. You've got 12 men on your team here to make sure you're equipped for every shot the golf course can throw at you, and I think people don't spend enough time thinking about putting their team together, and so that's kind of analogy that I use.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about wedge fitting bag setup. What's an ideal gap between the modern pitching wedge and between the other wedges in one's bag?
Speaker 2:So I call it the P club, the P club and I think the gapping is different for everybody. I think optimum gapping because the stronger your bigger, the stronger your strength profile. Like you know, jesse's, you know a tour caliber player. You know his strength profile is very different than mine. I'm, you know, 72 years old and so you know to me, you know, I'm looking at 10 to 12 yard gaps in the short end of my set. So I can really, you know, don't have to do a lot of manipulation, we don't have to do a lot of manipulation.
Speaker 2:But I'm okay with 12 or 15, 16 yard gaps at the long end because a 5-iron shot that's 20 or 30 feet long or short is a pretty good 5-iron. But a gap wedge shot that's 25 or 30 feet long is not a very good gap wedge shot. So I've always been a believer in decreasing gaps as you get closer to the hole. For most people 4 or 5 degree gapping in their lofts will give them those distance differentials they're looking at. But I could make a case for a tour player who hits the peak club 150. If he only carries three wedges he's going to have 15, 18 yard gaps and that's a lot when you're playing for money. And I've had amateur golfers go. I'm really good at the half wedge shots. I said well then, why are you still a 17? If you're good at half wedges, how can you be a 17 handicap? It doesn't make any sense to me. You're not as good as you think you are, but it's a lot easier to. And I wrote a little book Justin was talking about my wedge company score and I wrote a little booklet called the shot control routine for regular golfers to show them how to precisely grip down a half, an inch and an inch on clubs to change yards. Don't change your swing, don't try to hit it easy, just grip down on the club and hit it and if you want a lower trajectory shot, you know, go to your lower loft and grip down the same length as the higher loft and I mean you can. Golf club engineering is was pretty well established by the fifties and sixties as to how a set makeup should be Lying goals and links and all that have been pretty consistent. So you know, I think that the more options you have in prime scoring range and I think some people carry too many, I think a lot of the shorter profile hitters, you know that hit a driver 190, they're carrying way too many long clubs. They don't have enough differential between their 3-wood, their 5-wood, their 9-wood. I have a good friend of mine I said look, when you're playing with me you got driver off the tee and 9-wood everywhere else. You know, I mean until you get an inside 7-iron range. I mean you know, I think getting the gapping, once you start getting into a skill level where you're in the high teens, low teens, high single digit handicap, you're starting to get an impact, repeatability that you can start really working on your gapping.
Speaker 2:But you know to your point about wedge fitting, justin, I think the thing that's totally not talked about enough in wedges is shafts. I mean that shaft is the engine of that golf club in a wedge, just like it is in that driver. It's determining how that club's going to perform. And I see so many golfers that have gone to 50, 60, 70 gram graphite in their irons and they're playing that 115, 130 gram wedge shaft and there's such a disconnect there in feel and performance there's no way they can optimize their wedge play. So I'm a big believer in what I call the seamless transition.
Speaker 2:Make sure your wedges just continue the feel of your irons, where you're not adjusting to different golf clubs. You know you get out of the cart with your range finder and walk over there and you've got a you know your P club with a 70 gram more flex graphite and your wedge has a 130 grams deflex steel in it. You think you can make the same swing. Those clubs are 60 grams apart. You can't make the same swing with them, you know.
Speaker 2:And so get the line, go right, get the shaft right and work on the distance. You know the, the loft gapping and it's hard to go wrong with four degree gapping, which is why we went to odd number lofts on the Edisonisons, because the P clubs in the set are not 48 degrees anymore, they're 45 or 43. I saw a set the other day. It's got a 41 and a half degree club with a P on the bottom of it. It's like where's this madness ever going to end, you know? But I think the key is when you're 135 yards or 112 yards or 160 yards, do you know what club to pull out of the bag and what to hit?
Speaker 3:You know what shot to hit.
Speaker 2:Doesn't matter what you do it with.
Speaker 3:You know so besides coming from a perspective of field, do grips and swing weight affect one's wedge game?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, Justin, the what.
Speaker 3:Well, besides a field perspective, do grips and swing weight affect one's wedge game?
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk about the latter one first. I think wedges need to have a little heavier swing weight affect one's wedge game. Well, let's talk about the latter one first. I think wedges need to have a little heavier swing weight because you're hitting so many of these finesse shots around the greens. You need to have a little heavier head on that club to give you the feedback.
