Flag Hunters Golf Podcast

The Forgotten Master Moves in Golf

• Jesse Perryman

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Swedish golf coach Petter Tarbe shares his groundbreaking approach called "Forgotten Master Moves" which focuses on rediscovering the efficient swing techniques used by golf legends from the 1940s-1960s. His research reveals that focusing on club intentions rather than body mechanics creates more powerful, injury-free golf swings that feel natural and require less effort.

• Moving from positional training to intention-based motion
• Understanding the key difference between base level and master level golf
• Using perceived power in the club to create a "whipping" downswing
• Keeping a straighter spine angle to prevent injury and create more reaction
• Learning how elite players throughout history have separated feel from reality
• Discovering how proper intentions create forces that automatically produce the correct body movements
• Creating simpler, more effective swings that can perform under pressure

Check out Petter's work at www.forgottenmastermoves.com or search "Forgotten Master Moves" on YouTube for more information.


Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. I am your host, jesse Perryman, along with my co-host and fellow commiserator, justin Tang, who is the lead instructor out of the Tanimera Golf Club in Singapore. And a couple of announcements before we get into the main body. First thing first is I want to announce my friend and coach, tanya Oliver is a high-level performance coach for entrepreneurs and anyone who is having a deep desire to descend in this life. She works with high-level business people, athletes myself, yours truly, of course and she's my sister from another mystery and I swear by her. She has a 30-day emotional mastery course for entrepreneurs. It actually starts today, on the 31st, as of this releasing of this podcast, and you can really get into some of the depths when we talk about golf and a lot of the body of this podcast is really getting into the nervous system and doing some rewiring. We talk about the golf swing, of course, but we talk about really the engine that runs it, all the mind behind it and what the greats have done and they've all been emotional masters and what the greats have done and they've all been emotional masters having mastery over themselves in the moment, no matter what's going on outside of them in their external environment is really something that's the fruit that we need to be eating from the tree of golf wisdom as we learn from the greats, and Tanya gets into the nuts and bolts of that. Just give you an example it's 30 days of tactical training. Folks. This is right down our alley the folks who listen to this podcast. She gets any anxiety, fear, overthinking, anger, resentment, guilt, self-doubt, discouragement. I don't know how many people struggle with that on the golf course my goodness, I know I do. Addictions, cravings, attachments, huge procrastination, shame, overwhelm. Get in there, check it out. Starts actually today, july 31st, at 6 pm Eastern, 3 pm Pacific, and her links are. I'll tell you here in a second. It's ultimateachieversacademycom, ultimateachieversacademycom, and if you're having any trouble with that, you can find her on Instagram as well at Tanya Oliver, at Tanya C Oliver is her Instagram handle and she has all the proper links there, so go check that out. And one thing I'll leave this segment of the intro with is that pay what you can afford. For the first time in her career, she is basically saying pay what you can, and I've been working with this lady for quite a while now and I can tell you that that's a gift from God, so check it out. Tanya Oliver, ultimateachieversacademycom.

Speaker 1:

So now we're going to get into the intro of our guest this week and his name is Petter Tarbe. Petter is kind of cut from the same cloth that a lot of the Bradley Hughes and ABS advanced ball striking students are. In fact, petter is a part of the ABS community or has been during his career, is a part of the ABS community or has been during his career, and his centralization with the golf swing is golf's forgotten master moves, and the master moves were exemplified from all the greats and they're exemplified today as well, primarily with Scotty Scheffler, and Petter talks about that. I am going to make sure that I leave his links in the show notes as well, but his website is ForgottenMasterMovescom Petter Tarbe. It's P-E-T-T-E-R Tarbe T-A-R-B-E for those of us in the United States who don't understand.

Speaker 1:

And he is in Northern Europe and he works with a lot of really good players and he has a lot of great things to say and breaks it down to the simplification of what the greats did and what we can pull from them, and he says something to that I find very interesting in regards to the modern game, where the modern game, the old school equipment, you had to make a move. You had to make a good move to hit these things. And the modern day equipment, you don't have to make such a good move to have the ball go where it needs to be, and that's something just to keep in mind. I'm not against technology. I'm not necessarily for it. However, it is what it is. You want to take advantage of it while it's there, of course, but we can still take some of that wisdom and apply it to our own golf swings. No matter what equipment we're using, whether it's yesteryears or today's equipment, it's still going to help our golf swings moving forward. So have a listen. Folks Enjoy. And then one last thing I am on YouTube Flag Hunters Golf so I'm going to start releasing some of these episodes on YouTube and some tidbits here and there, which is going to be fun. So, flag Hunters Golf on YouTube. Check out, tanya, and enjoy this interview with Petter. Justin and I had a great time. We're certainly going to have him on again and cheers everyone. Have a great week.

