Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Hello and welcome to Flaghunters ! It is a privilege to bring to you this powerful insight into playing better Golf. In all my years of being in the game of Golf from competing at a high amateur level, to caddying, teaching, and being a overall Golf geek, I have an insatiable, curiosity driven desire to get down to the bottom of what it takes to truly get better playing the game of Golf that we all unconditionally love. This has been one of the greatest journeys of my life and I am deeply grateful for all that Golf has given me. Thank you for joining me in this incredible journey. This is my ever evolving love letter to Golf. Jesse Perryman P.S. Please Rate, Review and Subscribe !
Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Enhancing Golf Performance with Emotional Intelligence with Laura Scott
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Unlock the secrets to mastering the mental game of golf with Laura Scott, a remarkable UK-based golf mental coach, as she shares her transformative journey from competitive sports to becoming an expert in the mental strategies that enhance performance and joy on the course. Discover how Laura's holistic approach, which combines goal-setting, belief examination, and self-awareness, can lead to significant improvements in your golf experience. Her collaboration with teaching and fitness professionals provides a comprehensive pathway to success, and her insights into understanding the 'why' behind your desire to play are particularly illuminating.
Imagine the power of transforming your mindset by simply changing "should" to "could." Laura and I delve into how these minor language tweaks can empower you both on and off the course, drawing inspiration from legends like Tom Watson and Greg Norman. Through engaging stories, we explore the art of reframing negative situations into opportunities for growth, encouraging you to embrace mistakes and simplify the mental game. By focusing on emotional intelligence and being present, we reveal strategies to boost confidence and self-worth, fostering a mindset that supports you through life's challenges.
Finally, gain valuable insights into the world of emotional IQ in golf, with examples from iconic players like Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods. Uncover techniques such as visualization and post-shot routines that can transform your emotional responses, both on the course and in everyday situations. Laura shares actionable strategies for maintaining a neutral emotional baseline, emphasizing the individuality of the mental game and encouraging you to define your own success. Whether you're a high-level competitor or simply enjoying a round with friends, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge to enhance your mental performance and overall enjoyment of golf.
To find Laura best, go to Instagram @coachingforsuccess
To find Justin Tang, email him at justin@elitegolfswing.com
To Find Jesse, text him at (831)275-8804
A big thank you to TaylorMade AND JUMBOMAX grips for their support 🙏
Hello and welcome to another edition of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast this early morning for us here in California, and my guest this week is in the UK, in England to be exact. Her name is Laura Scott. She's got a great thing going. I found her on Instagram and I reached out to her, and what she's teaching and helping folks do and overcome is very much in alignment with with what I think, with what Justin thinks and and how we can better ourselves, not only on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:No, thank you very much, jesse, for having me. It's definitely not early morning where I am, but it's not too late. So, yeah, I'm really really thrilled to be here and, yeah, I can't wait to get into this conversation.
Speaker 1:Let's dive in. How'd you get started? What brought you here, first and foremost, what brought you to where you are right now?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I mean, how far do you go back? How far do you go back?
Speaker 1:Give us the cliff notes, the cliff notes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the cliff notes, okay. So I picked up golf latterly. So I was in my 30s when I picked up golf Always did competitive sport prior to that, javelin football or soccer, for you guys and when I picked up golf, it was probably like most golfers you know how good can I get at this and how quickly can I do it. You know this addictiveness that is this, this sport, and that worked for a while and then it absolutely didn't and my golf game became, yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty awkward, shall we say, and the frustration hit and I started studying the mental game um background in sort of executive coaching degree in psychology and an accredited life coach. And so, having had anxiety overcoming my own sort of personal challenges prior to all of this, and then channeling that through golf and learning the golf mental game, I just found that things that are quite, almost intangible in life can be made quite tangible through golf as a metaphor for life, and I just felt like I had to share that with others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, to share that with others. Yeah, absolutely. That's a pretty big thing to contemplate and think about. And let's just say, somebody hits you up, somebody finds you, they hear this podcast. Where does somebody begin with you, Laura? I mean, first and foremost, what are some of the frustrations, concerns problems that people come to you with? You know out of the gate, Sure.
Speaker 2:So most of my clients come to me that they want to play better golf OK, and potentially they want to enjoy the game more. So whether they've got utterly frustrated, they're about to give up. You know I do a lot of work with with PGA pros, teaching professionals that have. You know there's an ongoing joke that you know teaching professionals are failed, failed golfers. You know, because if you can't do, then teach. But you know these expectations that people have that they should be doing something, they should be scoring a certain score and, generally speaking, if people want to get better at golf, then they should be looking at their should.
Speaker 1:They could be looking at their mental game as a really easy sort of way to do that so if somebody comes to you and they say laura, I'm struggling with you, know, whatever my thinking, my thought, processing my game, it's translating or it's hurting my golf swing, where does where does somebody begin? Where does somebody begin with you with this process?
Speaker 2:okay, cool. So generally I'll have a chat with them and I'll always start with what they want, because not everybody wants to be a better golfer. Some people want to find the enjoyment again. And then I ask them why? Why do they want that? Why is that important? What do they believe about that and why? Now? What's happened? What's changed?
Speaker 2:So it always starts with the goals and I come at this from almost a bit of a, I guess, like a three-pronged attack. So I like to complement teaching professionals and what they're doing with the technical element, equally fitness professionals, and make it quite a holistic journey for a golfer. But typically speaking, I will. I will tackle goals, as I've just sort of talked through beliefs. So what do they believe about themselves? What do they believe about others? What do they believe about the world? What do they believe about golf? Okay, and human skills, so self-narrative, uh, their awareness of themselves. You know that's a huge thing generally where it all starts, as you'll know, jesse concepts, perspectives, you know, and taking those three sort of key areas and then just really simplifying them into processes both for golf and for life, practical processes that they can then embed into their games.
Speaker 1:What a great answer. What a great way to start, what a great way to start a working relationship, what a great way to get the practitioner to. As we said before, when a student starts to think about the why, that's, in my opinion, that's when the magic starts to happen. The why will open up the floodgates to a lot of knowledge. When you start getting honest with yourself and a lot of us have a really difficult time doing that and we need help. We really do. We need a guide, we need a teacher, a coach such as yourself, to help us and give us the encouragement to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves why in the hell do we subjugate ourselves on the weekends or whenever, to a lot of frustration, a lot of disappointment, a lot of missed putts, a lot of missed hits, golf shots and things like that, and I think that's important.
