Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Hello and welcome to Flaghunters ! It is a privilege to bring to you this powerful insight into playing better Golf. In all my years of being in the game of Golf from competing at a high amateur level, to caddying, teaching, and being a overall Golf geek, I have an insatiable, curiosity driven desire to get down to the bottom of what it takes to truly get better playing the game of Golf that we all unconditionally love. This has been one of the greatest journeys of my life and I am deeply grateful for all that Golf has given me. Thank you for joining me in this incredible journey. This is my ever evolving love letter to Golf. Jesse Perryman P.S. Please Rate, Review and Subscribe !
Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Unlocking Your Best Golf Game: John Mazzinoble and Billy McKinney on JumboMax Grips and Personalized Fittings
Feel free to text me at (831)275-8804
Unlock the secrets to a better golf game with insights from John Mazzinoble of JumboMax Grips and Southern California golf Hall of Fame teacher Billy McKinney. Discover how the right grip can drastically improve your comfort and performance on the course. I share my personal journey with JumboMax grips and provide a sneak peek into the upcoming fitting centers focused on personalized service and active listening.
Tune in to learn about the innovation behind JumboMax golf grips, a solution that stands up to extensive research and cutting-edge technology. We bust myths about larger grips leading to slicing and explain how they actually promote relaxed hands and wrists, optimizing swing efficiency. From reducing hand tension to aiding golfers with arthritis, the benefits are vast and touch every age and skill level, including a highlight on professional success stories like Bryson DeChambeau and Braden Shattuck.
We dive into the critical role of proper grip fitting, often overlooked despite its importance. Hear about legendary golfers and rising stars who have thrived with the right grips, and explore the JumboMax fitting app designed to find your perfect grip size and weight. Learn about the anatomy behind grip technology and the future collaborations poised to revolutionize your golf experience. Get ready to dial in your game with expert insights and the latest advancements from JumboMax and our esteemed guests.
To reach Billy, email him at billymckinneycare@gmail.com
To reach Justin Tang, his email is Justin@elitegolfswing.com
To reach Jesse, email him at jesse@flaguntersgolf.com
And of course www.jumbomax.com
A nod and a wink to TaylorMade and Adidas for their support
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. My name is Jesse Perryman and, along with Justin Tang, my co-host. We thank you for tuning in. This week it's just myself with John Mazzinobla from Jumbo Max Grips. I'm sure that most of the folks that listen to this podcast are familiar with Jumbo Max being primarily represented on the live tour these days by Bryson DeChambeau. He was pretty much a part of the company or at least a big contributing factor to it for the better part of the last 10 to 15 years, for as long as I've known Bryson, and he's worn these, used these grips and we have Bill. Also. We have my friend and Southern California Hall of Fame teacher, bill McKinney, who, after a little bit of a hiatus from teaching, he is back to teaching and we'll make sure that you have all the pertinent information to get ahold of him, because he truly is one of the best coaches in the world and a good friend and I trust him.
Speaker 1:So we talk about the grip y'all. How important is it? I mean you can argue and say it's the most important thing, for obvious reasons and all of the things that you've heard, mostly true. Pretty much. How you grip the club is how you're going to deliver the golf club, and your grip is going to determine your swing dynamics and how to marry your intentions with what you want to do with a golf ball is going through the grip. Grip's very important and we say it on the podcast a couple of times. We make a few references that I don't need to repeat here in this introduction, but I do know that when you put your hands on a golf club and it feels good, the grip is the primary sensory. Then you're, then you're going to sense the weight of the club, whether it's heavy or light and so on and so forth. But how your hands fit onto the grip really is everything. It provides not only the comfortability with your hands, but I believe when your hands feel good on the golf club, it allows your subconscious just to have that much more ability to let it go subconscious just to have that much more ability to let let it go. You just feel more comfortable, more relaxed about it because the golf club feels great in your hands.
Speaker 1:And, as a side note, I've got three jumbo max grips on my wedges. I haven't put them all on my clubs because I'm kind of weird like that. I'm probably will do it this winter, because the grips that john sent me were fabulous. They're on the lighter weight side so I could feel the club head. The club head feels heavier to me, which is I'm a big fan of, but that's just. That's just me. Uh, jumbo Max provides different sizes and shapes and feels according to how you want to swing the golf club.
Speaker 1:And, coming soon to a lot of parts here in the United States, you're going to have Jumbo Max fitting centers. You're going to have the ability to go meet with someone who is a representative of Jumbo Max grips, have a fitting session with your grips, and it's a really cool thing Very thoughtful, very insightful and very, very understanding. Everybody who's a part of this company is great at active listening, which is a rare thing these days, and it's a testament to John Mazzanoboli, the owner-operator. That's how he runs his life, that's how he runs his company and it comes out in the grips. He runs his life, that's how he runs his company and it comes out in the grips. So I would just encourage you also to download the Jumbo Max bidding app on your phone. It's a one minute learning curve and a five minute process maybe, and I've done it so many times just to see if I can get different results, and it always keeps coming back to the very same grip that John sent me and it just feels amazing in my hands. It really does so.
Speaker 1:Jumbomaxgrips JumboMaxcom, and feel free to DM me if you want any other information on it. How you get a hold of Billy McKinney and he's now teaching and he's also a JumboMax representative and has been for a long time uh, you can feel free to email him at billymckinneycarecom or I think it's. Uh, yeah, wwwit's Billy. Billy McKinney care Gmail. All one word Billy McKinney at Gmail, and I'll make sure to put it in the show notes. Feel free to reach out to him. He's one of the best. He's a holistic teacher, he's been on the podcast several times before and somebody I trust implicitly and I'm pretty sensitive about my trust when it comes to how to play this game. Tune in jumbomaxcom, get the app. Feel free to get a hold of me. Feel free to message Jumbo Max and Billy McKinney Secrets on Instagram. Email billymckinneycare at gmailcom. Thank you everybody. Have a great day.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another edition of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. You know who I am but just in case you don't, my name is Jesse Perryman and I am the host, and this week we got a couple of special guys on. One guy you've heard of Southern California Teacher of the Year multiple times, southern California teacher Hall of Fame, the man who I give my utmost respect to in the years, the decades of research, development and study. He was a GSEM in the golfing machine those who know the golfing machine and he has been on the pod many times. My good friend, billy McKinney, and a guy that I've been trying to get his ass on. He's just too busy all over the world. He has an incredible success story.