Speaker 1:

Hello, this is Jesse Perryman from the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast, welcoming you to another edition along with my co-host and friend and fellow seeker in this game, justin Tang. He is in Singapore at the Tanimera Golf Club, so if you're ever in Singapore, it would be a crime not to hit him up with his wealth of knowledge and his helpful information, and it's a privilege to have him as a friend and a co-host. And today our mutual guest is Petter Tarbeck. He is in Sweden, of all places. You know. For such a Petter, thank you for coming on and for such a small country. You all are really getting more and more advanced in the research, the study of this game and really getting into the depths and the simplicity of what it takes to get better and realize who we want to become out there on the golf course. Thank you for coming and welcome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much for allowing me to be here. I just want to say that first off the bat that the Flag Hunter podcast for me has been so influential over the years, so I'm really honored to be a part of it. So thank you for having me and I hope that I can share something that is of value for someone out there yeah, thanks for coming on better.

Speaker 3:

For our listeners this is a very, very special treat. Most of us have sought to improve our golf swing through positional training, through trackman, through the use of force plates. Even Petter's approach is called forgotten master moves and he delves very deeply into how the greats of the 40s, 50s and 60s forged great swings that held up under pressure, utilizing, by today's modern standards, very, very difficult to use tools, and they still shot really good scores around the historical tracks of golf that are still around to this very day. So could you give us a brief introduction?

Speaker 2:

So, Per, could you give us a brief introduction into how you got to the game of golf? Yeah, absolutely, and thank you so much for the introduction there as well. Like so I don't have the conventional background of playing the big tournaments and getting into the coaching game in that way, but I kind of more represent a normal golfer, if you will, that's gone through the transformation of having kind of a dysfunctional motion and getting to a much more efficient golf swing With a slight twist, like you spoke about. That I've had kind of you know, free-dived into the realms of swing technique and you know I fell in love with the concept of swing change and I really, you know, kind of delved into this kind of old school motion, if you will, because I played all of my competitive golf in my youth with a very potent two-way miss, if you will. So I would shoot 72 or I would shoot 90 without any form of stability, so I just kind of dropped out of the game.

Speaker 2:

But then I resurfaced into the game again, like in my early 30s so I'm 44 when this is launched and I just came in it with a new mindset. I wanted to create a functional golf swing and that's kind of a. You know my golf history. I started at the age of seven. I played loads and loads and loads of golf, but I think it's the last 10 or 12 years where I really like digged into what's actually better golf right? So it's kind of a start for it.

Speaker 3:

So where was the moment where you realized whatever you were doing could become better, and when did you realize there was an alternative way?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So when I got back into golf again in my 30s um, I'm playing down in south sweden and it's these kind of very windy conditions, right, so I'm hitting a very, very high golf shot like a non-compressed golf shot, and I just feel like there is something else that I can do and I go back in my memories and I'm thinking about all the great players that I've played with, because I've been fortunate enough to play with players that have made it all the way to the big tours and made it all the way to the biggest of the scenes, right, and I just try to like figure out what did they do? And I start to get into swing change, right, and for me that that was just it. I just, I just found this to be so interesting, this riddle, this dedicated sessions, and you know all that it took, and I really like that cocktail, right.

Speaker 2:

So when, when I understood a little bit more about golf technique, a little bit more about mechanics, I could actually transform my swing to make it a lot better. But it was almost like there was always a balance of how much mechanics can you do and how abstract do you need to be, and I always felt that when I was more abstract, I could perform it, and when I was more mechanical, I could perform it. On the training field right. So I really felt like there was a big difference in in mechanics to becoming better, but the abstract sensation of performing it was the most important part so was that the eureka moment, steve so.

Speaker 2:

So the eureka moment from uh, from a playing perspective, was, I would say I said that I played with a two-way miss, right, uh, when I managed to get one of the sides out of play, when I took the left side of the course out of play. So I'm a righty player, right. Then I felt okay. Now I feel secure in my golf. It was just so much easier and I could start shooting on the par quite frequently and it was an easier game. So, yeah, having some kind of blade control that took the left side was really a eureka moment for playing better golf for me.