Speaker 1:I've asked that same thing of a few of my friends why do you play? I know exactly why I play. I know exactly to a T and you know, for me, golf is. It's the ultimate holistic challenge and it's the ultimate holistic expression and form of acceptance, because there's a lot of things that you cannot control and how you respond to those things is going to determine, in my opinion, whether you win or lose. Whether you win or lose externally. If you win internally, you're going to set yourself up, you're going to stack the deck in your favor for a lot of good years of playing golf. So sorry for the quick rant, but I just think that's so important to really take ownership of the why and that really sets the precedent for how you can work with somebody moving forward 100%.
Speaker 2:I'm sat here smiling and nodding. You know it's, it's, it's. It's far from a rant, it's just brilliantly put. I don't think I could have put it to myself, to be honest thanks um, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so take us through the process. Laura, just say, for example, I'm hitting you up. I say, laura, I'm struggling with my game, and we start this process. What does that look like? Do you work with somebody via Zoom? Do you have them write to you? What is that? How does?
Speaker 2:somebody begin this process, yeah, sure. So I think, like, first off, we I'd always jump on a call, ideally a video call, you know, because I think you can really gauge a lot from from, you know, interacting with someone in that way. And I think one of the misconceptions is a misconception there's a lot of people out there in golf and in life they're after a quick fix. Okay, like the plaster effect. You guys use plaster is that we do?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay, that's it yeah so the plaster effect and, and ultimately, you, I've got a tournament tomorrow, you know, and I'm nervous, fix me. And it's like, okay, yeah, there's a few things that we can talk about there in terms of you know the concepts that you'll have heard with mental performance, you know your visualization, your breathing, your mindfulness, you know. But in terms of the root cause, you know the mindset, the perspective shift that's always going to come to the surface and there's only so many plasters you can put on the surface. So I think, in essence, it's understanding. How committed is this person? You know, what does this person actually want to change? Do they want this quick fix or are they prepared to work from it? And I guess it's the same when you go to, you know, a teaching professional and you know, fix my swing in one lesson. And then I want to be a single finger handicap. That's what you do, right, jesse?
Speaker 2:no, I wish I wish, wish, I wish. So it's like just gauging how committed is someone to this journey, you know. And then the beautiful thing with, with, I guess, how I try and approach this, you know, and I I genuinely don't want to generalize as such, but and I can only really speak for england, more so here, but there is a generation of um, of males that play golf that, if were, would even mention you know, how's your mental performance, how's your mental game? There's this stigma behind yeah, I don't need any of that, you know that's. I don't need that wishy fluffy stuff. You know I'm gonna. Yeah, I just need to practice more. You know, I just need to feel a bit more confident, hit more balls, and there's this misconception that the mental game is is, you know when you're absolutely at breaking point.
Speaker 2:So a really nice thing going through this process with people is just actually helping them to expand their understanding that, for example, if they get really frustrated with themselves because they're playing with a friend who hits the ball out of bounds and then loses his head, all right, and this player then finds themselves doing everything they can to make this other player who's frustrated enjoy their time on the golf course more, to the absolute detriment of their own round. You know, that's kind of a people pleasing tendency, and if that's showing up in your golf, there's a real high possibility that that's showing up in your golf. There's a real high possibility that that's showing up outside of golf. Okay, so so it's this kind of almost this metaphor as, as golf, you know, golf and life and I guess throughout everything I do and the process I take people through, you know my passion is rooted in helping individuals become the best version of themselves, full stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. And what better place, in my opinion, to start with than golf? Because golf has a tendency, you know, you tell me how you feel about this, jessie but golf has a tendency to bring forward sometimes our most suppressed qualities. You know, whether we like it or not, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean, when you step on the first tee, just rip the Band-Aid off, especially under the gun, especially in tournament play and competitive play, the gremlins are going to come out. Yeah, you know, for whatever, whatever reason, the very nature of golf I mean, I've been really deeply contemplating this lately, laura but you're, you're tested in every way. You're tested physically, mentally, emotionally, and you can. It's really one of the few games where you can do something perfectly and not get rewarded for it. And you know, I'll give you the example of if you, if you just crash or smash a drive right down the middle and you're right in the middle of a nasty divot, you know there's nothing you could do about that. And that, at least, tests me to no end.
Speaker 1:Because the self talk is how in the F did that happen? I just hit a perfect drive, I hit exactly where I wanted to him, in the middle of an F and divot. And then the negative talk comes why isn't the USGA or the RNA? Why didn't they fix this rule? You start to blame things that are outside of your control, and I think that provides a great opportunity. You know this is talking about now actually getting into the work of accepting what it is, being great, satisfied that you hit a drive the way that you hit it where you wanted to do, where you wanted to hit it where you wanted to do it, where you wanted to hit it, exactly where you wanted to hit it. And you get a break like that. I think that it really tests our acceptance levels, because the best players in the world are the best acceptors in the world. They may not like it, they may have a fit about it, but it's over. It doesn't impale their ability to be aware in the moment and proceed. I mean, there's a great spiritual verse that be in the case how shall I proceed? It's hard to do in real time. It's hard to do when you're playing with your buddies or you're playing in a competitive round, and then you start to think about can you believe this, can you believe this effing shit? You know that, can you. And then you start complaining to your friends and and then it just further exacerbates the problem. So how can you, how can, how can we, as golfers, through what you teach Laura say that example? I mean, that's a tough one, but it's important because it happens.
Speaker 1:It happens a lot when you play. There are things that are outside of your control that will trigger what you just said, our deepest, most innermost, whatever it is anger, anxiety, embarrassment, fear or, even worse, you start to have tapes that are pulling your head. Why does this always happen to me? So, as soon as you say that your power's gone, it's, you've just given it away, but people are not aware of that. They're absolutely not aware of that. It's okay to be frustrated with a bad break, but it's not okay to let it permeate your consciousness. Where you start losing, where you're at, you're no longer inside of your body, you are pissed off and you're. You know, can you believe this? You just, and it's. It's a never-ending cycle, and then, all of a sudden, the energy perpetuates to the next shot, yeah, and then the next shot. And then you look back and you're on the next tee and you're still back there going. How the hell did that happen?
Speaker 2:I want to play around with Red Jesse Like this guy sounds like fun.