Speaker 2:I just put on one of his grips for the first time and I liked it so much I immediately installed it, and he is proudly represented by a guy that all of you may know. His name is Bryson DeChambeau. This is John Mazzanoboli, owner operator of jumbo back scripts, a great friend of mine and, uh, these, these grips are. There's something to them y'all. John welcome, billy welcome thanks, jesse.
Speaker 3:Pleasure to be on with uh some good friends. Jesse and billy known you guys for a long time and uh you're both experts at what you do, so it's great to be on with you guys amazing.
Speaker 4:Thank you guys and thanks jesse for having me. So it's great to be on with you guys. Thank you guys, and thanks Jesse for having me on again, it's a great honor.
Speaker 2:As always, let's have some fun talking about the grips baby. I mean if you believe or know of the homunculus theory. Homunculus, did I pronounce that right, billy? Homunculus, homunculus.
Speaker 3:Homunculus, homunculus, homunculus, homunculus, okay, homunculus, homunculus.
Speaker 2:That the hands have nerve endings that operate more than what 30% of the brain.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's right around that they take up the most space on the motor cortex. I got some factoids about all that stuff Right, I'm taking diligent notes.
Speaker 3:All right, I'm taking diligent notes here. Jesse, yeah, absolutely Jesse, diligent notes here, jesse, yeah, jesse here's the thing how do you spell humongous? Did you spell that? I know you know that.
Speaker 4:Humongous, humongous.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But apparently it's really big.
Speaker 3:It's code word for really big yeah.
Speaker 4:Really For whose pleasure? Um, it's apparently the fact about that is a quarter of your brain's motor cortex is dedicated to moving your hand muscles. So the hand, that that's more than any other part of the body. You know, obviously, your eyes and your, your mouth we're jabbering with right now, but your hands sense the world big time. And if you ever saw the model of the homunculus that jesse's talking about, john, it shows the hands which are it's like a little weird creature that your body perceives yourself as. And you've got two. You've got a sensory in and a motor out, which obviously in golf you do both, and the hands are just enormous on this little creature that our brain perceives ourself. So the homunculus. Look it up, it's fun.
Speaker 3:Phenomenal. Yes, we're going to include that in our next marketing Folks be looking out for the Jumbo Max homunculus script. It's coming out soon. I love it.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I opened up a can of worms with that opening statement, my, I opened up a can of worms with that opening statement. My goodness.
Speaker 3:Well, you guys have always been forward thinkers out there in California.
Speaker 1:So we love learning.
Speaker 4:Hey, I'm in Florida too now, john, I'm over with you on the other side now.
Speaker 3:Congratulations on the migration, Billy. We're happy to have you.
Speaker 4:Well, it's pretty. It's pretty. I was going to say it's pretty cool. I was going to say it's pretty cool to be here, but it's a long way from cool here. Well, that's true, it's very warm.
Speaker 3:Hey, october's coming. My friend and I heard there's a rumor going around that you're going to be at Jumbo Max Fitting Center.
Speaker 4:Well, I should be ready any day here at Bobby Jones Golf Club in Sarasota and for people in our area. Come get fitted.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about all that, john. Yeah, it's pretty cool. People are writing in every day when can we get fit, where can we get fit? And we're in the process of launching the fitting centers and opening them up on a daily basis. So things are really happening. They're going to happen at a fast pace. You may not see it until the beginning of 2025, but you'll find a Jumbo Max fitting center near you in the near future.
Speaker 4:That's exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we definitely need it. So, johnny Maz, what in the hell inspired Jumbo Max? How did you acquire it? And let's tie that first segment up with Bryson, how Bryson found it and how he applied it, most importantly, to what he's doing now, which is one of the best in the world, as everybody knows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, unbelievable. Unbelievable Definitely. From the day we saw Bryson he was an elite ball striker. So you know, jumbo Max basically was brought about from trial and error, hours and hours of research hitting golf balls. You know, when the launch monitors came about, we had a way to track speed, distance, spin rates and you know, in to out, outside, to in, you know ball rotation, all these wonderful things, launch angles. So we were able to start applying science to golf grips and we realized that there was a more efficient way to swing a golf club, that the handle can really affect a lot of different things. Number one effect it has is on the closure rate of the face. We can slow down the closure rate. I mean how many people overdraw the ball. So we can affect that, we can affect path. You know ball spin, spin angles, launch angles through size, not only size but the weight of the grip. So you know the way Jumbo Max came about. It's just trial and error and a lot of testing to find the optimum grip.
Speaker 4:John, I want to add to something there, probably as a golf, as a you know full-time teacher and a proud Jumbo Max ambassador, one of the pushbacks I get is people think that bigger equals. They're going to slice it, you know, and you said it can lower closure rate, but what it does, on the other hand, is it relaxes their hands and their wrists so well that the hands do what they're supposed to do and it's sort of a counterbalance because you can get the heavier grips for people who do have trouble leaving it to the right or whatever. I've never had anyone have a problem slicing it because of them being bigger.
Speaker 3:No, a hundred percent, Billy. And as a matter of fact, you know people spend years, a lot of their golf career, over gripping the club, squeezing too hard. Think about in terms of trying to climb a rope, and you only had a real skinny narrow rope to go up.
