Flag Hunters Golf Podcast

Self-Taught Golf, True Grit, And Five PGA Tour Wins With Carl Pettersson

• Jesse Perryman

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We sit down with Carl Pettersson to unpack a self-taught swing, a calm competitive mind, and what truly sustains a long PGA Tour career. From on-course practice to a coming Champions Tour run, he shares clear, practical lessons for players who want to score.

• multi-sport roots leading to golf specialization
• move to the U.S. and growth through junior competition
• self-taught swing built on feel and observation
• confidence as the engine of consistency and scoring
• practicing on the course to master trajectories
• old-school approach versus stats and tech
• driving and ball striking as keys to longevity
• equipment setup for shaft lean and launch needs
• distance debate and tee height perspectives
• injuries, hip surgeries, and loss of form
• plan for Korn Ferry reps before Champions Tour
• family life on the road and PGA Tour childcare
• Tuesday games, camaraderie, and keeping it fun
• blunt advice for aspiring tour players on scoring

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To find Justin best, please find him on Instagram @elitegolfswing or email him, justin@elitegolfswing.

To find Jesse best, also find him on Instagram @flaghuntersgolfpod or TEXT him, (831)275-8804.

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SPEAKER_01:

Hello and welcome once again to another edition of the Flaghunters Golf Podcast. I'm your host, Jesse Perryman, along with my co-host Justin Tang, which is worthy of an announcement. He is moving on from the Tantamera Golf Club in Singapore. While he still is will remain in Singapore, he now is the lead instructor for Hidden Castle Golf Club. So those are who are longtime listeners and who know Justin, he is moving on to a different opportunity. However, he still will be available for all those who are interested in either seeing him in person in just in Singapore, excuse me, or uh having lessons from him online, and all of those links will be in the show notes as they usually are. And this week, without further ado, is tour player Carl Peterson. Carl originally is from Sweden, however, spending the majority of his youth and growing up in Northern California, excuse me, North Carolina, and played on the PGA tour for many years, won five times out there. And those who know, he his golf swing was really cool. He had one of the one of the really good and interesting golf swings out there. And uh interestingly enough, as you listen, he's completely self-taught. Uh a self-driver, self-taught, self-technician, uh self-motivated, and he explains it in the conversation. So I don't want to give uh too much away here, but I I really I know that Justin and I both really enjoyed this conversation. And Carl says a lot and explains it uh clearly and in some pretty darn good detail, and there's a lot of low-hanging fruit the rest of us can get from this great, great, great player. Uh, without further ado, here's the main body of the podcast. I'm gonna kindly ask again to please rate, review, and subscribe. Justin and I love to listen and hear about uh get some feedback, and any feedback is fantastic. And also, too, don't be afraid to message us if there's anybody that you'd like to have on that we can uh uh uh possibly get on. Feel free to fire us a message. Uh my my contact information will be in the show notes as well as Justin's, and I hope everybody enjoys this episode with one of the greats. Carl Petterson, thanks again for tuning in and cheers, everyone, and have a blessed week. Hello and welcome once again to another edition of the Flaghunters Golf Podcast. I welcome you. My name is Jesse Perryman, along with my co-host, which has transferred over from the Tanamera Golf Club to the Hidden Castle Golf Club in Singapore. And if you're a first-time listener, his name is Justin Tang, one of the great instructional minds in the game, and our guest today is none other than Carl Peterson. Carl is originally from Sweden, but has spent most of his life in Northern Carol, North Carolina, which is kind of funny, Carl. You're you're you're uh walking, you're you're walking uh who we would think that you wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah, yeah. Most definitely.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but thanks for coming on, Carl. Justin, thanks, pal.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks, guys. Hey, yeah. Thanks for having me. It's uh it's a big honor uh for us to have you. Maybe selfishly from my point of view, because I your swing is something that I studied a lot of when I was uh getting certified as an instructor. No, man. Certainly a very, very unique swing. And my coach back then, Calvin Miyahira, said, if you cannot explain Carl Peterson's swing, it's not Carl's problem, it's your problem. Because your system is not robust enough. And I go, okay. So uh before we delve into the coaching aspects of golf and your plans for 2026, could we have an introduction from you about how you got into golf?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I was obviously born in Sweden, and uh both my parents played golf, more so my father, and uh I have got an older brother. So golf was always in our family, and uh I played every every sport known to I mean, I played a lot of different sports, and uh golf was just one of them. And then when I was about 12, 13, I really uh I really got interested in golf. And and by the time I was 14, I'd quit all the other sports and was just concentrating on golf. But I got I got into golf through my uh through my family, really.