Speaker 3:

So can you talk a little bit about why you decided to start teaching? What did you discover that made you go like, hey, I found the secret for players to get better faster. What was that? When did that happen and what happened for you to make that switch?

Speaker 2:

So this was actually a very profound moment for me, because you notice when you're playing on the course and you're posting a low number but you still feel like, yeah, it could have gone either way. But when I started to feel more secure, this was very much a feeling of joy in my golf and I felt like I want to pass this on right. And so I'm standing with my old golf buddy and we're beating balls right and he is standing behind me and I'm I'm actually giving him my medicine because he has the same swing fault and I just hear that his compression is going from this clunky noise to this. You know these really nice strikes and I'm just smiling to myself and then suddenly, after striping 10 golf balls or something, he just stops and he doesn't say anything.

Speaker 2:

So I have to turn around and see what's going on. And I look on him and he's like deflated. He stands on the, on the, on the hitting mat, and he's just standing like his head is down. And I have to ask him hey, what's what's going on? Buddy, I thought you were doing good. And he's looking up on me and, um, there are tears coming down his cheeks right. And he says to me I finally compressed the golf ball and in that moment I just felt this is the best feeling ever. I need to get into coaching. So that was definitely it for me. I wanted to pass on what I knew about the golf swing to other people.

Speaker 3:

So let's talk about the Forgotten Master Move call conclusions. And you also mentioned a dear friend of ours, uh, per kelfeld. Absolutely, um, and what's his, uh, what's his part in fmm?

Speaker 2:

absolutely so, um, just a short backstory there. So when, when I got into coaching, I I just felt like I needed to understand how this works. Right, I could pass on knowledge in a very nice way, I could make it very impressionable for my students, but deep down, I felt like I don't know that much. I need to know more, right? So we actually met at the teacher conference, me and Per schellfeld uh, like pga step one, right, um, and he was one of the most interesting persons I ever met. He knew more about the golf swing than anyone that I've ever met and he knew more about the golf, you know, contextual information than anyone I ever met.

Speaker 2:

So we kind of started this dialogue and he has been. You know, our dialogue has been very foundational for, you know, the, the different conclusions that we have come up with together. Some of the conclusions that I'm going to talk about are, like you know, conclusions for myself, but many of them are inspired by our talks. So I would just love to just thank Per for all of these great conversations, all of these great conversations. So he's like in the foundations, if you will, but the forgotten master moves the way that I teach it it's my own style, so to say so, how different is it?

Speaker 3:

Tell our listeners how different is forgotten master moves from traditional golf instruction, like stack and tilt, like morat, the golfing machine give us a flavor of of what to expect?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so that's a. That's a great question and I would say that it's um, it's a very big difference because, like in in stack and tilt or tilt or golfing machine or morad, I mean we're into the positions right, p1 to p10 and you're going to work the positions in all of these, in my opinion, difficult areas of the golf swing right and so Forgotten Master Moves is much more about how you use the golf club, how you aim your intentions, your abstract feelings, to what you're supposed to do to the golf club. And I would say that many, many other protocols I'm not going to point anyone out there, right, but are more into saying you know, do this with the body and this and this and this with the body. And I feel that when I have intentions in the golf club and when I teach intentions in the golf club, then the body actually moves.

Speaker 3:

So there's a very big difference and especially in the feeling of performing it can you give us a little bit more detail into what these intentions are with the golf club? Not necessarily asking you to give away the entire forgotten master moves modules.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, definitely I mean I'm gonna talk about the conclusions as well there, but but I feel like, okay, so let's put it this way. So you have, you have a downswing and a through swing right and somewhere, somewhere along the you know, along the decades there has been different instruction and kind of vague instruction where you're saying that you should swing the club head or swing the handle or swing the shaft or something like that, saying that you should swing the club head or swing the handle or swing the shaft, or something like that, and I actually find them to be, you know, very good instruction. It's just that they're not very descriptive. So what I'm talking about when I'm talking about intentions in the golf club is that you have a, whenever you're performing a motion, you have a perceived perceived, uh power in the club. Like when you are and when you're turning in transition, you can feel the forces a little bit outside of the handle, and when you're moving down in the motion, this kind of feeling is moving dynamically in the golf shaft and that means that when you get in tune with this perceived power, you can actually maneuver it.