Speaker 1:Oh God, oh, I can make people crack up out there. I promise you that, because that very scenario of what I just said happened and I caught, you know, the other day. I'm playing a game and I'm playing great, and I hit my drive right down the middle of the fairway and I'm in a nasty debit. My first thing was F, the RNA, f the USGA. They should have changed this F and rule F this. Why should I get punished for executing a perfect shot? Why should I? I shouldn't, but you know what.
Speaker 1:You can do a lot of great things in life and still get a bad break. How? But you know what? You can do a lot of great things in life and still get a bad break. How do you handle that? How do you move forward from that? And then you start to think next level. How can I use this to my advantage? How can I turn lemons into lemonade here? How can I hit this great shot? What can I do with this? Yes, it's in a divot, but what can I do with this? Yes, it's in a divot, but what can I do with this?
Speaker 1:I remember hearing Pete Bender, one of the old-time caddies out there. I think he caddies for Rocco Mediate now, but he used to caddy for Tom Watson and he caddied for Greg Norman or I think this was Bruce Edwards, tom Watson's original caddy, who unfortunately passed from ALS and he said the difference between Greg Norman and Tom Watson was if Tom hit it in a divot in the fairway, he would say Bruce, watch this, watch what I do with this, whereas Greg Norman would do the latter. F this, f that. That's something that I would have done. Truth be told, I would have done the same thing as greg norman did f this.
Speaker 1:Why should I get punished for hitting a bad shot? Both are valid. However, one is infinitely more powerful than the other one. As far as self-empowerment, and you know, I think that part of the mental game really is learning how to recontextualize things that happen out there and use it as a self empowerment, and that is a lot of work, that takes a real committed mind and that obviously, is someone who wants to take their game to a very high level, because that's what the high level players do. That's what they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I noticed something as you were describing that, and it's something that is extremely common. In fact I've corrected myself on it earlier in this conversation and in fact I've corrected myself on it on it earlier in this conversation the moment that we can start taking should out of our vocabulary, the word should and all that is associated with that word, you know shame, you know I mean. Listen to these two sentences. You know that should have had a good lie, that could have had a good lie. The thing is, if we can take the expectations that something should be something to us, okay, so someone should have fixed that divot. I shouldn't have landed in that divot because of that shot. It was so great, I should get a good break here. I should get a good lie. It was so, it was so great. You know, I should get a good break here. I should get a good lie.
Speaker 2:If we can take that entitlement or that, that almost shaming of a situation and just replace it with the word could, immediately in terms of sort of NLP, how, how we then process that information is very, very different in terms of how our thoughts lead to our emotions and actions and results. So I talked a little bit about the plaster effect. One of the the almost it's not quick fix, but it's a, it's a simple change is to just take the word should and notice when you're saying the word should in your game. You, you know, you will hear it all the time. I should have hit the green from there, I should have made that put, you know, and all of these feelings of shame will absolutely, as you say, counteract the next shot, the next hole, the next tournament. You know I should have broken an 80 there.
Speaker 2:Replacing it with could will just bring that perspective level, bring that motivation, bring that feeling of, of self-worth, you know, and I talk a lot about confidence, a lot about self-worth, self-worth, self-belief in what I do, because if those two things are high, the likelihood of producing a good performance is is much more prominent, you know. So. If there is some I mean know so. If there is some, I mean there are, there are plaster, there are quick you know quick fixes. What would you call their plaster effects? And if there is one plaster effect that I would advise to anybody, take the word should out of your game and become more aware of when you're saying it and change that word to could, and just see how that affects the way that you see things, your perspective yeah, I mean you can.
Speaker 1:You can analyze both words should and could, and realize and just feel what the effect is on possibilities. And the other one is, uh, is, is defeatism, could or should? Should have done this? I should have done that. You're. You know you're.
Speaker 1:You're taking yourself away, first and foremost for the present moment, and when you're continuing to linger on things that are outside of your control, not only you're giving your own power, but you're disempowering yourself from the inside out. You know, if somebody were to close their eyes and really think about the difference, vibrationally, between the two words, one would be very empowered and one would be. You may feel drained, it may drain you physically, and you know we want to. We want to really be our own best friend out there and encourage ourselves. Which leads me to my next question. I think that's. I want to comment, I want to just celebrate what you just said taking should out of your vocabulary. Boy, I'll tell you what that's big. In my opinion, that's big, it's really big. Thank you for sharing that, laura. That's a big one. Everyone who's listening to this right now. I want you to just take a pause and really think about that. How many times you've said should, and how many times it just hasn't helped and it's made it worse. Whatever that is doesn't help. I don.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's definitely not helped me. Has it helped you?
Speaker 1:I mean it just, it just invokes some sort of a magical spell where I can go and re reverse the hands of time and erase the number on the scorecard that I just posted. Then yeah, if you're into magical thinking, sure it can help you. But you know we're dealing square with reality and and I kind of lost my train of thought, but I think you know. My next question is laura how do you, how do you, get the student to realize the power, the real power, of the self-talk, and how encouraging it could be and or how destructive it could be?
Speaker 2:I see it's quite funny really. So I mean most of the stuff I do online, most of my coaching, but on the occasion I do get out on the course with people, obviously predominantly in England, and I was literally speaking to one of my clients, who's a competing professional, the other day and she was laughing saying that she was telling her students about our first session and I forgot about this. But we walked down the second hole and I just said to her right, I'm, I had observed her for a little while. I said I'm going to speak to you exactly how you've spoken to yourself for the last two holes, and I went into.
Speaker 1:You know she hit her give me an example, give us an example okay, so driver off the t?
Speaker 2:um just goes into the the sort of the rough, short, rough. And she said what are you doing? You, absolute idiot. Why would you even try that? You know you should have hit a different club off the tee there. And you just went and did that and she looked at me as if well as you would like shocked. And then we walked to the ball. And while we're walking to the ball, you know it was a I can't believe. You just did that and now you're not gonna be able to get a decent shot in. Okay, and you know how many times are you going to do that today? Because you did something like that back there and then we got to the next ball. It's not even a good lie. What are you going to do with that? You're not going to be able to get that out, are you? I'd be quite nervous about that, that. I mean, what am I going to think when you don't get that out? You know? And then she, she, so I, but and yeah, it's quite harsh, isn't it?