SPEAKER_00:

So can you talk a little bit about your multi-sport background? It seems that a lot of juniors these days specialize too early.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I think so. You know, I play at every sport. I think it helps to play a lot of sports with movement and learning movement and and handout coordination and stuff like that. So I think the more sports you can play at a young age is is better. And then uh if you get really good at one, maybe focus on that around 14, 14, 13, 14, 15.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what was your progression like through the ranks of junior golf in the US?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we moved to my family and moved to America when I was 17, and I was you know very into golf and had developed, I think from 15 to 17, I'd gotten pretty good at golf. And uh we came over here and it was a whole new system. I was excited to move to America. It was we came because of my dad's work, and uh, but I was excited because I knew it was a great opportunity for golf and and and playing good golf courses and good practice facilities, and uh uh started playing high school golf, and then we played in the summer some AJJ tournaments and a bunch of local junior events.

SPEAKER_00:

So you mentioned earlier before we hit record that you were a self-taught golfer. It's a homemade swim, essentially, in your own words.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's my swing. Uh nobody's I had some lesson lessons when I first started in Sweden at a very young age. Nothing, you know, maybe four or five lessons, and then off I went. And then I had a little bit of coaching when we moved to England from our local pro, not not more than 10 lessons. And uh that's about it, really. And then um I've just kind of done it myself and I just go more on fuels. And um, and I like now, don't get me wrong, I've after been spending 18 years on the on the tour, I've had I've asked other coaches, you know, when I've been playing bad to to give me some advice and stuff, but I've always I've always reverted back to doing it myself and trying different things on the range and and different fuels that I that I revert back to to try to help me hit it, hit it better. I just like doing it myself. I feel like I'm driving the car versus uh somebody else driving it for me.

SPEAKER_00:

So, what instruction manual did you use, so to speak? Oh, there was nothing. There must have been some kind of a baseline that you you use. Oh, when I hit it bad, I'm gonna revert to this swing thought or this intention.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I just watched and learned and and and uh copied other pros and and and watched good players, and and that was about it. Uh sports has always come pretty easy to me. I've always had a pretty good handout coordination, and uh so I just did it myself, just through hit trial and error, really, and trying different shots and hitting a lot of balls and playing and and that that's just it. Really, I I I I've lived and breathed golf my whole life. It's the it's the only thing I've ever really done. And then if you want to be successful, if you want to play the PJ tour, you need to, you know, you need to eat eat, live, dream the game, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you mentioned that you learn from watching better uh uh players. And our listeners that are not familiar with you might be mistaken. You are one of the most successful Swedish professional golfers having won five times on tour, making you one of the most successful players from Sweden alongside Jesper Panovic and Henrik Stensen.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, um uh I I can't I can't really believe it, but now when you say it, it's uh uh it comes across nice, thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

And back then there was this uh Swedish invasion, if you remember, there was Jamo Sandelion, yeah, Carlsen, Herr Ulrich Johansson. Also great times. Yeah. And uh yes, yes, but obviously it came very close to winning the uh British Open.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he sure did. Yeah, he definitely he probably should have won it, but but but it just didn't happen for him.

SPEAKER_00:

And then obviously Henrik uh uh sealed the deal.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, Henrik has been has been the best player, without a doubt. He he really came on strong. We kind of turned pro at the same time. Uh he was he's always been a very good player. Unfortunately for Henrik, he lost his game a couple of times. And and uh was able to ride the ship and come back, which shows how strong he is mentally. But uh Henrik is probably the best player from Sweden, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. He grew up under the uh Swedish system. Were you ever under the Swedish system?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh not really until I had just finished college because I, you know, my parents I moved from Sweden when I was 10. Then we lived in England and then North Carolina. But uh my senior year of college, I guess the Swedish national team had noticed my name. I've got a very Swedish last name, and uh I was playing fairly well. And uh right towards the end of my college season, uh Swedish national coach actually called me up and asked if I was Swedish, and I uh I said yes. And he's like, How would you like to come back and play some tournaments for us? The European amateur and uh the world amateur, and then I got an invite to the Scandinavian Masters, and uh so I actually ended up doing that. Um I represented Sweden and uh uh so that was a great honor, uh, even though I didn't feel very Swedish, to be honest with you, but it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, Carl, I gotta I gotta tell you, um, you know, Justin and I are just kind of giddy here on this on this other side of the screen. And I remember from about 2006 to 2012, there was a lot of talking heads that were talking about your game. You obviously were extremely consistent during that time, and they talked about your golf swing a lot, and it was really uh a thing and fodder for study. Was there anything that you were doing uh during that time, let's say 2006 to 2012, that really stood out because your consistency was was pretty remarkable. Were you doing anything? Did you have any thoughts or feels? Please please share.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm sure I had some feels I can't remember. I remember I had a feeling for my short ons that was different than my long arms. I can't quite really explain. Obviously, my head was in a good spot. I was playing well. I had a calm head, if that kind of explains anything. There wasn't a whole lot going on, and uh and uh it was a great yeah. I played really well from end of 05 through uh 2012, and uh I was just at peace with my game and uh it was just fun to play, and I wasn't I wasn't scared to play if that meant if if that kind of explains anything.