Speaker 3:You'd really have to lock in on that and take your time and meticulously try to get up that rope using a lot of hand tension, whereas a bigger rope you're able to incorporate all your bigger muscles and you can shimmy up that rope. You can use your legs, you can use your hands. You're using your lats a lot more. Same thing in golf. If we can free up the tension in your hands and allow you to use your bigger muscles, you know as a teacher how critical it is to use your bigger muscles in the golf swing and let the hands swing freely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, definitely, and it's just more comfortable.
Speaker 4:And, by the way, in the old days like I've been playing golf since the 70s and they used to have big grips and they were called arthritis had grips and they were called arthritics, you know, and it was kind of like old guys would do it because, well, you get to live a certain amount of years, you get some arthritis in your hands and all that, and so they had to use them and it was a bit, like you know, for young kids we're going oh just, you know, those are for old people, arthritics.
Speaker 4:And now I tell people, look, so they were called arthritics, do you want to get arthritis? Or if you already have arthritis, do you want to? You know, alleviate that and make your hands work like they're supposed to, like on any other bat you know, a baseball bat, or any other you know club you use in other sports, a tennis racket, they're all bigger and golf was some carryover from a you know 500 years ago with a little twig or something yeah, we wrap leather around a hickory stick 500 years ago and decided that's the optimum size to go play golf with.
Speaker 3:Let's go. And then you look in your tool shed and you see all the bigger handles on your broom and your mops and your shovels. And then you go into your sports bin and you find the bat and you find the rackets and see all these things with bigger handles, even fishing poles. But then you go to play golf and you don't have any surface contact. You have to stick it in your fingers. And all the experts say, well, you've got to grip it in your fingers. Well, it's the only place to grip it because there's no surface contact for your palm. So once you allow for the fingers and the palm to activate onto the grip, it really frees up all that tension. You know finger-based is great, but you always have to be reminded grip it really easy, Only the last three fingers. There's so many rules, you have a hard time pulling it back. You're so tense.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, well, you know. I've got a couple more facts I want to throw in here as you're going on. Here are some stats you've got in each hand you got 27 bones, 29 major joints, 123 ligaments, 34 muscles, none of which is in the fingers 48 nerves and 30 arteries. That's all in each hand. So you know. Like again back to are they safer? Yeah, they're safer. I I don't have. You know, I just turned 58. I've got some stuff going on from playing 50 years of beating balls. I've been a huge range rat my whole life and I'm super thankful for your innovations, john. It's helped me a lot with all those numbers I just threw out there. Because my hands don't hurt as much anymore, I can go out and know I'm not going to get hurt. But I think that's for everybody too. Not only do they cause more accuracy, but they avoid pain and injury.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny by circumstance, Braden Shattuck, if you're not familiar. He won the PGA Pro and qualified for the PGA Championship and he's been one of the top uh PGA pro players the last couple of years. He had gotten in a car accident and uh had some damage nerve damage in his hands and so forth and he was kind of forced into our grip. And then he's forced into kind of like the jumbo max XL because that what allowed him to grip the club the best without having to squeeze as much. Well, it turned out that he's played some of the best golf of his life since he made the switch and he's realizing a lot of his dreams. He's played in several PGA Tour events and the future looks real bright for him.
Speaker 3:But it's funny because it was an injury that led him to the Jumbo Max and we get those stories all the time. Folks try it out because they might have achy hands or their wrist hurts, but they always write in and the best part of the story is always the ending that hey, I'm playing my best golf right now or I won my club championship. I thought that, you know, it was great because I could play pain free, but now I'm even playing better. So those are the kind of stories we love.
Speaker 4:I know, I remember old Lon Hinkle was a SoCal legend and a long drive tour player and he was maybe your first pro.
Speaker 3:Lon was in our original Jumbo Max commercial. I encourage any of you listeners to Google Jumbo Max the bet. It was kind of our original commercial back around 2011,. And Lon Hinkle was featured in that commercial.
Speaker 4:Well, I remember what he said. He goes. Just if I had this on the tour, my short game would have been X times better, like how much it helped his wedge play, especially to keep the hands relaxed, which around the greens. You know that's what they call it. Someone's got a great short game. They've got what they got great hands. Jesse used that expression all the time. Someone's got educated hands. And that's sort of my special area of interest, let's say, as a golf teacher is. You know how the wrists and hands and forearms and elbows especially interact. I mean, look, you got to pivot and got to have great. You know ground reaction forces and all that stuff. But honestly, at the end of the day a good player can sit on a stool and if they got great hands they could still keep it around par, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, it's so you know what do they say, billy? The grip is the only connection to the golf club. So when we overlook the grip, we go through these custom fittings and spend hundreds of dollars and thousands of dollars on equipment to get better, on a launch monitor, and we forget about the handle, we forget about the connection to the club and that's what is the most critical. There's a new clip that just came out from John Daly playing with Bryson in his Breaking 50 episode on his YouTube channel and I encourage everybody to check that out because Daly has played big grips forever. You talk about great ball strikers. He's always been one of the better ball strikers in history and he basically said forget about getting fit for clubs, go get fit for your grips. And that made my toes tingle because you know, we know the value of it, we know how important it is to get the right grip in everybody's hand and you know it's kind of our mission.
Speaker 4:Well, like what you said, and I've been part of X number of fittings and been to places, these name brand places where they do fittings and at the end of the day they go, oh, I don't know. Last thing like afterthought and what grip, you want these ones. Okay, it's no, it's nothing at all, it's just which one do you want, which one are you used to, which one do you feel comfortable with? And that's not a real fitting.
Speaker 3:I love the. What color do you like? Yeah, you just spent $2,000 on your performance and then they're asking you for color choices as you're getting fit for a grip. Yeah, it's the most underappreciated thing in golf, but that's all changing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, people really got to do the fitting and they can do what they've got. We got the preliminary one online. That gives them most of the story. Is that right, john Is? They can go right on your website.