Speaker 2:When it comes to grips, this is your only connection with the golf club. I'm a firm believer in making sure your driver to your highest lofted wedge have the same grip on them so that you're not adjusting the different fields. And I see so many people out there. You know they got this grip on their driver and this grip on their pre-wood and this grip on their irons and this other grip on their wedges. I mean you can't get a consistency of how your hands nest on that golf club. The one thing I do like in wedges is the extended length grips. Um lambkin makes a real nice one called the cross line 1150, where it's a. It's a reduced taper, which I do like reduced taper on on wedges because it lets you, when you grip down on the club, the grip doesn't get slimmer, because when it gets slimmer. It makes you get handsier, and we want to. We want your hands to be quiet when you're playing wedges, um, but I do believe you need consistency of texture and consistently of size, um, with the, with the only exception, like that, being maybe you want your, your lower hand, built up a little more in your, in your wedges, just to kind of keep your hands a little quieter. Um, two wraps of tape under the lower half of the grip does amazing things for helping you be quieter.
Speaker 2:But what's interesting in grips is, I see, 20 years ago a midsize grip was 5% of our orders and now it's a third. And I think because people are going to grip in the club more in their palms or swinging it like a baseball bat, and that big grip feels better. But you know, it's, I just think, the average golfer. You put the big grip in your hands and you're slicing the balls Like there's the two things kind of go hand in hand there, because that big grip slowed up your hand action. You're not square in the face and so.
Speaker 2:But I'm a big believer in the right grips and a little heavier swing weights. Our standards are D3 on the lower lofts, d4 on the higher lofts, you know, and this is a very little bit amount of weight but even recreational players can feel that. But I like to keep the overall weight of the club matched to the strength profile. And I've got a senior player here that's playing 60 gram, 50 gram graphite in their irons. We need to get that wedge down to, I believe, a little heavier than that, but not dramatically. So I mean, like in my bag I play 70 gram KBS graphite. In my irons I play 80 gram in my wedges and they're a little softer but they're an 80 gram. Just, I have a little more mass for that field shot around the green, a little more weight in my hands.
Speaker 2:But I look at these ladies and juniors and seniors carrying 130 gram steel shafted wedges. You don't have the forearm strength to hit the shots that you could hit If you'd put a 70, 80 gram shaft in that wedge. You could then hit the shots because you have the strength. I mean you're you're trying to wield the same weight of golf club that Tiger Woods and and books kept the wield, but you've got 70 year old arm strength. You know you're not a Popeye like those guys. So it, and I've shown people, if you lighten that wedge up. They by like those guys. So I've shown people if you lighten that wedge up, they can hit more shots.
Speaker 3:They can be more manipulative with it and then have more fun. Forged and cast Any real difference between forged hits and cast hits? Any real difference?
Speaker 2:You know that's a conversation that's been had in the game forever. Some of the best seller wedges in golf are cast. I tend to like forging for a couple of reasons. One, I think it's a higher quality product, and Edison is all about high quality. It allows us to be more confident when we're making loft and lie adjustments, bending that forging than a casting Depends on.
Speaker 2:You know, by nature a casting doesn't have to be harder than a forging. I always tell people sticks of butter are cast and they're not hard unless they're frozen, you know. But so it's more about the material. But when I first got in the golf club business and learning about how heads were made, you know, in the early pings and you know these cavity back clubs were made out of 17-4 stainless, which is a very hard material. But the term that was told me is it's foundry friendly. The foundry knows what that material does in casting and they hadn't experimented because they didn't have anybody in medical supplies or silverware or other things that were cast. They didn't have people asking for soft and the score wedges that Justin mentioned he's a big fan of.
Speaker 2:We did what's called a form forging. So it was a cast head but then it went into a forging die for the last step. So it compressed that cast metal, particularly on the perimeter. The shell of the club had a much denser forged structure than the interior of the club, which was more cast, which under a microscope is crystalline, which under a microscope is crystalline. But the feel of the golf glove and the performance of the golf glove is mainly determined by the shaping and the weight distribution than it is by the structure. I mean, all things being equal. I mean you know most of the cast golf gloves are. They're cast out of an 8620 carbon steel and then chrome bladed. That's pretty malleable.
Speaker 2:But I bought a set of quote forged irons from one of the major brands to see how that particular technology performed. I put them on the loft and line machine to bend them two degrees flat. I could not make that golf club bend. It was not a gas golf club, it was not a carbon steel golf club, it was something brutally hard. I mean I'm 160 pounds but I'm up on my bending bar, up on my toes and putting my whole weight I could not move that club two degrees flat. And with our forgings I can get on there in one hand I can move that golf club.
Speaker 2:So I think the casting versus forging is, justin, is really more about the design of the club and the metallurgy than the process. I mean, you could cast a club out of steel so soft that the lye would change on it, you know for a shot. So it's really more about the material and the shaping than it is about the process. That said, forging technology has come so far. We use a 5X forging process. Then that club comes out of the last forging die. I mean it's almost it's ready to put a final polish on it and start machining the grooves and nozzle.