Speaker 1:and I, you know, I yeah, but that's how we talk to ourselves the realization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, obviously that's quite an extreme example, but I always say to people, let's just say and this resonates with with a lot of people um, let's say you were, you were caddying for a friend or maybe your child. You know, if you've got a child that plays golf and they hit a duff shot and it's 10 yards further advanced, what would you say to them? What would you say?
Speaker 1:I just keep encouraging them. It's all right, everybody makes mistakes, you know. If they're beginners or they're just kind of getting started with the game, hey, it's okay to make mistakes, that's how we learn. Go ahead and duff away, shank away, top away, snap, hook it to hell and gone, just go ahead. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:You can't say that word.
Speaker 1:Oh, shank, horizontal fade, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:The Tom Hanks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. But what you know, know, I think that a lot of and sort of the origin of some of the angst is especially here in the United States, where mistakes have been demonized, and you know, thankfully, the circle that I have and the people that I converse with regularly mistakes are not only an important part of evolution, it's a necessity.
Speaker 2:You have to make mistakes.
Speaker 1:You have to. It's a part of the process. How you manage those mistakes I ie how you contemplate them and then, more importantly, how you apply them is going to be some of the greatest gifts that we'll ever have, particularly on the golf course. Mistakes are gifts and you know I'm going to go back to the scenario of mirroring somebody's self-talk. I would reverse it and say when you're going to get up over a shot, and if somebody, the aware person, say, for example, the lady, the professional that wanted to hit driver or shouldn't hit driver, let's recontextualize it. If she wants to hit driver, I would tell her to accept the outcome.
Speaker 1:If you're going to hit that club, knowing that, potentially, if you do not execute it, this is going to be the situation. You accept that in advance, why not? Hey, you know what. I'm going to go ahead and hit this thing. If it, if, if I, if I don't turn it over and I blow it through the dog leg and it's behind a tree, I'm going to accept that because I'm the one who made that decision. It's, it's such a, it's such a different energetic value when you think about that. But you know what, laura, I mean. That's why we're having this conversation. It takes a lot of work to get there, that. But you know what, laura, I mean. That's why we're having this conversation. It takes a lot of work to get there, yeah it takes work to get there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, it does. And you know, yeah, there's so many different elements. What what I found with with mental performance, the mental game. You can make it as complicated or as simple as you want, depending on the level of play. And you know you've had some absolutely fantastic guests on this podcast and I love listening to it regularly and some of the concepts of some of your guests is just mind-blowing. And then some of the topics that you talk about it's you know, it's really enjoyable.
Speaker 2:As an amateur golfer myself, I think when I kind of started this journey and this is not just golf, this is anything the amount of information you can get from YouTube, from all different sources now can be quite overwhelming, and I think sometimes it's about finding what fits for you. So, depending on the person in front of me, I may. If they've got low self-esteem, for example, if they're not particularly confident, it's unlikely that I would tear into them to give them that sort of perspective. I'm like, how did you feel after that hole? And generally speaking, they're not going to feel great. So that gives them that perspective. But the voice that we hear the most is our own through life. So I think when people understand that and then understand the impact that that can have have, it does tend to bring about these sort of light bulb moments, these, these sort of breakthroughs, these shifts in perspective that you know, it's okay to be kind to myself, you know and this whole sort of thought process that and you know I found this with a lot of high achievers and I hold my own hand up to this growing up we think that if we're hard on ourselves it will push us to do better, it will push us to do more. All right.
Speaker 2:But then if you put yourself in the context, if you think about a job that you've ever had or or any sort of sporting coach, and you think about a coach that, literally, or a teacher that beat you with a stick not literally perhaps, but beat you with a stick, never really gave you any praise but really was really quick to come down on you if you did anything wrong and you think about how confident you you were in that lesson or job or whatever else, and and how much you were motivated to do better, and then you put yourself in a context of thinking about a coach or a boss that was really motivating. You know, bags of praise. Picture it when you were down, just had your back, you felt like they were in it with you. How motivated were you to do better, to get in every day, to do more, to go beyond. How confident did you feel in your own skin, in your own skin? And you know, if you think about that context and then think about how you speak to yourself, how you drive yourself, you know it starts to build a bit of a picture that people suddenly think all right, okay, yeah, I get it now, you know, and that's quite huge.
Speaker 2:But going back to where I came from, what I try and do with clients is I try to really simplify things. All right, I haven't got the natural background growing up in golf, competing on the tour or anything like that, and I don't protest to have. You know, I have a lot of life experience. I have a lot of experience with life coaching and I genuinely believe that we have one mind and whether that's off the golf course or whether it's on the golf course, that mind is still going to be the same mind. So, you know, for me, simplifying it made it work, okay, understanding what that person resonates with. So stats, you know stats is an opportunity for me.
Speaker 2:The analytical side. I'm quite feel-based, you know gut, sort of initiative, sorry, intuition, and so statistics for me are a challenge and for some golfers that's the case. For some golfers it's more that their emotional intelligence is the the opportunity and you give them a bunch of stats and that's great. But their awareness, you know. If you ask them, you know what's your recipe for your best round of golf. You know what are you thinking, what are you doing, who are you talking with? You know what do you do in between holes and they they look at you blank, it's like what. And so I think knowing your audience, knowing where you need to simplify things, where you can ramp up things, make them slightly more deeper in sort of meaning, is yeah, with this kind of thing, it's really it goes a long way. What would you say? What would you say? You're more statistically based or feel based, higher EQ, what would you? How would you summarize yourself with regards to golf?
Speaker 1:All the above. All the above, laura, but it's taken me a long time to get there because I tried to do the analytical, statistical route and I do have a little bit of that in me out and I do have a little bit of that in me, um, but what really has tipped the scale for me, where I'm at right now with my golf game and and my perception of it, is my emotional iq. My emotional iq really is the glue that binds them all. Um, because if, if an individual is able to I'm going to speak for myself if I'm able to look at things as they are, as they are, without any clouded perception of anything from my past in my nervous system, I can look at my game as it is, without judgment, and I can decide where I'm on the the pie chart we like to call the pie chart where I need the most work. But I do know that individuals that have a high emotional iq have the ability to see where they need to work. And then I also think that people that have a high emotional iq they simplify it so much. It's like a zen riddle and when you, when you hear something that somebody might say like, say, for example, jack nicholas, potentially maybe the highest emotional I IQ ever on the golf course, potentially maybe you know he he's on Mount Rushmore, you know he's up there and there was things that he did. That seems so simple, you know.