Speaker 3:Our fitting app is phenomenal. It's very accurate. We've done a lot of testing and it correlates to oftentimes, the right grip for each individual. So it's an interactive grip measuring system where you download the app and you hold your hand over the screen and it's going to recommend, you know, help you find the right grip. It's going to ask a couple questions and within one minute you're going to find the right grip.
Speaker 4:Is that over an iPad? It won't work on an iPhone. It's on a phone.
Speaker 3:There's a phone version. Wow, if you haven't downloaded it, check it out the Jumbo Max fitting app. So we're really excited about that. That's a big deal. That number one question with JumboMax what grip should I play? There's 40 variations of sizes and weights. So that's a great question. But over the years of trial and error and the fittings that we've done, you know, we were able to develop this app and we're very proud of it. But to you know, dial down even further. We're in the process of working with folks like yourself to open up fitting centers around around the country. So, uh, and it and it's happening at a pretty rapid pace. They're, they're starting to contact us, which is really encouraging. We're getting a lot of inquiries from around the country to become jumbo max fitting centers and I encourage anybody. Uh, you know, if you've got a local shop in your area and you think it would benefit, um, please have them reach out yeah, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 4:You know you were talking, of course, you mentioned bryson. We mentioned a couple players. Are there a few more notables you might want to mention that you're allowed.
Speaker 3:Man, we're having so much fun with, uh, different players winning tournaments. It's like you're a part of it. All of a sudden, it's uh, I don't know. It's like an uh, maybe it's like a race car driver owner or something. You got all these hot cars running around winning races and hoisting trophies. So, uh, as I referred to earlier, braden shattuck, the PGA Club Pro, which is no little feat, that's a prestigious USGA right, billy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's not USGA, it's just the PGA. That's really great. Yeah, he's a stud player.
Speaker 3:Where would you rank that tournament in your world?
Speaker 4:Well, being a PGA Pro, that's the biggest thing, that gets you into the PGA championship. And then you know, obviously, major kudos. You're in the history books for PGA pros. That's awesome History books.
Speaker 3:I think that's the thing. That's the thing that I hit home with me with some of the wins we've been getting. They're not just winning and we got a million club championships and stories like that and I love that just as much. But there's some history-making stories going on. You know, braden Shattuck won, phyllis Metty just won her fifth Long Drive World Championship. Talk about the goat. She's the goat.
Speaker 4:She's the goat and Jessie. She uses the same grip that you're falling in love with, and part of the reason she loves that grip is like you, she's the goat.
Speaker 3:And, jessie, she uses the same grip that you're falling in love with, and part of the reason she loves that grip is, like you, she's a hands player and that grip only weighs 35 grams. So you talk about loading For anybody that needs extra lag, go light, yeah, the more lag you're able to create. So we have a grip. You know that's 35 grams. A sander grip weighs what?
Speaker 4:Billy 52 yeah, it's in the 50s, yeah, uh, yeah, 55. Well, you guys, john, really own the that market. Now the long drive guys I know from working with you at the at the uh demo day of the trade show that you know you're loaded with the best long drivers in the world and you guys have won a couple of those.
Speaker 3:Now We've won the men's, we've won the women's and the amateur long drive championships in the last couple years. So we kind of have really done well in that arena. We've got some outstanding junior players. We have a 14-year-old young lady. Ashley shaw is playing our extra large get this jesse extra large wrap which is 123 gram grip and it's the straight taper you referred to really liking to feel that bottom hand. That bottom hand is built up. Let me tell you and this young lady is the most gracious, I mean, she's going to be a star. So she's already played in an LPGA event at the young age of 14, and she's the number one ranked amateur in Arizona. So we're proud of her.
Speaker 3:You know, zevi Perez is a kid you might have heard of. He's a young man with a ton of potential. He's only 13 years old and he's just out there as one of our ambassadors just killing it and, uh, playing great golf. We have a lot of mini tour wins here. Locally in the jupiter area, we have some of the better mini tours. Uh, the current money leader is a jumbo max guy. We just won the western open billy. Uh, ian gilligan, all-american out of florida. He just popped up on the scene three months ago. We didn't even know he's playing jumbo max western amateur.
Speaker 4:I think right yeah the western amateur.
Speaker 3:I think that's one of the oldest amateur tournaments, uh going, one of the most one of the second best amateur tournament in America.
Speaker 4:There you go, john and Jesse. I can tell you like as a teacher again with you're talking about Seve and the kids and I remember something that Tom Watson said. He goes if I were teaching young kids, little kids, I'd give them big grips and a left handed club and a right handed club Every other club you know in which I haven't seen anyone do that yet. But I've been putting big grips in it For all of our golf teachers out there. You know how hard it is to get kids to grip a club, or a parent who said hey, kid here, take in the little kiddie grips. They're tiny and they never put their hands on their well, and you give them a big grip and you don't even have to say anything. Their hands go on there intuitively, just like Byron Nelson's did. You know, they look perfect.
Speaker 3:What I find interesting is if you go to Walmart and you grab the kid's set, it has big handles. It's the plastic set with the big handles yeah, you know the wiffle ball stuff and it gives you so much more control of the club face and if you can start when you're young and dial that in, you become that much more deadly with them oh, no doubt.
Speaker 4:Well, you know, but go ahead, jesse, you're gonna say something okay.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I was gonna. I was also gonna echo that I was thinking about what we were talking about earlier, that all of the a lot, not all, but most of the great ball strikers that we revere and still talk about to this day all had bigger grips. Mo norman had big grips, huge grips. Right, he had a purpose for his grips. Uh, I picked up a few of ben hogan's clubs. They're built up. Hogan had built up grips. I know that sneed sneeds, I know that sneeds. Grips were built up. You know, uh, faldo's grips were built up. You know Faldo's grips were built up. Nick Price was rare because he was kind of an exception to the rule.