SPEAKER_00:

It was uh when you yeah, when you see at peace, could you go into more details for the benefit of our listeners?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, when you swing feels great, you kind of know you're gonna you show up and you're like, I'm gonna play good today. And even if you don't swing in that good, you end up scoring well, and then you just I can't really explain it, but but uh you keep playing well week in and week out or scoring well, you you have a very calm attitude, and even if you hit a couple of bad shots, you don't react. And uh if you haven't played well in a long time, you it's easy to get frustrated and react, and and then you don't have any confidence. Playing professional golf, it's all about confidence, really. To get on a roll, get confidence going, and and and and be able to perform. And uh it's tough to really get that confidence. Yeah, and once you get that confidence, you've got to try to roll with it. And it could last a long time, it could last a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting. And for you, it certainly lasted uh a solid five years.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm sure there were some ups and downs, but I I I I played well for the most part, you know, how golf goes. Nobody you can't master this game. It's it's always different every day. And uh but but I I did play consistently through those years. And um, you know, if you look at a 20-year career, you're gonna have stints like that, I think. Uh it's kind of like the season, really. Uh I tell people uh a PJ tour season is made out made up of five good tournaments. Uh it's how good you are in those five tournaments that make your whole season. So you could you could look at a career, it's probably made up of five years. In a 20-year career is how good you are in those five years. And I was lucky enough to to win a few times in those five years.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it doesn't seem like you were ever in a slump when you were playing on tour.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I was at the end. I couldn't play. I was terrible at the end. And but I think that was more my hip than uh than I knew. I didn't realize I had a torn laybin on both hips and impingement in both hips. And I I just thought I was getting old and and and and couldn't move like I like I used to. And uh I didn't realize until after I lost my card my my hips were really bad.

SPEAKER_01:

Carl, was that golf related?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the doctor said it could be. It happens to a lot of you know wear and tear, but I it could have been hereditary too. But I would think it's probably from hitting balls. Uh a lot of golfers get get the torn labrums from a rotary rotary sport like that. And just repetition. And uh once I had the surgery, it took about a year and a half until I really had pain after I lost my card. And then I waited about a year, and then I had the surgery, and it's about a year recovery. And after that, I I I was like, man, I wish I knew this. I could I would have had the had the surgery done sooner.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Carl, you talk about practice. What was your practice regime like when you were playing? Were you a ball beater or did you prefer to be on the course?

SPEAKER_02:

I wasn't a I wasn't a ball beater, but uh I did practice a lot. Well, I touched the ball a lot. I I I used to um I used to really like to play a lot of tournaments, a lot of events in a row. I felt like my game got better the more I played versus the more I practiced. So I still practiced my chipping, bunker shot, and putting a lot, but I didn't I wasn't a big ball beater. I almost felt like my game could get worse sometimes hitting a lot of balls because you end up trying some different stuff versus when you play. And um when you play, you just you know, you have to hit the right shot. So my I felt like my game got better the more I played. So I'd like to play a lot of tournaments because I I I didn't mind playing uh playing a lot of golf.