Speaker 2:

So in the way that I'm teaching, I'm basically teaching three things. Right, I'm teaching a backswing a certain way. I mean it's not super rigid, but you can be in a better position or a worse position and then I'm teaching this feeling and in the downswing it's more like a whipping motion that is happening a lot earlier than you think and it's aimed in another direction than you think. And a through swing is how you grab this power and you can either, you know, aim the power in one direction or another direction, depending on your preferences, and when you do that you actually create a reactive body. And this is what I feel is the biggest contribution that I have that if you are in a decent backswing position and you get good through abstract concepts in maneuvering this golf club, your body actually moves.

Speaker 3:

I like those two words reactive body. Someone said this before if your golf swing felt like what you saw, you would be scratched. And having taught for 20 years now, I've come to the realization that when my students see me make a golf swing, everyone has a different perceived translation of what they think went into that motion. Some guys might literally take the club and say coach, made a back swing and wraps the club round behind them. Some guys would think, oh, it's a diagonal move, kind of gets it on plane, brings it down on plane, leans the shaft forward quite by accident, hits a great shot, hooked on the goal for life. Another one thinks that I'm using the loft of the club face and attempting to lift the ball up. That's why the ball goes up in the air. And I think it's worth repeating something that I I always share with jesse the core of my personal swing philosophy, ifm intentions create forces on the golf club expressed in the motion of the swing.

Speaker 3:

It is my sincere belief, much in line with what you are saying, that if I can change someone's intentions of what to do with the golf club, the motion would change, the ball flight would change, the club position would change, often quite by magic, only if the golfer is sincere. So I really like what you say about the reactive body. I think we could spend a lot of time talking about if the golf swing all hands, body. Well, it depends on what you're feeling right. If you're already using too much body and insufficient arm motion, I would tell you the golf swing is zero body, 100% arms. And if you've got no pivot participation, I would tell you that the golf swing is no hands and 100% body. It's all about getting the golfer back into their own neutral position. Whether it's too much arms, too little little body, there is a balancing point, as our good friend jim mordren used to say, and I think good, good golfers like yourself and jesse would attest to that definitely like what you said there what that the intentions creates forces, that creates motions.

Speaker 2:

I I I so much agree.

Speaker 3:

You're very good with words, so I really love that that was awesome you know we we also spoke about this before and I think you addressed this uh issue about talent on your youtube channel. You say you take two beginners, one the ball, one doesn't hit the ball. Then we often end up mistakenly saying golfer A is talented, golfer B is not talented. It's actually not a talent issue, it's an inner layer issue. Would you like to expound a little bit more on that?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I mean, I've seen this so many times. Right, you have two juniors standing next to each other and one is picking up the game rather quickly and the other one is just having problems, right, and yeah, I just think it's just, we're simplifying, we're saying that one has talent and one doesn't have talent, even though that, I gonna be honest, yeah, obviously it's gonna be easier for some people than other people. That's just gonna be the case. Um, but what I feel and what I'm gonna say right now is maybe not digest, that digestible.

Speaker 2:

It's like the way that I aim my intentions in the club. Right, it needs to leave space for what I call, like in my vocabulary, natural forces. Like, after all, the golf swing is a circle, right, and when you are an ellipse or whatever you would call it, and the club head creates a circle, the hands creates a circle, and whenever you're doing something with the hands hands it's like you move the hands 10 centimeters and then they want to move another 20 centimeters, and if you kind of go in and obstruct where the natural forces like of gravity and momentum and stuff is supposed to act, then I just feel that you are kind of having a conflict in your swing. So when I'm, when I'm performing a motion, I have a, you know, a swing variation that I call a through swing variation, which is just a downswing. I call it a whip only swing. I only perform like half my downswing and then the rest of it is just uh, you know natural forces and from, from my perspective, um, when it comes to this kind of unintuitive way of approaching a goal swing, I think a lot of juniors they just pick up on this.

Speaker 2:

They're standing next to someone else, that is, you know, hitting the ball a long way, they're looking at it at them and they're picking it up and someone is not picking it up and it's not like. It's not like talent, it's more like yeah, I, I happen to find a way here and I think a lot of, a lot of great golfers out there. You had this amazing podcast with mike malaska and I I appreciated the conversation so much and he he said at some point that better players sometimes forget what they have done right, and I want to teach this kind of, you know, base layer talent, if you will, to people that don't have the dynamics in the swing. It's mostly a misunderstanding of what the golf swing is, in my opinion.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I agree with that. Most modern teaching is really identifying what is wrong. Oh, you're off-plane. You're 27 degrees. You should be 60 degrees. I'm making those numbers up, so you need to be at 45 degrees, for example. So it's basically telling you what's wrong and do what's right. But oftentimes, even with the best of intentions, golfers try to do what's right, but when they look at the video it's like shit. This is like totally opposite of what I'm trying to do. So my invitation to our listeners is this if you're trying to change your golf swing, you keep doing the right thing but you keep getting the wrong look. Maybe it's time to try feeling the wrong thing and see whether keep getting the wrong look. Maybe it's time to try feeling the wrong thing and see whether you get the correct look I, I completely agree.