Speaker 3:Did you mention Mo Norman?
Speaker 2:Yep Mo Norman.
Speaker 3:Bobby.
Speaker 2:Jones, by the way, had big grips. Yeah, bobby Jones had big grips, that's right.
Speaker 3:Billy, was it you and I in Augusta when we looked into the case in the clubhouse and noticed the grips?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yep, in the trophy room we looked at that and those grips were huge and they were almost about like Jumbo Max.
Speaker 3:Right, and then you look at guys like Bubba Watson in today's game, tony Finau. The other thing you've got to talk about, jesse, is the weight of the grips. I mean we're overlooking maybe the most critical thing is the weighting of a grip has a huge impact on clubhead delivery and it can fix a myriad of delivery issues. So we always work on the swing and changing positions and early extension and all these things and those are all accurate, but what's leading the whole sequence is the hands on the club. So if you can dial that in and have full confidence, that's 80% of it. It's a big big deal and the weight of the grip has a tremendous impact. I mean back weighting.
Speaker 3:I think I just saw something in Golf Digest where Justin Rose had put lead tape on the top of his shaft and it's no coincidence. He's had kind of a reemergence the last month or two. Sure has. And for you, jesse, with you you have a really beautiful short, compacted swing. So when we add a little extra lag and you can really feel that club head, the lightweight grip is perfect for you.
Speaker 2:Perfect, yes, so I was just going to add to that, especially when it comes to delivering the golf club, because John was kind enough to send me a couple of the JMX Zenlite grips and I've got them on three clubs and those who know me know that I am not going to switch anything pretty much until the end of the year. Whenever I'm playing, I'm going to be confident in it and I'm going to go with that. And I'm very anal about my grips extremely anal, go with that. And I'm very anal about my grips, extremely anal.
Speaker 2:And for whatever reason, john and Billy, I saw that JMX Zenlite and I went I'm just going to throw this thing on one of my wedges, what the hell. And I did, and what I found was my hands automatically gravitated toward it. They felt great, just comfortability out of the gate. But those of us who really like to swing heavier gear I'm a big fan of heavier gear, I'm a big fan of flatter gear um, that also helps me to transition the golf club. So, the first thing, the first thing, the first thing that I know, when I put this, so I put it on my 62 degree, my 50, my 56 degree and my five one, and I was able to slot all three clubs much easier because I had a nice firm grip, but the grip itself allowed my wrists and my forearms to relax just a little bit more.
Speaker 3:So it's not Sequencing? Yeah, your sequencing was optimum.
Speaker 2:Yes, so because I like to grip the clubs relatively firm and like to have my wrists soft, my forearms and my elbows softer. But this thing really added even more. It was almost my body, unconsciously said the security on the golf club with my hands feel so good that the rest of my body can just pretty much relax. You know, even though that's yeah, even though that's not necessarily the case, but subconsciously I knew, because when I put these clubs in play immediately every time I touched him I just just played in our club championship weekend before last and I hit the ball.
Speaker 3:He won his club championship, john, we're going to go straight on the website, jesse getting a shout out. We love, we love those club championship stories. Keep them coming that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, it was interesting congratulations dude, thank you, thank you with my wedges.
Speaker 3:That sends a chill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it, my wedges I've always been a fairly decent wedge player, but when I put these grips on but let's just say the whole entire weekend every time I touched my 62 and 56 degree wedge it was dying. I hit exactly what I wanted. I imposed my will on the golf ball.
Speaker 3:You made the perfect choice because of the weight of the grip that you chose and the feel Less taper in the right hand to your point. But I really feel like the less weight gave you that little extra feel that your hands just thrived on it. Well, just right where the club head was this is.
Speaker 2:This is for all the swing geeks out there like myself, billy, you and I talk about this all the time where we're trying to save our rotation. So we're trying to really uh in. In order for us to really pivot through the strike, we want to delay opening up the shoulders. For that to happen, you've got to learn how to transition the golf club. For that to happen, there has to be some intuitive feeling with your subconscious in the club head. Right, you got to have some awareness of the club head. So, like I said before, I like to swing heavier golf clubs and I want to feel that heaviness in the club head and that was the thing that blared out to me as soon as I wrap my heads around. The grip is my club head awareness went up a thousand percent.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love that term. That's what tripped me out the most. I love that term.
Speaker 2:And if you think about going back to your hands, occupied the most sensory space in theory well, which I believe it to be true on your brain, and if your hands intuitively know that whatever you're gripping feels good and it sets your anatomical pieces at address in a comfortable, alive fashion, you're just going to free swing it that much more. And that's what I experienced intuitively, like I couldn't believe it. I still can't believe it, john.
Speaker 3:I still can't believe it. Those are the type you know and we've seen it happen a lot, jesse, especially when you do demo days. It's so fun to do a demo day because somebody and Billy you can relate to you know how important sequencing is in a golf swing. It's everything. Sequencing is in a golf swing. It's everything, everything.
Speaker 3:If you can't sequence your movements properly and the weight transition and the weight of the grip is so critical for that, we can adapt around anything. So if you're somebody who maybe casts the club a little bit, you're going to adapt. If you're somebody who, like you, jesse, you don't have a long swing and it's super tight, so that little bit of extra delay when you get the lag out of the lightweight stuff, it just puts you in a perfect sequencing and it's slight but it assists you and you talk about intuitively. You're such a feel guy that you're right on. You are right on it in the fact that the hands and the club face interact and if they interact in harmony, you can play the game at a pretty high level.
Speaker 3:It's when there's a disconnect between the hands and the club. Face that golf becomes really hard and you lose your sequencing.