Speaker 1:I use the example of Jack in the. I think I want to say it's the 80 U open. It was the 80 or I don't know something like that was that baltimore second round. In warming up he snap hooked a couple of drivers down the range warming up and I think it was on the second hole. He hit driver and he snap hooked it and he handed his driver back to his caddy and said angelo. He said, uh, we're this, the driver's on the bench today. So he benched his driver. He sacked his driver, as you all like to say in england for the day because he didn't have the bandwidth to deal with dealing with the driver in the middle, literally, of the United States open. He recognized his limitations in the moment under the arguably probably the toughest golf tournament in the world every year and that takes a high level of emotional, and that takes a high level of emotional intelligence.
Speaker 1:Hey, I may not have my best game today, but that's okay, because I'm not going to shoot myself out of it by wrestling with my driver all day trying to figure it out as soon as the mind knows that something is amiss. It's going to be hard to let the shots go out there. It's going to be really, really difficult, I mean. And another thing too, laura I think that you know for me, me accepting the fact that I'm not going to have the speed as Rory McIlroy ever. That's just not the way I'm built, so why try to do that? But I can continue to crime the emotional iq ladder. How can I use that to my advantage? How can I use that to stack the deck in my favor? And that's the beautiful thing about golf is there's not one way to play. And there's a beautiful thing about life there's not one way to play yeah how can we identify that best pathway for ourselves?
Speaker 1:In my opinion, I think that striving for a higher emotional IQ on the golf course I'm not going to say it's the lowest hanging fruit, but it's the sweetest Go ahead. No, I was going to say real quick. There's many examples of men and women out there who have had less than technically proficient golf swings that are in the hall of fame yeah you know, let that, let that wash over you y'all, because I knowthink people yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:And and you know for most, again, generalizing, for most golfers, building a better mental game, mental performance, is the low-hanging fruit yeah you know, because once you've invested money in new equipment, once you've invested money in in technical lessons, you know, and I don't think I don't think enough golfers amateur, you know level I don't think enough golfers appreciate where does the mental game start, like, where does the the technical fitness, physical game stop and the mental game start? And there's obviously crossover with all of it. But I was having a conversation last week with someone about you know, oh, I don't need that, that kind mental game. I've got a strong mental game and there's certain things, there's certain phrases that come out. You know that I'm quite attuned into when people are talking about their game and it'd be interesting for some of the listeners to you know, I guess, to hear these phrases, see if they resonate with themselves. You know if they've not potentially looked into their mental game particularly much.
Speaker 2:But you know I'm frustrated because I should be scoring better. All right, so immediately, we've got this should coming through, we've got this kind of score focus coming through rather than the process focus that ultimately will help us shoot our best scores. You know, I hit it great on the range but I can't take it onto the course. You know, if, fundamentally, you can't get out of bunkers in practice and on the course, then yeah, technically there's something going on there. But if if you're like you know, laura davies or somebody phenomenal out the bunkers in practice and you're stuck in the bunkers in play, then there's a mental game opportunity right there. Okay, you know I'll never be amazing at putting driving. You know limiting beliefs, challenge them. Um, it depends on playing with to how well I play. You know this whole and I've been there. Have you been there before?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, absolutely and this sort of surrounding that we almost going back to that control of the divot and and actually ask yourself, what can I control in this situation? Okay, similar to outcome, outcome and processes, right, what can I control? And it is difficult because some people will push your buttons right and probably the same buttons that will be pushed off the golf course. You know, for me, rudeness, unfairness is, is a is a bit of a trigger off the course if I'm in a four ball with somebody that is displaying those qualities. There's a lot of of digging into my mental game toolkit that has to be done, but the fundamental is you cannot control who you're playing with, especially if you're going to enter competitions etc. So how do you make that situation like neutral to you? How do you put in processes to anticipate? You know this mental game toolbox of and the mental performance or mental game. It is an infinite game. There is no finish line, okay, and and it's not that quick fix, it's not do three sessions and then you sorted every single situation or otherwise you put yourself in, you have the ability to learn from it, and so you know, I had one of these not long ago at all.
Speaker 2:Um, I encountered a situation that was just incredible, in that I was playing with somebody and I'll tell you this story very quickly but I was playing with somebody that I didn't know. Now, obviously, me being super aware of how I'm talking to myself on the golf course, I would not tend to tell myself all the bad things I did for a shot. And this, this other player, proceeded to tell me all the bad things I'd done with my own shot. I never encountered it, never encountered this before, and I had to laugh. But at the same time, you know, I'm sort of stood there thinking that's, that's pushing a button. So how, how do I neutralize this situation in my mind? Now?
Speaker 2:Um and I think it was for me I didn't deal with it as well as I will do next time, but it was a great learn, and I chose in that situation to, um, quite loudly, uh, declare that it was a good enough shot and I can still do something good with the next one. Um, but yeah, we're gonna have these niggles, aren't we? And we're gonna learn, and it's all about adding to the toolbox so that when something comes around next time, you've got that to hand. I mean, is there anything for you that you've overcome. Specifically, you know you said I wish you'd been working on on your emotional intelligence and it's made you the better player than even you were before. But is there anything now that you approach where you used to go? Absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh yeah. I'll give you an example. One of the things that I have come to term with, especially playing in a tournament, is slow play. Oh my God, slow play used to just absolutely drive me just batshit crazy. And uh, you know, I go and play at my club laura, and whoever I bring out, I mean we'll play five swims in three hours. We're done, boom gone, done. Just get up and hit it go. You know, and in my opinion, in, I'm going to say in my opinion, that's the way golf is, I'm going to say I'm going to break a cardinal sin here.
Speaker 2:It should be played I could see it coming. And then there's your, there's another should, exactly it's a should. Then any change to that expectation that you have is causing frustration. Sorry, go on.
Speaker 1:No, exactly. So you know how that used to impact me was I would. If I hit a bad shot, I would blame that shot on. I've been waiting all day, you know, and you know I'm just I'm trying not to swear, but anyway. So what's really turned that around for me is the acceptance of, hey, that's outside of my control. The people in front of me or they're trying their best. They're trying their best to keep up in their own way and to accept it and and to actually allow myself to ingratiate myself emotionally, physically, psychologically.