Speaker 2:You know which used to be. There was so much hand work and a forging. Only a handful of places, like Hogan in Fort Worth, you know, really did their own club heads and forging because there was so much hand work and just wasn't enough. I mean that craftsman is going to burn up a lot of golf club heads figuring out how to make an iron look right, so but the quality of all the golf clubs is just so good today. You know, again, I'm a forging guy. That's probably always new forgings. I say that and I may change that, who knows.
Speaker 3:You mentioned polish. Let's talk a little bit about the finish of the golf club and how it affects our wedge shot.
Speaker 2:Well, you know there's a lot of dialogue about that too, about the rusting finishes. I read something the other day. Somebody did a test that said that that raw finish actually can lose spin because of the residual rust and dust on the face of that golf club. You know the primary impact, or you know. So finish has two purposes. One, to make it look pretty, so that you like the look of the glove in your bag. Second is protect a corrosive metal like a Ford steel clubhead. It's got to have chrome or some other kind of finish on it to protect it or it's going to rust to pieces, particularly like now where we are on the Gulf Coast of Texas and probably Singapore. Same way, if you've got a saltier environment maybe then what Jess sees. But you know, these black finishes and dark finishes, most of them actually make the surface of the club a little harder as well, so that may affect your feel. You know chrome plating is so microscopically thin. Chrome is an extremely hard material and it's there to protect the integrity of that golf club.
Speaker 2:And you know, some people say your wedges are worn out after 70 rounds. Well, there are 50 rounds or whatever, but that depends on what kind of turf you play in, what kind of shots you hit, how often you're in the bunkers, how much you practice. I always tell people, if you just take a simple magnifying glass or a photographer's loop and look at your face, your wedge, if If the chrome is not worn off the edge of the grooves, then the groove edge isn't worn yet. And grooves is another whole topic about spin and grooves, and nobody talks about how the shape of the clubhead can affect spin. But you know, contrasting our wedges, if we look at driver design for example, the technology is the pursuit of high launch, low spin, and they get that by getting the weight as low in the driver as they possibly can get it. And you know the old Persimmon days, which y'all probably aren't old enough to have had to play those. But you know the center of gravity of that club was up in the center, so you had to hit the club way up in the center to.
Speaker 2:You know, to keep. You know, keep spin rate and smash, factor up these modern drivers. There's so much weight in the bottom, particularly now when they're experimenting with all these carbon shells and this kind of thing. Well, if you look at your wedge, where is all the weight. The weight's in the bottom of the golf club. So by design, forget the loft for a minute.
Speaker 2:By design that club wants to launch high with no spin. But good wedge play means low launch with lots of spin. So the club head doesn't want to do that. If a club head could want to do something. So the other part of putting as much weight high in the club as I do is it optimizes gear effect where, no matter where on the face, you make contact. I've got more club head above that spot than anybody in golf and that optimizes your effect. Keep launch, angle down and spin right up.
Speaker 2:And you know, everybody knows the old adage thin to win. And you catch that short iron shot a little thin and it's kind of a heater but it hits the back of the green and just sizzles to a stop because your effect was optimized when you hit it that thin. Not a, not an eyebrows skull, but a shot caught a little thin will always have a lot of spin on it, regardless of the club, because more mass is above that point of impact. And likewise when you catch that ball out of the rough, whether it's a seven iron or a wedge, it's caught high in the face. It's kind of knuckleballing because you know all the mass was below that point of impact. So you know, the golf ball doesn't know anything except the properties of the club at impact. It doesn't know who's swinging it it could be a 14-year-old girl or a 75-year-old guy or a tour player. The ball's only going to react to the properties of impact, which is speed and purity of strike and where the mass was in that golf club.
Speaker 3:Last question for me how should our listeners practice to get better in their wedge game?
Speaker 2:How should they what? I'm sorry, Justin.
Speaker 3:How should our listeners practice to get better in their wedge game?
Speaker 2:So you know, it's the old thing about how do you get to Carnegie Hall Practice, practice, practice. You know, I think you take a tip and Jesse, correct me if I'm wrong but I would guess that the average tour player spends half of their practice time on wedges and the other half on everything else. It would be pretty close to that, I bet. And if the tour player needs to practice wedges with a half to a third of their practice time, then you probably need to do a half to two thirds of your practice time. So but I'm a big believer in good instruction and you know and there's a lot of videos out there, that's but basic fundamentals. Uh of a good.