Speaker 4:Jesse, you mentioned that I have a background in the golfing machine and if anyone's ever tried to read through that, some of your listeners, I know, are golf nuts, like we are, and know about that. And Homer Kelly, one of my favorite, my very favorite quote in the book he says that in Homer Kelly, one of my favorite, my very favorite quote in the book he says faulty hands can nullify everything and never be suspected as the culprit. And I would go to say faulty grips, the wrong grips, can nullify everything. Like what you, what you're talking about. You could have two smaller grips, two lighter grips or for some people, maybe too heavy a grip. Sure, that can ruin everything. And you know, mostly I think people have too small fingers yeah, mo norman said what
Speaker 4:about it. Most said palms are, palms are stable, fingers are fast and palms are stable and I know you call it a finger palm grip, but really it gets it out of the fingers where people put it, the old grips and the crooks their fingers with very little surface touching their hands. So you're not really related to what you're talking about. The clubhead feel that lag pressure and that, as Eddie Marins called it, swing the handle. That's what his expression was. Rest in peace, mr Marins, a legendary pro. He wrote a book and was his career of teaching people how to be aware of the handle.
Speaker 3:I love that handle Absolutely. Billy, you're an anatomy guy. Do you know where the FISA form sits in your hand? Sure, okay, the snuffer there. Yeah, and what does that connect to the ulnar? Yeah, okay, yeah. So guess where our grip sits? Yeah, on the physiform. It's right on the physiform, right in that little pocket under the pad of your hand. There that's it and that's it snugs right in there, and then basically there's no loss of kinetic energy because of the connection of where the grip is sitting. If you put the the grip on your fingers.
Speaker 4:the ulna is the bottom part. There's two bones in the forearm. You've got your radius and your ulna. The radius is like when you look down at the back of your arm, the little and that's a small, little weak muscle and that's what small grips require is using radio, the radius and they call talking the wrist, radial acceleration. And, john, you're talking about the ulna, engaging that in that bone structure, which is a much sturdier structure, more stability.
Speaker 3:Right, that's what our grips are basically from a scientific standpoint. Why do they work? What are they doing? Why is it working so well? The best way to explain it is it's a direct connection to your ulcer. I mean, you cannot get more connected with something in your hand than by placing it in the FISA form and letting the rest happen. It's a relaxing position to be in. It's a powerful position to be in and it reduces club face rotation, so the club face doesn't open and close as much and it does it at a slower rate and you have more leverage when you get to the ball. So it enhances shots out of the rough. It gives you more leverage off the tee. I mean there's so many different reasons why you know we're having the success with the bigger grips.
Speaker 2:Well, I can add one thing, another thing from my experience too. Just, uh, in in three, four or five rounds of golf with these grips now, um is that we talk about less face rotation. So if, if, if, your hands know already that they're going to have to work hard throughout the strike to get to square up the ball, it's almost like the body's going to conserve energy and get lazy. So you might just, you know, slow your pivot down a little bit, chuck your hands at it and and some days you can time it, some days you can't.
Speaker 2:Um, well, in, at least in the community that I'm in with Brad Hughes and John Erickson, one of our big things is accelerating into and post impact. So we're really trying to hit through the strike with a lot of violence, and the way to do that is to have your body ripping through it. I mean the best in the world, both men and women, continue to rip through it through the strike and with these grips on. That's one thing that I noticed, and probably why, out of the gate, I had better wedge control was because my pivot was doing the work. My pivot was completely doing the work. I didn't have any pivot stall or pivot slowdown.
Speaker 3:You're not waiting on anything and flipping.
Speaker 2:No, no, absolutely not, and that so that for me has been a big, monumental light bulb. You know, because that's something that I work on anyway, and you know the drills that I do regularly. I just started doing them with the grip saw, and when I work on that post-impact acceleration, my body's telling me to work harder, work harder, work harder. And what's interesting is when you see the guys and the gals out there, usually when they hit the ball pretty well, especially with the driver, they're less, they're just not, they're not overextending, they're not. I mean, excuse me, they're not early extending. You know, no, or you know they're not doing that Some of the weeks they do.
Speaker 3:But usually they're pivoting, they're down and through, they're down and through. And it's powerful and you know the long drivers are having so much success because they're hitting the grid twice as much. That's exactly what I was going to say and when we do our fittings, we always find speed, so it's a double-edged sword. Not only are you going to get a little faster, but the control factor is under-talked about. Yeah, I mean a lot more accurate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean a lot more accurate. Well, I'll start off with I think the first time I met Bryson was with you guys. I mean Bryson had just I think he was a freshman at SMU, yeah, and we were talking about his grips and I said, dude, what's with the grips? I think it was the first time I'd seen him and he goes Jesse, I wouldn't be able to do what I do without him. That's like the hub of what I'm trying to do. Which then, when he was working with Mike, was what was the golf machine? Billy, zero plane shift, is that what it was?
Speaker 1:Zero shift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, zero shift, right, and he started explaining all of that. But he said that my hands and the grip are the hub of all of it and he said I wouldn't be able to do what I do without this grip. I couldn't do what I do with a normal grip. And we're going to talk about bryson a little bit more, but I don't know if anybody's ever picked up like any of mo's grips or any of like some of the great ball strikers like I got a chance to be around Mr Palmer a lot and his grips were big. Gary Piper's grips were a little bit bigger.
Speaker 4:Nicholas counterbalance. He made his grips 90 grams.
Speaker 3:Sergio, great ball striker, great balls Bubba great ball striker Tony.
Speaker 2:Great balls Bubba. Really really good ball striker. Yeah, Bubba.
Speaker 3:Tony Finau, great ball striker. Right All bigger, heavier grips.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's something to it. I mean, we're talking about it over and over again.