Speaker 1:Where I'm at, and where I'm at is I'm on a golf course and most likely it's a beautiful place. I mean, this sounds esoteric or it sounds a little, you know, foo, foo or like fluffy, but it's true. Because if I can accept the fact that people are in front of me, are going, gonna, are, they're playing slow, that's outside of my control, I'm not gonna give my energy there, I'm not gonna sit there and resist what is. And another thing, too, is just recognizing my own resistance. If something comes up in my body, uh, where I'm noticing it, it's gonna. I'm, I need to be aware of it typically. So if I resist what is, you know what is is going to come back and just bite me right in the ass, and it's going to bite me at inopportune moments because it always has. That's the way the universe works. It's going to keep beating your ass until you figure out whoa, okay, maybe I not, maybe I shouldn't do that. Until you figure out whoa, okay, maybe I shouldn't do that. Coming from a spirit, I love this. My great friend, kira Yang, is one of the preeminent performance coaches in Canada and her words resonate with me a lot, and that is a spirit of neutrality. We said neutral, you mentioned neutral neutrality. We said neutral, you mentioned neutral.
Speaker 1:Taking the charge out of a situation, even if it's not where I want it to be, has been one of the single most empowering things I've ever done in my life on and off the golf course. Another thing that drives me crazy is traffic. I get so pissed off in traffic. Oh my God, I just lose my mind and it is just, it's like a spiritual exercise. Every time I'm stuck in traffic, I swear to God, it's so bad. So of course, you know what happens in life is going to correlate.
Speaker 1:On the golf course, I get pissed off behind slow play, accepting what is taking responsibility for that. You know, more importantly, take having an actionable program to take responsibility for that. It's easy to say, well, you shouldn't. You know, here's a shouldn't shouldn't let slow play affect you, you shouldn't let traffic affect you. But let's identify the why is it? And then deal with that and then have that transmuted to where that we can come to a neutral baseline and not let things that are outside of our control permeate and penetrate our internal environment. My internal environment is everything. It doesn't matter what I do externally, because internally, if I can control or at least work with what's going on with me internally, for that day I'm going to stack the deck in my favor.
Speaker 1:You know, once again, this is it's deep work. However, it's very simple. You really look at it, you look at it. Then it's through that where we find and express and we can have simplicity be a part of our perception, our reality. You know, and it's like a thousand steps to make it look easy. You know what a compliment if somebody says Laurie, your golf swing looks so simple no-transcript to this podcast that are going to hear your voice for the first time.
Speaker 1:Laura are high level people, high level on the golf course. And you know, for somebody who just wants to play casually, why don't you accept the fact that you can go out and just hit it all over the lot, just have a good time with it? Who cares? You know who cares? Because this game, it requires a lot. If you want to play it at a high level, you're going to have to look at yourself in the mirror up and down a lot and then try to figure out where on the pie chart you need to do the work.
Speaker 1:There's some technical stuff, sure, but in my opinion and since we're on the subject, having a high emotional IQ or aspiring to have a high emotional IQ, whatever that looks like for the individual, because you can generalize that, I like to think of myself as not losing my humanity in the effort to achieve a high emotional IQ. If I get pissed off, I allow myself to get pissed off out there, but I don't let it go to the next shot. You know I've said this before and this, one of the great examples of this, is tiger. I keep repeating the story, but it's just so powerful to me tiger woods. Everybody knows who tiger woods is yeah potentially the greatest winner of all time.
Speaker 1:He's up there on mount rushmore with jack nichols, with ben hogan, with you know whoever he allowed himself 10 feet tiger head up man, he would have some pretty pissed off reactions to shots. He would lose his mind if he hit a bad shot and he would blow every different combination of F bomb there was known to man. Right he, this is one of the greatest players of all time and he beat people mentally out there. He beat people so many times without his best golf swing. I mean I guarantee you he would say out of 84 of his victories, 20 of them as were. He really felt really good about his golf swing and he was striping it and hitting it. That's a lot of other observable data that we can look at, but a big low hanging fruit here, laura, is he allowed himself to blow that energy off? He had a 10 foot radius as soon as he got outside the 10 feet of the previous shot. That shot was gone, gone In his whole body. It was gone. That's powerful. You don't lose yourself in this journey.
Speaker 2:You don't lose the blueprint of how you were wired up in the womb. No, no, you absolutely don't. And the first thing I say to to anybody I work with, speak to, I say a lot on on the socials, on Instagram, et cetera. The mental game is unique to you. It's one of the reasons why I start with goals Okay, what do you want and why do you want it? What does success look or sound like to you? You know, because if success to someone is just going out once a week and having fun with with their mates and not getting frustrated, then they need to forget about school.
Speaker 2:you know, because they're going out, their version of success is having a laugh and so if somebody comes and says you know, my version of success is becoming a single figure handicap or or a scratch golfer, you know, then it's about actually how much work are you prepared to put in with this? You know, because you don't just have your golf swing like that and equally, you, you know, you don't have your mental game like that. This is a constant effort, but the transformations that you'll find on the course are ones that will portray into into life. It's I don't know, you know. I just think there's, there's processes, there's, there's things that people will have heard about.
Speaker 2:With regards to mental performance, you know your breathing, your visualization, your pre-shot routine, your potentially post-shot routine, which, interestingly, the post-shot routine is the thing that I tend to work with clients the most on, um. You know your pre-round, your reflection, your journaling. You know all of this kind of course management, that stuff that people think is the mental game, which in essence, it is, but it runs so much deeper than that, as we've discussed today. Post-shot routine. Do you talk a lot about that with others? Do you have your own sort of structured post-shot routine?
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely. Maybe not so much on the golf course in a tournament, but certainly after. I might do a little accountability. What did I do well? What could I do better tomorrow if the situation presents itself again? Because typically it does, and at least mentally it does.