Speaker 2:

I mean we we talked just briefly about that in our call, like before this right about ben hogan's statement. I, I just love that statement, like it's goes something along the lines with you know, try to do the opposite of what you think and you probably got a pretty good goal swing. I mean, he probably put it a little bit nicer than that, right, but the goal's a lot into that statement and it's very, very interesting yeah, I.

Speaker 3:

I kind of feel that old school instruction was way more colorful and had a lot more description in terms of feels. Like Mike Austin, what was that? The meatball drill.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, flick a meatball into your own mouth, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and we also look at great players down through history where feel and reality are two very different things. They are in different zip codes. You can look at the practicing of Alex Norin, for example. You could look at the practicing of Corey Pavin for those old enough to remember. We could look at Tiger Woods butt drill. We could also take a look at Justin Rose arms straight down drill on the downswing to realize that, hey, what these guys are feeling is very different from what it actually looks like at full speed.

Speaker 2:

I completely agree and I think what you're mentioning there with, given that I'm Swedish, right. So I need to talk about Alex Norum. I mean that's just spectacular. Looking at what he's doing before the shot and like at this point where I am now in understanding, I kind of get it right, I get what he's trying to do. I mean he's, he's very I guess his coach is super inspired by Morad and stuff and it's, it's just spectacular to see it. And, uh, it was obviously our, our joint friend that told me that when, when Alex Norin is hitting a drive and he's three degrees up on the ball, then he feels down on the ball right, which is also interesting, um. So there's so much to it. And another favorite of many europeans is also femenis, right, his practice swing. That is also pretty interesting. It's just like a big old over-the-top move, right. Um, I find to be like a perfect, perfect.

Speaker 3:

So what? What was the impact on your game when you found out about FMM? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So along along the journey there, uh, like, it took me going out of like I, I unfortunately had to say that I had to leave coaching because the modern swing for me, um, was actually injuring myself, so I had to kind of find a way to to do something, and I I have three requirements for for fmm swing, and the first part, then, is that it needs to be non-injury inducing, because I a bit egoistically want to play golf myself, right, um. And second is that it needs power and control. It needs both of them. And the third layer is that you actually need to do it. And that's all of the intentional stuff that we have been talking about, right, um.

Speaker 2:

But I think, um, like it took me like three years to to get to a where I felt like, wow, I have the motor swing compression, but it's much kinder to the body and I can feel it at a much easier way. So there was like many, many moments during this research that I've had that has been going on for like six or seven years after my coaching ended, this research that I've had that has been going on for like six or seven years after my coaching ended, right, um. And and I just feel like the the biggest. The biggest difference is is um is that I can. I can deliver a compressed golf shot, but the swing feels so much easier in comparison to many other protocols where it feels kind of hard to do, if you will where it feels kind of hard to do.

Speaker 3:

if you will so, give us a glimpse of the research you went through in discovering FMM.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So what I did was I mean, I tried not to make it too long here, but I kind of figured out I need to. I need to, uh, go into golf history. I need to. I have been. I've been seeing such great swings over my years, playing with great players, and they're doing something completely different than the modern instruction. So what can I do?

Speaker 2:

So I started it off with just look, going through history, and I, as you said in the beginning, like the 40s, 50s and the 60s. For me, this was it right. This is where the bulk of the great swings are, and even though that you can see very nice swings from all decades and even modern swings that are beautiful as well. I just felt that their motions were great, and I also felt like I need to be able to teach this. I need to be able to do this. I need to be able to do it. So what if I can sidestep mechanics and look much more on historical statements, look more, much more on old school instruction? And so that's what I did.