SPEAKER_00:

So you you practice on the golf course essentially.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. That's that's how yeah, yeah. Um like to play and uh the best practice out there is to if you go out on your own and practice on the golf course versus the range. Because the range gives you a false sense of security. You've got this wide open space, you got multiple balls, but a great way to practice is to is to practice on the golf ball course and just go out and hit two, three different shots with different clubs and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I often tell my uh college players, uh high-level amateur players, if you're good, just get out there with one ball and compete against each other.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'll tell you a great way to practice to learn how to hit different shots is to play around the golf and be you gotta be very honest with yourself. If you hit it down the middle on one and it's a six-iron, you're gonna say, All right, on the front nine, instead of a six iron, I'm gonna hit one more, so a five-iron to learn the smooth shot. And on the back nine, I'm gonna hit one less to learn the to drive the ball in there. And it's a great way to practice to learn the different shots. But you gotta be honest with you. You never hit a stock shot, always, you know, on the front nine, you take one more club, on the back nine, you take one less, and then you kind of learn how to hit the shots under the under pressure versus anybody can do it on the range. It's better just to put it on the golf course.

SPEAKER_00:

That's great advice because most of us never ever hit a full shot on the golf course. We are oftentimes always in between yardages. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think some some one of my players told me when he shot a 61 to Monday into uh the uh Shriners open. He said most of his approach shots were full swings.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that happens. You know, it's nice when that happens. Um we get lucky with the right yardages and get the right clubs, but most of the time you're riding between clubs, or uh so it you gotta learn how to hit their shots.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think people are so enamored with technique, how the swing looks like that they neglect to practice their skills, how to take some speed off, how to take some loft off, or add some loft back, add some spin. I think that part of the game is not really thought about these days.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, technique's great, but you know, you you get to the last four or five holes and uh under the gun leading the PJ Tour event, it's uh it's all um technique goes out the window, I think. It's all natural ability and you you kind of just have to react.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the way I write what I interrupted you.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, no problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Back in the day, did you use much statistics?

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, no. They started doing that towards the end of my career, but I'm very old school. I don't even have a track man. Um I'm complete opposite, but there were some guys doing stats um when I was to when I was playing. It was kind of a new thing. I would think everybody's probably doing it now. Uh I I just go by my eyes on the ball flight. I can tell if a driver fits me or not by my by looking at the flight of the driver and all that stuff. But the problem is with trackman, I think, is you swing slightly different on the range versus you do on the golf course. So you build a driver on the range to fly perfect, but then you take it on the golf course, and you always you always seem to hit down on it a little bit more on the golf course than you do on the on the drive range because there's you're freed up on the driver range, it's easy, you know, you got plenty of balls. There's no you know, there's no um penalty on the on the driving range. And uh and so your swing changes a little bit, so you you always have to adapt on the golf course. So you can build a perfect club on track man with I mean on the on the ranch with track man, but uh you swing, everybody's swing changes a little bit as soon as they go to the first team.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, it's quite amazing in the I suppose in the modern era. I call I call it the modern era post-2007 because that was when the first uh iPhone was released. You could still you still won five PGA tour events with an old school approach.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, there's a lot of guys. There's a there's probably 50-50. There's a lot of guys on tour that are very stats-oriented, technique oriented, but there's still a lot of natural players. So I think it's probably even it's probably 60-40 now or something, but there's still quite a few natural players.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess with the amount of money that people are playing for these days, every little edge helps.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean it's really changed here in the last three, four years. Um and um I think it would if I if I came along now, I'd probably be approaching a whole lot different. It's just the way I was brought up and and all that. I'd probably be more stat oriented and swing concerns.

SPEAKER_00:

People fail to grasp how good you guys are. Could you share with our listeners what was your first official handicap?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh man, well, it would have been uh I guess we would have started at 36 or something, but I think I was scratched by the time I was 14, I think, or something like that.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's kind of the benchmark I use. Uh Greg Norman, for example, turned scratch in within 1415. Within two years of him picking up a golf club.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I often tell people if you're not scratched by 15, 16, it's gonna be really difficult for you to make it on tour. Because that seems to be the benchmark.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, everybody's different. There's always exceptions, but uh yeah, you especially nowadays, all these kids are coming out very good, young. Uh back in our day, yeah. If you yeah, if you weren't scratched by 15 and 16, you were behind the eight ball. But they're they're they're all always the late developers.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like Larry Nelson, right? He picked up golf only after his uh military service, still one major. And uh, as you see, exception rather than the norm.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Calvin Pete, too. Cal Pete picked it up late.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, those are very, very exceptions, very, very rare exceptions.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, you can say uh Gary Woodland, uh, he played basketball for Kansas, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's right. You know, when you're out on tour, there is no lack of uh well-meaning instructors willing to offer advice for free. How difficult was it to ignore advice on your golf swing?