Speaker 2:If you have a good technique to hit a 30 yard shot, what you're doing through impact is really what's happening on a full seven iron and a full three wood as well. If you understand the proper motion of the body and the club through the impact zone, that's going to produce better 20-yard wedge shots, better full seven irons, better drives. And most golfers they don't. And one of the things that I preach big, big, big is that people are misdirected from the day they take up golf because they think they're going to play right-handed or left-handed and that means that implies in my head I'm going to take the club in my right hand, I'm going to hit the ball with it. And you can't do that. And I always tell people I work with if you stand behind the ball and look down the target line, if you're going to stand on the left side of the ball, you're playing a left-sided game. And if you're going to stand on the right side of the ball, like Phil Mickelson, you're going to play a right-sided game and it's not handed, it's sided. And you've got to have that lead side. The side closest to the target, has got to control the golf swing, whether it's a putt or whether it's a drive or everything in between. People just can't get there. And you know, handed it handedly, let's call it that way.
Speaker 2:So you know, take the time to go learn a good technique and practice hitting 10 yard, 12 yard, 15 yard shots. And you know, justin, we're in the mid of winter in the U? S here and a lot of people in the Northern half country, they're not going to see grass for another two months or three months. The best place to work on your technique is away from a golf ball and away from the range and practice the movements. Practice, you know, releasing your body the way you want, keeping the relationship, and you can practice these things, you know, in a bedroom or in the garage, whatever. You don't take full swings, just get the feel of how the club and the body move together, how the hands and the body and the club move in a one piece motion.
Speaker 2:Jesse, I've always thought that Steve Stricker would like the coolest model to watch, because his golf swing looks like it has one moving part. It doesn't. It's much more complex, but then he makes it look like it's one moving part rotate back, rotate through, and he's about as good as they get out there for consistency.
Speaker 1:He may be the best wedge parter in the world at 50, whatever 57.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he spends a lot of his winters doing indoor practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, and I think anything worth doing is worth doing to the best of your ability. And again, your listeners probably run the wide range. There are people out there who don't even know where their practice range is. They go to the first tee, take a practice swing and off they go and I guess that person really doesn't care if they get better or not. But for people that really want to get better, you know, again, you go back and learn how to hit that 20-yard shot with consistency, consistent flight, consistent spin. Your entire tee to green game is going to get better, because what you're doing in that 20-yard shot is just a miniature of the 60-yard shot and the 160-yard shot and the 250-yard shot, what that club and the body and the hands are doing through impact. It's pretty much the same on every shot if you're doing it right. So it's easier to learn at 20-yard club head speed than at full swing club head speed.
Speaker 3:Is the score booklet still available for our listeners?
Speaker 2:No, I haven't published that in a while. I actually ran across a copy the other day and I said I need to read, you know, update this booklet and republish it. So that's a project for this year, because it was a good little book about, you know, bringing consistency to your scoring. So it used to be another project, justin, like I needed that on my plate, but it needs to be done. It was a good product.
Speaker 3:I still have it in PDF format. Yeah, it needs to be done. It was a good product. I still have it in PDF format. Yeah, it's a great little book.
Speaker 2:So my graphic designer that worked with me on that book still has it in her Adobe Illustrator file, so I need to go dust it off and redo it. And God, self-publishing is so much easier these days than it was then, so if I'll just go dust it off and spend a weekend on it, I'd probably have it where I want it.
Speaker 3:Indeed just go dust it off and spend a weekend on it. I'd probably have it where.
Speaker 2:I wanted it Indeed. How can our listeners contact you and find out more? So we're at edisonwedgescom. You're going to find a lot of information on that site. We're actually rebuilding the site right now and trying to streamline the process of selecting your wedges. We have an exercise on there called Wedge Fit. That's a little exchange of questions and answers that lets us guide you to the kind of wedges.
Speaker 2:We are a custom wedge company. We build every wedge for the player that's going to play them. We have no stock golf clubs laying around and we get 90% of our orders go out within five working days, because that's what we do every day. We build custom and we just think that's the way golf clubs ought to be done. So we have a wide shaft selection, but we'll build on any shaft available in the market. We do 10 or 15% of our wedges on special order shafts because people want that and we're all about accommodating people's needs.
Speaker 2:But it's EdisonWedgescom and spend some time there and and you're going to hear and read a lot of things that I've been talking about today about weight distribution and smash factor and gear effect and sole design um, because it's important. But we think we're doing the best job in the wedge category and um and we have a hundred percent risk-free trial We'll build you a wedge custom, send it to you, let you play it If you don't like it. Sometime we find that a shaft change is all that was needed. People ordered a shaft. That wasn't right, but we have, you know, one or two out of a hundred. We're looking for miracles and we're not in the miracles business, so we don't mind taking it back. I don't want anybody to have an Edison wedge in their bag if they don't like it. So you know we'll take it back and you're out. Nothing but an experience.
Speaker 3:There you have it, the master of wedge design, terry Kaler.
Speaker 2:Thank you, jesse, thank you.