Speaker 3:Ben Hogan yeah, chi Chi told me Ben Hogan played a bigger grip. Chi Chi told me he played a heavier grip. Chi Chi told me he played a grip like we had. It was really interesting, as only Chi Chi could do it.
Speaker 4:Rest in peace, great Chi Chi. What great hands he had, huh.
Speaker 2:Beautiful man, yeah, beautiful man.
Speaker 3:And Arnold I had the pleasure of four times interacting with and three times the grip was involved and three times I left him grips, not because I think he just was a huge Jumbo Max guy. He just decided he wanted me to feel really good. He wanted to make what I was doing the most important thing. So whenever you hear anything about Mr Palmer, that's what you want to remember the most about him.
Speaker 2:I hear you. I hear you.
Speaker 3:That's how he, that's how he treated people and, speaking of Bryson, he's come a long way, Jesse, and you know we just love what he's doing out there. We couldn't ask for a better ambassador and friend and the journey with him has been really special for me in particular.
Speaker 2:And you know, just continue to have the success.
Speaker 4:I think he's, by the way, a top three player in the world right now. If I had to estimate that, yeah, don't even get me going.
Speaker 3:I mean, when we start talking about the Olympics, my blood burns Because I know how patriotic Bryson is, I know how important that is to him and I know how much that stage could have used his presence. Yeah, he's bringing entertainment to golf. He's bringing that, speaking to Mr Palmer, you know, he's bringing that flair. He's bringing a realness, a humanness to the game and you know, people haven't seen that from him. So you know, to see him involved into this. You know person that he's become. It's pretty cool, pretty cool.
Speaker 4:He's winning the Internet, that's for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, he's winning more than that that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, he's winning more than that, along with majors. Yeah, along with majors.
Speaker 3:I could see a few more of those in the near future for him, the way he's been playing and hitting the ball and you know it's been we wouldn't be here without him, let's put it that way.
Speaker 4:So who else you got it, john? Any other tour players? No, it doesn't really matter didn't you have a really good amateur mid-am or something, or someone?
Speaker 3:recently vogue's. You know mitch from california, uh, us am a former us amateur champion. I guess once you're a us amateur champion you're a us amateur champ. So he won it between tiger and phil. So mitch is always, uh, he's been with us almost as long as you have billy and uh, we have, uh, several players. I mean players are popping up right and left.
Speaker 3:We have players on every tour using our stuff retief, goose and hall of famer and, uh, another wonderful human being, retief is just salt of the earth, great player. He's played great golf. He led the tour in driving distance the first couple years now with Jumbo Max and then Stuart Appleby. Here's a cool one. Stuart Appleby switched mid-season this year and he was a cumulative 14 over. In his first five events and I think his next seven events he was 38 under. So he really turned it around when he made the switch and he's a big fan. Charles Howe he's a teammate of Bryson. He's been having a lot of recent success on the Live Tour with them. Martin Borgmeier, world Long Drive champion. Justin James, world long drive champion. Phyllis Metty. Kelly Rudney won a world championship with our grips.
Speaker 4:We got a bunch of long drive guys. How about the putter?
Speaker 3:grip. We're breathing over the putter grip. I love the putter grip. That's a labor of love right there.
Speaker 4:That's a labor of love, oh my.
Speaker 3:God. Well, we, you know we're kind of David. You know you look at David and Goliath and we're like David at the putter grips. We got a long way to go, but we've come out with some really nice stuff. That's a beauty, jesse. That's a special edition right there.
Speaker 2:So for those listening, I almost forgot that John also gave me this Jumbo Max pistol grip, pistol 1.0 JMX and I threw it on my putter one of my putters prior to the club championship Because I have been putting decent but nothing's going on and I'm'm getting frustrated. So I have like six of the same putters. They're just, you know, I if one, if one misbehaves, it's going in the penalty box. Well, the next one that was up got John's grip, the jumbo max. Yeah, this one I just repeated, I'm not gonna repeat it again. But uh, and I putted pretty well and it felt great.
Speaker 2:You know, once again, the first thing I noticed when I put my hands on this putter grip is awareness, sensitivity of the putter hat in a little bit more uh detail so I can actually feel the club head release. I've always tried to hook putts, for whatever reason. Every time I hook putts I make putts. Well, that completely put that back into my hands. That feel that sensitivity that I haven't had for about a year. So I'm all about this putter grip. This isn't going to go off this putter anytime soon. My goodness, it's really good about this putter grip. This isn't going to go off this putter anytime soon my goodness again, really good jesse, that they again.
Speaker 3:The key for you is the lightweight stuff, because you're such a hands player that feel is really, really important for you and the just not feel feels like probably the wrong word. It's what the reaction of the lightweight handle does in your sequencing. It's optimum for your sequencing and that's what we try to do when we do fittings, because the numbers don't lie. We're not trying to sell anybody a grip. I just want people to have the right grip and I want it to be the right size and I want it to be the right weight because we know that they'll play better golf and that's really all any of us want.
Speaker 3:That's all any of us want. Well, I want to add something about execution or accuracy.
Speaker 4:You know, people can think of use a car like a little race car that was super light, it might be responsive, but it's also squirrely, like if you just touch it or you could. Or you could think of a mouse on a computer if you have it where it's really could, or you could think of a mouse on a computer if you have it where it's really um light. It goes right across the screen. But let's go back to the, let's go back to the car. It's squirrely, it's harder, it'll rip around corners, but it's more out of control as opposed to say like a rolls a rolls royce or something right, it's very stable, you feel every bit of it.
Speaker 4:It's it's a it's seamless, transition transmission type of car. You know, that's that's how I try to sell people, not sell it, you know. Like I said, but that's how I describe it for people and I most everyone agrees they'd rather have something more, not just luxurious in texture and, by the way, they last a long time too. I got to tell you, john, you guys got to work in some what they call obsolescence, planned obsolescence like the car companies.