Speaker 2:

So I had like a study period that went on forever and ever, and then and I also had my dialogues with perva during this time and and then I started to say to myself okay, you're getting to a swing where you can almost play from an injury perspective, but let's, let's start experimenting for real. So I put my myself in the center and then I had a tight-knit community of different people out there where I kind of tested every variation of those swings when it comes to golf technique, when it comes to you know different swings, when it comes to golf technique, when it comes to you know different intentions, when it comes to mind body connections that I could get a hold of right and I just I just tested it out, and whenever I had something that I could funnel to be somewhat what I wanted to teach, I I spoke with a lot of different people, um, so I it's, it's like an how do you call it? It's a huge study period, it's a dialogue and then it's a testing phase. And it's also one more thing and I want to make a make a big, big shout out to my, to my father, much talban um, who has been absolutely invaluable for me when it comes to understanding this.

Speaker 2:

He's been like a scratch golfer since the sixties, um, and he's, I think, one or two in handicap and he's a 77 years old and I've been able to harness his feelings from playing his best golf in the sixties, seventies and the eighties to verify what I'm doing and all of the different people in this little group that I have. They have different characteristics and he's he's what I would like to call a truth teller. So if, if I, if I tell him, hey, could you hit 200 balls on the range like this and you can't go to the golf course, then he's going to hit the golf course straight away, right? So there's, there's zero BS in the communication, and I just want to thank him for all of these great conversations. And that's roughly how I've done it. So I've combined experimentation, a tight group of test subjects, myself as a test subject, and then loads and loads of knowledge and inspiration and historical quotes and all of that.

Speaker 3:

So what were some of the results that your guinea pigs produced or experienced?

Speaker 2:

um, I mean, I've been, I've been live with with this for a while now. Um, but like from a, from a guinea pig, if you will, it's just a three-year golf swing. Um, for many, of many of those that I've spoken with, it has been a feeling of reviving something that they knew before and that they have forgotten somewhere. And that's also where the, where the name comes from, it's like I've been talking to so many people where the, the, it's just about like, yeah, I used that, right, and then they got derailed somewhere along the line. And I don't have any critique for any golf instruction because I know how difficult this is right. But when they kind of tap into what they already know and they actually made what they already know a little bit better from actually someone telling them what it was, it feels like they're freeing themselves up and they're just enjoying the game more. I would say that's the biggest benefit.

Speaker 3:

So your program also has base and a master level. Could you give more details on the distinction? And, more importantly for our listeners, petter says that if you master the base level, you can play to a plus handicap absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I mean, like I I kind of realized that the name that is called base and being plus handicap is kind of, you know, having a bit of a collision. But what I mean with the base level is this I fundamentally teach what goes into a solid strike how do you produce power, how do you accelerate power and how do you control the club face. And if you have these in an achievable intention, then there's nothing, unless you have like atrocious short game that is keeping you from plus and handicap. So I really feel like when, when you, when you have the through swing intention in check, then it's just like, yeah, the golf world is open to you. There is really no problems, because the conflict like of you know, presenting a club face that is way too open, too late, or something like that, it's not there anymore and it's just you take the shackles off if you will. Um, so that's that's what goes into the base level and the master level.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to use ben hogan now as an example. Um, I I haven't, I haven't completed the master level. I mean, it took me seven years to make the base level, so it's probably going to be a bunch of years before the master level. So what I'm talking about here is, if you look on Ben Hogan because I find him to be maybe the most interesting one out there he has, like, all the different power sources, he has everything and he still can perform under pressure.

Speaker 2:

He can do everything in golf at the same time. Can you know, perform under pressure? He can do everything in golf at the same time. And many, many instructions. I think to tries to teach the master level straight off the bat, right, but I feel like, okay, but hogan was, you know, walking around the tours for like a decade before he added this swing change layer of his best striking ever, right. So I get it from a theoretical level, but I'm not at the achievability step yet, so I don't have the masterclass already. I would love to get there in a year or two.

Speaker 3:

So what do you think is the key difference between a base level and a master level of play? Yeah, so it's like you know, you say a base level gets you to plus. Then what does a master's level get you to?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. But what I'm trying to say here is that if we look on like true master level, if you look on the guys in the 50s and the 60s and you would like time travel them into the modern game, I think they would have like plus 11, plus 12 in handicaps. I also think that scottie scheffler has probably something like that, right. I mean, their level is so high. So anything that I think like anything that, um, if you have a ball striking and you're performing like 12, 13, 14, 15 greens and regulation, there's nothing standing behind, uh, in front of you for performing good scores. If you have a solid short game on top of that, I don't see that, I don't see any obstacles right.

Speaker 2:

But when it comes to uh, to to the master level, in my opinion I I mean, I've just started to kind of you know, dig a little bit in this I just feel that it's an absolute usage of all the different you know power types that I feel that you can control from an intentional perspective.