Speaker 1:How we choose to respond to the outcome typically is my post round uh accountability. If you will post a post shot routine, post round routine for me would look like, if there's anything that I need to change strategically on the golf course that I may have made a technical mistake or at least a course management mistake, I try to keep it as simple as possible. Uh, and I might, and I always I've been pretty adamant about this, lauren, it bears repeating. And, uh, one of my post-round big things that I think about is did I adhere to my intention I set for that day? Whatever that intention is, it could be as simple as have fun, just have fun with it. Wherever it goes, it goes. Did I adhere to that? Did I have my eyes and my vision set on that North Star throughout the day and I look at it as best as I could, as best as I could, did I do that? Great? Okay, mission accomplished? You'd be surprised. I mean, I do want to score well, but the key for me to scoring well is to adhere to those intentions that I set. Those are post-round intentions, post pre-round intentions. And then how did I follow that post round? And then, typically, answers just come. You know, that's a such a simple thing for me to think about In the moment. Though, if I make a mistake in the moment, I might take a look at that if I have the mental bandwidth that day, and that's subjective. Some days I'm very grounded, I meditate, I'm a meditator, I meditate every day. Some days I wake up and I'm very secure in my body, and some days I might be all over the place. So, accepting that, um, if I wake up in the morning and I might feel a little bit tight, I might set the intention of swinging 70% that day. So it's, it's so subjective, but I think that post-round sort of accountability is going to be determined by what your intention is for that day.
Speaker 1:Hey, if you're with your buddies, like if you're with your girlfriends and you guys are there in England and you're all really good athletes and you want to have some pints out there and just hit the ball hard, set the intention to have that. I'm going to go out and drink some beers here in the US. I'm going to go out and have some cocktails with my buddies and I'm going to take wild swings at it and I'm going to crank something on my Bluetooth speaker on my golf cart. Great, have at it, have fun. There's your North Star right there. Did you have a good time? Yeah, we had a great time. How'd you play? Who cares? We had fun.
Speaker 1:Typically, when somebody says that they play well, typically Not all the time, but typically and for the serious competitor, that intention may be, hey, I'm going to swing within myself today or I'm not going to try anything that is outside my skill level. That's a big one right there, laura. I see it all the time playing with my buddies trying dumb shit shots that are outside their skill level. People do that all the time. And what is that? That's ego. I'm going to try this, why not? They don't think about the consequences, and then they get pissed off that they do that. It's, it's really a vicious cycle. So you can, you can eliminate that yeah you can eliminate that.
Speaker 2:That's a simple one right there, very simple it's like it's really interesting that whole that concept. You know this, this sort of hitting, hitting shots that you know in hindsight, golf you probably wouldn't hit, but it's this sort of this random reinforcement. You know that you get in in sort of well, you get gambling, don't you where, ultimately, these random results, you don't know what's going to happen. And it's this, this sort of addictive nature of that. Without going into sort of down another rabbit hole, but golf, ultimately we, it's the risk taking sometimes that makes it, makes it what it is.
Speaker 2:You know, bored. And you know I speak to a lot of higher handicaps that are desperate to get their handicaps down, desperate. And you know, sometimes I say to them well, you know what's. You know if you've got a handicap of 25, for example, and you've got a par five with ultimately two shots, you know, if you're playing Stableford, you know why are you taking the driver.
Speaker 1:Why don't you just?
Speaker 2:take seven iron, seven iron seven, but it's not that sort of hero shot, that reward. And and this is going back to the the what is your version of success in that round? Is it hitting hero, ship shot, hero shots and and dealing with and accepting those consequences, or is it? Are you playing for the result? And I say that you know loosely, because you're playing too much for the result in essence, but you're playing safe. What do you want from that round? Figure that out, because everybody is very quick to say what they don't want. Sometimes the first start of anything is, rather than what you don't want, let's figure out what you actually want. You know what's the opposite of anxiety, what's the opposite of feeling, you know, frustrated. What do you want? How do we create that?
Speaker 1:let's go yeah, that's it. That's the wellspring of it all. I know that for me, laura, one of the things that really clicked this year I had a really good year on the golf course and one of the things that really quick clicked was I'm going to do what I'm supposed to do out there and I'm not going to do, I'm not supposed to do so. This, the the law, break that down. I'm going to hit shots that are going to be according to my skill level. Okay, now, I can hit some decent shots out there, but if there's a situation that presents itself where it would take one of my best shots to access a pin, I'm going to rethink that and say, hey, there's some days where I have that, but it's not every day, it's just not. You know I I've talked to several people on the various tours in a 72 hole event.
Speaker 1:Uh, how, how many of those days are you hitting it how you want to hit it? Two in a good week. And these are the best players in the world. Hmm, best players in the world? Two out of four days they're hitting it like they want to hit it in a good week. Well, what am I doing here? Because I'm certainly not the best players, one of the best players in the world. But how can I, how can I take that and apply that to my own game?
Speaker 1:By not trying hero, hero golf is once in a blue moon. You know, it really is. Hero golf is is based on the ego and it's based on things that are outside of your control. When, when you have days where all systems are go sure, those are magical days, you want to take advantage of those because they don't come very often, but more often, but more often than not, accepting the fact that, hey, I'm a human being, I'm imperfect, I'm going to make mistakes. How can I maximize that very statement to my advantage? And I think that it's more impressive to me for players to go out and play without their best golf swing on that particular day and still make something of it.
Speaker 1:And I've had those days where that's been the most deeply satisfying rounds where I've just you know I might hit six, that I one time I hit eight grains of regulation and shot 66. I felt like I got away with murder in that day. But it was a day where I was thinking. I knew that I didn't have my best stuff, but I was thinking where to mess. And there there's another thing too, a little low-hanging fruit for your students, laura is the best players figure out where their outs are the best place to miss? They're not thinking of the best place where they want to hit it Well, sure they are, but they're also thinking in their thought process, the best place to miss. That's pretty profound, simple it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and it and it goes on to whatever, depending on the level, the level and the level of awareness, the level of mental game, because I I'm absolutely on board with where you're at and there is a I think with my own game I'm bordering on that and it's a conversation I have a lot of times with with the lower handicapped scratch golfers and sometimes, sometimes it's that whole. Do you? How much focus do you put on where you don't want to miss? You know, are you? Are you stood behind the ball, thinking the good miss is here, and is that actually encouraging that thought process of of you ending up going towards the miss itself, you know, in terms of that positive intention yes, the miss is here Sort of that analysis of the danger, risk, reward, better place and then channeling that focus into actually but that's where I'm going that positive intention behind the ball that I imagine, or I did imagine, came quite naturally to the much better standard of players.
Speaker 2:But I don't know what your experience of this is, but over the last 12 months I've had the opportunity of playing with, of coaching and playing with some absolutely phenomenal golfers and it's not always a given that they understand that. That last sort of thought, that last intention of where the ball is going is likely to where the ball goes. So you know, miss, left of the bunker is planting bunker. You know thinking about NLP and and how you know this, the language is, is is facing. But what's your experience of that with the level and the standard that you've played with? Is this well known? In my experience so far, it tells me not that it perhaps isn't well known.