Speaker 3:They last too long.
Speaker 4:I can't get people to come back and re-grip their clubs. They last too long.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you know, it's true, billy. We're going to get one of those kind of blow-up type grips. After a certain amount of time they just disintegrate. I don't know. I think there's some other grip manufacturers that can help you with that, all of them. Yeah, we don't want to be in that business, we just want you to play good golf.
Speaker 4:No doubt. That's all it's about. You've certainly helped it. You've made your spot in the world. I know you're in good golf, no doubt. Well, you've certainly helped it. You've made your spot in the world. I know you're in the NFL Hall of Fame. You want to share that with our listeners while you're in there.
Speaker 3:This is year 33 of putting a costume on that has something to do with a fin coming off my head and blowing a conch shell, and I said conch.
Speaker 4:C-O-N-C-H. Isn't that a conch shell?
Speaker 3:Just to clarify, that is a conch shell. Billy, you've always got the proper nomenclature. I was pretty proud of you.
Speaker 4:Yes, I was trying to bail you out of trouble there.
Speaker 3:Uh well, it didn't happen, buddy.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately it's getting late in the day here yeah, well, I, I told, I told jesse that he should integrate. Everyone's got to come up with a golf joke to be on the show, all the guests and I. I thought the appropriate one was uh, I heard this from one of my members. He said I said how are you hitting it, mr X? And he goes, he goes, oh, I'm hitting it so bad I had to get my ball retriever re-gripped.
Speaker 3:We'll go along with that. That's my bailout on the golf joke.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, you know we should be having fun, right?
Speaker 3:I could always tell the Jesse at the water fountain, at the Masters story. That's a fun one, let's hear it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't know, jesse, not a program for the thousands of listeners.
Speaker 3:You know I heard he's got like almost 1.8 million following now.
Speaker 4:After this episode maybe.
Speaker 3:I can see it skyrocketing. I can see things taking off.
Speaker 2:We'll definitely revisit that, but hey, John, in closing, I wanted our listeners to be aware of when they use the app and they get fitted. It's a pretty simple process. I just did it. It was super easy. Ironically, the fitting fit me for the grip that I absolutely love Wow.
Speaker 3:How about?
Speaker 2:that? How about that?
Speaker 3:Well, that's what we're hoping for, jesse. It seems like we've really made a great app that gets you in, generally the right grip for you. When the fitting centers around the country go live, there'll be a facility, whether it's an indoor. We're going to see Mike Shy next week and getting his indoor new facility. You know, mike's a dragonfly and he's opening up a new facility in Fresno and we're excited to be there for the grand opening and launch the grips.
Speaker 3:And you know, just to talk about Mike briefly, mike's another person that's near and dear to my heart, another person we wouldn't be here without Mike. Mike was the one that introduced us to Bryson way back in the day and he's the one that believed in what we were doing when most people kind of laughed at it. So Mike's, you know, not only a good person, he's a heck of a teacher. I don't know if you noticed Asterix, another one of his students. Yeah, you could talk to Asterix Talley, but she does play oversized grips. She's played jumbo max off and on, I think she's currently in is still a jumbo, but it's not a jumbo max, but she does play larger grips. Lynn is still a jumbo, but it's not a jumbo max, but she does play larger grips and you know another phenomenal talent that came out of Mike's tent. So something's going on in that tent that's producing some world-class players.
Speaker 3:And you know, I know Mike doesn't get a lot of credit sometimes and you know people don't really relate to him as one of the top teachers in golf. But let me tell you Mike Shy's put a lot of kids to college and he's won a lot of championships and built a lot of kids, you know, into good human beings. So go see Mike and you know, like I said, we got Billy McKinney is going to be opening up his fitting center soon in Sarasota, florida, and they're going to be popping up all over. And you know we got a good group of people and we're excited about the future of golf.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 4:And then Billy in closing, you're starting an online program for teaching. Yeah, people can reach me at BillMcKinneyCare at Gmail. Reach me at BillMcKinneyCare at Gmail and email me if you are interested in learning some. You know non-traditional methods that have to do with wrists and hands and educated hands that you probably have never heard of or thought of. But everyone that takes you know part of these let's call them drills or exercises tends to get a lot better. They're like you guys. Well, I don't want to brag or something, but would you say I can press the ball pretty well and pretty consistently, make a sound at the sweet spot Yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That's the main thing I teach is good compression through educated hands. You know, yeah, you got to be in the right place with your body or whatever, but if you've got educated hands you can get away with little differences. And that's what I teach people how to, how to really upgrade what they do with their hands. And we could do that all online, all quick video stuff.
Speaker 3:Wonderful. Well, I think I'm going to be reaching out here via the mouse here, real soon, billy.
Speaker 4:Excelente. I'm looking forward to it. John and Jesse, thanks for including me in part of this conversation. I've had a great time with you guys. Mike, I'm at a jump park in here in Florida a jumping place. Our kids are flying around in the you know the hanging roller coaster thing, so it's been fun to look out and see the kids flying around in the sky. While I talk to you guys, I wonder why you're bouncing up and down so much, billy.
Speaker 2:I'm watching them under the window. Thanks to both of you. This has been a long time coming. This isn't going to be the first and only time that we're going to have John on and Billy at the same time. We're going to talk to Mike Shia in the future, when Mike gets a free hour from teaching all these future potential superstars and being the awesome gentleman that he is. And then John and I we're going to do something. The Flag Hunters podcast is going to do something with Jumbo Max and we're going to figure that out. But download the app, hit Billy up 100%, recommend the Jum max scripts and Billy's combined with Billy's instruction, and you're going to find yourself playing some damn good golf, that's for sure.
Speaker 3:Great place to get dialed in Absolutely Keep listening to flag hunters. Thanks Jesse, thanks John, ciao guys, thank you.