Speaker 2:

So like if you take two versions of Ben Hogan and you put them next to each other and you say that he has a base level swing and you compare it next to each other and you say that he has a base level swing and you compare it to the master level, then it's like p6 to p8 or you know, in the impact area in the master level he's rotating harder, he's going way more left with the hands, he has a weaker grip, he's bowing his wrist, he's doing all kinds of difficult stuff in the golf swing, is doing all kinds of difficult stuff in the golf swing that I right now I have a very hard time to teach because they go outside of this abstract, intentional concept that I find that is very successful. So that's where I need to dig and understand how could he actually create this? And I know that in advanced ball striking they're doing a huge attempt of doing that as well, which I think is super cool.

Speaker 3:

So which era was Ben Hogan base level and when was he at master level?

Speaker 2:

That I can't say it's too hard. I don't know when it's like. I'm'm not the super, super historian when it comes to it. Pash Elfeld wouldn't be proud of me. Okay, I know. When he made his swing change, when he moved over to the weaker lead hand grip, when he started to rotate his lead arm in the backswing and all these kind of things, it was just after that that he started to win all of the tournaments, like in in this very, very cool, cool way okay, so let's just talk about your forgotten master moves modules.

Speaker 3:

What can students expect when they sign up with you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So, first and foremost, I have a little bit of a different approach than most when it comes to what kind of steps you go through. I have what I call a knowledge first approach, which means that you will watch like 20 theoretical videos. That is kind of underlining what I'm doing here, because the solutions are actually very, very simple. So you kind of need to answer all the subconscious questions that pop up in a golf swing, right? So first it's a, it's a step of knowledge first, and then you have a three-step process. So the first step is about creating a decent backswing position using drills to, you know, get into a good backswing and learning the strike from that perspective. So that would be more of a downswing exercise and a downswing step. And in step two it's about how do you take this pretty, pretty simple components, and how do you actually, you know, remove your, your training aids if you will, and how do you perform it freely. So it's about aiming your intentions. It's about, yeah, feeling how you can do the backswing in the best possible way, and then you have kind of, in my opinion, started to perform a pretty decent golf swing.

Speaker 2:

And then it's step three. That's where the club control comes in. So you can either go to what I call a whip only swing or you can make two other variations where you add a lot of club control into the whole motion and you're utilizing the intention that you did in the downswing to continue this connection with the golf club in the through swing and that also makes the body work in a very nice way. So those are the steps that you go through and in in the way that I do it, I always start with how would we call it that? You so like a questionnaire. You are deep into what you're right now we have a discussion of what will your like you know, particular strengths or challenges be going into this, and we we just have a very dialogue based swing change and but those are the steps so I went through some of the program and I would say for me it wasn't too difficult to pick it up.

Speaker 3:

But what about the average golfer? Call it the 10 handicap and below would they expect a lot of issues in transitioning to this very different program? Or?

Speaker 2:

now. So I'm I'm super happy to say that, um, with all my clients initially here I mean that's that's the bulk of them right between 8 and 13 14 in handicap and they have produced such a big difference in their motion. Um, and what most of them have felt before starting this is that mechanical instruction doesn't work for them. So the way that I instructed that you have some mechanical stuff you need to do in the backswing, it's like the backswing you can do it, but in the downswing and the through swing, mechanical instruction is difficult. So my results is I'm I'm super happy with how if you say like more, you know good players but not not that their full potential has been able to perform it.

Speaker 3:

So I'm super happy about that yeah, well, without giving too much of your program away, I did some of the moves and then I realized that the backswing kind of takes care of itself. It's just the brain trying to adapt itself to. Okay, if I want to make this whipping down swing move, then where do I need to be on the bat in order to affect that? And I, I, I didn't take more than 10 balls before I started realizing hey, that's that very soft fade that I like to play penetrating. It didn't really curve to the right, but when the ball was landing it just kind of like slid maybe one, two yards to the right max.

Speaker 3:

And I felt like I could just go as hard as I wanted or as soft as I wanted. I think the most important thing for me is having gone through all these technical practice, technical instruction. It was nice to just react to the ball, react to the shot in my mind, okay, I'll just do it. It felt like I was kicking a football, if you will that's amazing.

Speaker 2:

That's I'm so. I'm so happy to hear that I mean in. In my opinion, that's what I want of a golf swing. I just wanna, I wanna react and I just wanna hit it soft when I want to, or crack it up when I when I need to, right. So I'm very happy to hear that yeah, you know.