Speaker 1:No, and it's one of the lowest hanging fruits, in my opinion, laura, and that's such a great comment and a great question. For it's, in my opinion, laura, and that's such a great comment and a great question Inside the mind of a good golfer. I would suspect that if he or she is sizing up a shot and there's a pin, there's a whole location that may be inviting it's risk reward. It's really satisfying if you pull the shot off, but if you don't, the consequences are pretty severe. You know, for me, I would contemplate that situation, as where's my best these decisions is how can I make the most aggressive swing at the most conservative target in relation to this particular shot? You know, dr Rotella was, you know, a big, aggressive, cocky attitude, conservative or cocky swing, conservative attitude, something like that, and that really permeates as far as how you measure a shot, as far as where I'm going to leave myself and out the best miss. That would be most likely on going for a par five and two or a tougher shot. You know, a mid to a long iron shot. That would be more likely the case shorter irons. I'm going to be more aggressive. I'm definitely going to be more aggressive. I've been working very hard on my wedge game. I'm a big fan of wedges and I'm going to use those to my advantage. So what I want to do strategically is take the big miss out of play by the shot selection. It's taking a club that I can swing aggressively, that I know. Say, for example, if long is dead, then I'm going to take a club that I know I'm not going to hit long. If left is dead, I'm going to take a strategy where I know I'm not going to miss it left. I just know these things. There's things that you can stack in your favor simply by learning how to take the right golf club and take the right strategy.
Speaker 1:I think, in terms of observing what is doesn't have a necessarily, necessarily a negative charge on your body. If you notice well, I don't want to, I mean we're, we're NLP will kick in and where you'll imprint whatever is going to happen, you say, well, if you're, if only if you are lining up a shot, and you say, well, if you're, if only if you are lining up a shot, and you say, well, I don't want to miss it left. Okay, look at that, though Objectively. That's your consciousness giving you a boundary. Okay, All right, yeah, sure I don't want to miss it left because that's a bogey or a double or whatever it is. So if your body or your mind is telling you that's a problem, listen to it. Take a club where it's no longer a problem. Then you will. You'll basically disinfect that charge because you already are going on a different road. So I think that's really important. But you know that to get to that level of awareness, it has to be at the forefront of your consciousness. You have to set those intentions.
Speaker 1:When I'm playing in a golf tournament, I don't try hero shots ever, hardly ever, unless it's one of those magical days where all systems are go. You know, all systems go Sure, but that's few and far between. I accept that it's okay. It's okay because I can still make birdie the other way, I could still make par the other way. And and another thing too, where I want to share with your students and something that I've been thinking about A bogey is not a bad score. It's not a bad score, provided that you don't self-inflict a bogey. And how to apply your emotional intelligence through working with you, folks like you, is, in my opinion, going to help someone a lot more than just going and beating balls on the range.
Speaker 1:Like I said before and I say it again, you're not going to outwork your fear Sorry, you're not. You're going to have to work on that separately. You're not going to outwork your anxiety Sorry, you're going to have to work on that separately. And when you do, you can transmute that anxiety into excitement. It's really addictive. When you get under the gun in whatever it is, and you're in the hunt, there's no greater feeling in the world. Sure, it's disappointing to lose, but getting yourself there it's a lot of fun. It's like going on a roller coaster. It's like learning how to swim for the first time. It's terrifying at first, but once you get in the ocean or you get into a body of water, you learn to love it.
Speaker 1:And I mean I'm going to end the conversation by saying, at least on my end, by saying enjoy the challenge and gratiate yourself in the process. And I'm really grateful that people like you exist, laura, because there's a lot of great coaches. There's a lot of great golf coaches and I'm not poo-pooing any technical coach at all, but the best players in the world know this information, they know this technology and they have for a long time and they've been saying it in their interviews. But it's not sexy, it's not a massive headline. It's like if Tiger Woods says, well, I keep it as simple as possible, a reporter might let that go right over his or her head and ask about something completely different. I mean, scotty Scheffler says the one thing I do, that my greatest strength is I have the ability I have always had the ability to be in the present moment. It's the best player on the planet.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The best player on the planet by far as says it every time he's interviewed. It's like you guys are all idiots. I stay in the moment. Who cares what my feet do? You guys all want to talk about what my feet do, but what I do is I stay in the moment. It's like no, no, no. Scotty Shuffler's feet are all over the place and he's thinking to myself. He's thinking so. I'm kicking everybody's ass. Right now. Let's talk about what I really, really, really think about, and I have the ability to stay in the present moment. That doesn't make him a cyborg, that doesn't make him less than human. He gets pissed too and he gets excited too.
Speaker 1:Embrace that you as a human being. Embrace that. You embrace those emotions, but you don't let them control you. You don't let them take over based on things that are outside of your external circumstances. I mean, I'll leave you with this thought Just think what it would be like to go out on the golf course and be 100% comfortable in your own skin and you literally do not give a shit what anybody thinks of you. You, it doesn't even enter your mind. How much freedom will you have? How much freedom will you have physically, emotionally, psycho, psychologically and, ultimately, if you can go out and you can play golf free, you're going to play pretty well and you're going to have the time of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anything to add on that?
Speaker 2:I'd love to say you took the words right out of my mouth, but I think you perhaps said them slightly better than I would have done. But yeah, everything you've said, absolutely everything you've said. And the Scotty sheffield point is really interesting because he literally does say that in most of his interviews at some point. And people don't run and get a mental game coach or a mental performance coach, but they're all trying his new swing or they're also new, not a new swing, but they're all trying his new swing, or they're also new, not a new swing, but they're all trying his footwork yeah it's just.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, isn't it? But no, I think you've. You've ended it phenomenally well and just thank you very much, jesse, for the opportunity. It's been a super conversation. I've learned a lot. I'm not sure how much you've learned, but it's been a great conversation nonetheless.
Speaker 1:Always do, and I'd love to have you on again, laura. I think this is a conversation that you and I can continue ad infinitum, so I'd love to have you back on several times and let's continue this, because I think that this needs to be spoken a lot more than it is. Yeah, yeah, thank you very much, um, and yeah, I would love to come back. Love to laura scott, everyone you, thank you.