Speaker 3:

Can you talk a little bit about the, the straight spine in your in your system and how different that is compared to modern golf instruction and how it can preserve our bodies for longer golf into our older years?

Speaker 2:

yeah definitely, um, I mean this. This is like very, very important for myself and for many other people as well. Actually, I think it's like almost half of my students have come into this with some kind of injury, um, and it's been a lot of wrist injuries, it's been back injuries and myself, unfortunately, I've had more back injuries than you want to have, right. So I started off with saying like this In the modern swing, let's use an extreme example. Let's use Dustin Johnson, right, you would use the body to be very shallow, you would have loads and loads of side bend, right, lateral bend, all this kind of stuff, and it's almost like the club is a steepener but the body is a shallower, right, in the most extreme comparison, and it's not 100% factual, correct. This motion is more like the body is steep but the club is shallowing. For you, I'm not talking about casting the club out, right, but you're utilizing the downswing arc, you're utilizing the club in this region, which I think, like loads and loads of great players over the ages, they have just intuitively done this, which means like, for instance, jimenez, he needs to do the opposite, right, he needs to come over the top because it's too much from the inside, but he's still not having secondary access tilts, which is super cool. Jimenez, he needs to do the opposite right. He needs to come over the top because it's too much from the inside, but he's still not having secondary axis tilts, which is super cool. So back to your question then.

Speaker 2:

So the straight spine is really about how can you, how can you put yourself in a position in the top backswing where you actually, I would say, have slightly of a negative spine angle towards the target, because if you do that, then the body will react much more to your intentions. If you're performing a power protocol I would say whatever power protocol and you have secondary axis tilt in the top backs backswing position, it's my feeling that you will induce more secondary axis tilt in the downswing. And whenever you're having too much secondary axis tilt and whenever you're pushing your club too much away from the body in the through swing, I have the feeling that this is um, this is contributing to compressed vertebrates and are basically problems, right? So the spine angle for me can I keep it straight, then I will have a more reactive body. Can I keep it slightly negative in the top backswing position? Then my body will be even more reactive and it's just opening up you know how do you call it the realms of using the golf club. So I absolutely love that.

Speaker 3:

That's a key so tell us, uh, tell our listeners how they, how they can sign up for this program yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Um, I mean I have my youtube channel so you can go and you can search for Forgotten Mastermoves and you can check it out there. And I also have I'm recently launched on Skillist where I have this kind of free consultation and free evaluation, if you will. So you can definitely check me out there. Or I have my homepage, which is wwwforgottenmastermovescom, so you can use either of those. Which is wwwforgottenmastermovescom, so you can use either of those.

Speaker 3:

Can you talk about what programs are available?

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry, Justin, what was that?

Speaker 3:

Could you tell our listeners what programs are available for them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure. So at this point I only and only I have what I call the base level swing, which is basically everything that we have talked about in a much deeper concept, and in a year's time, or two years time, I will have what I call master level as well, but that's still in the works, right? Basically these two intentions. How do you create a downswing, how do you create a through swing through using the club head and making that the main character in the show? So that's the program that I have and it revolves around that, and you can do it yourself, or you can take some video feedback sessions with me or whatever you want, right? So I'm quite flexible with that.

Speaker 3:

Anything else you want to tell our listeners before we end this interview?

Speaker 2:

no, like I, I really, I really think that once you, once you get around to allowing yourself to let the club work, a lot of positive stuff happens in your golf swing. So it's been been an absolute pleasure to speak with you, with you guys, in this, and thank you so much for having me on the show. I appreciate it a lot thank you better.

Speaker 3:

Any last questions for better, jesse uh, nope, I pre petter.

Speaker 1:

I really appreciate you coming on, my friend, and keep up the good work, keep up the research and I think you're on to something.

Speaker 3:

Seven years. It's incredible.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much and I just want to. I want to state that again that, like it's, I really enjoy the work that you're doing, so I appreciate it a lot.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, and I'm it a lot Thank you, and I'm sure our listeners will benefit greatly from all your research and your program. And guys, here it is again wwwforgottenmastermovescom.

Speaker 1:

And that's also the same on YouTube, correct? Forgotten Master Moves. Yeah, okay, great, and I'll make sure to have all of that in the show notes, all of the pertinent information, petter. Thank you, justin, thank you as always. Thanks, pal.