SPEAKER_02:

No, it wasn't that difficult, really. Um, I got a pretty strong personality, so it was fine. But I mean, uh that's all you I always listen, I always look, and I try to just see what what what I what I try to break it down myself. But uh no, no, don't get me wrong. There's always people pushing try this club. Can I help you with this swing? Or so you just have to be say, but you know, be polite, say no, no, thank you. But uh thanks, thanks for thinking of me. And all that so it's it wasn't very difficult.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you ever make a wrong move in the sense that you're like, yeah, sure, I'll listen to you, and then kind of knock you off your your path.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think you always want to you always try stuff and see if you can get better, and sometimes you get worse. Yeah, yeah, I think that's just human nature. Uh everybody's probably done that to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00:

So you never ever had a permanent coach on tour? Is that correct? No, no, never. What about your what about your caddy?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I had I've had a few different caddies, but I had one one uh Grant Barry caddy for me for 13 13 years. So I had a lot of success with him, and uh he was a great caddy. He was the first great caddy I had, and uh he really helped me. He he he caddy a long time and uh he'd been around the game. So he he really did uh help me a lot with with certain things, helping me out with just little stuff, uh uh off the course stuff to help help me play better.

SPEAKER_00:

And and what goes into a great caddy?

SPEAKER_02:

Personality. Obviously, you gotta know you gotta know the game. You don't know that you don't necessarily have to be a good player, but you have to have a good feel for the game and and personality and and and really uh gel with your player and and uh but definitely have a great feel for the game and and and just understand what what what that player needs at the right time. He knew kind of knew when to speak and when not to speak. So and he had a great feel for the game. He wasn't that great of a player. He was decent, but but he had a great feel for how I was feeling. I tended to under the pressure, I hit a hit my arms longer, and he would he would know that exactly. And he would care he would kind of read into how I was I was doing. I think it would be a daily thing because you know every day you don't wake up feeling the same. Some days you're fast, some days you're slow, but so he would he would adapt very quickly to that and kind of read how I was doing or what kind of mood I was in or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's go a little bit talk about tour life. How good do you actually need to be to make a living on tour? And what are the drivers of success on tour?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you need to bring it every day um or every week. It's it's because it's very competitive. Uh but I like that challenge. I want I like competing. Uh you just have to be consistent every week. Uh play well every week and and grind it out. It's a grind. Even when I was playing great, the years I played great, it was always, it never came easy. It was always a grind, but uh, I enjoyed that challenge. You gotta enjoy the challenge every day. You gotta, you know, if you have a bad day, uh you gotta try to forget about it and then look for the positives for the next day and get up with a you just gotta get get up with a positive attitude and and really grind it out every day. And uh it's not for everybody, but I enjoyed that, I enjoyed that challenge.

SPEAKER_00:

What would you say is the key skill on tour?

SPEAKER_02:

To stay on tour.

SPEAKER_00:

Is it driving approach shots?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you gotta drive it good. If you if you can't drive it good, you're you're done. You toast. You gotta drive it fairly long and straight. You can't make a living from the rough unless you're very long. Um, I think ball striking is the key to longevity on on the PJ tour. Um, but but if you don't drive it good, you're dead. It's just so hard to score from the rough. And uh obviously you gotta do everything well, but you gotta put the ball in play and then uh go from there. Um I don't care how good you putt, if you're not putting it in play uh off the T. Uh you can hang in there for a little bit, but but over a long, long period of time, you gotta drive it straight, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would, you know, I want to comment on that and just say that that's been a massive difference in Rory's game the last couple of years. He's driven it better. He's driven it much better. And when he when he starts mapping it, then bye-bye Rory for a while. But just to add to what you were saying, Carl, and and and and speaking of driving it well, I want to segue into equipment. How particular were you about your equipment? And how particular are you now?

SPEAKER_02:

No, not very particular. Um I didn't even know I didn't even know what what what shafts I had half the time. I would just try stuff, and if it worked, I would use it. I wouldn't really care what it was. Uh when I was I was with Nike for 13 years, and they used to kind of laugh how how lax I was with that. But um I would just try stuff, and if I if if I saw the right ball flight, I would play it. And uh I always get asked in ProMs what shafts are you playing, and I always have to look at it. Still, I have to look at it and be like, oh, this one's uh whatever it is, dynamic gold S300 light or something. I always liked the light shaft. Uh I was my tendency was to hit it low, so I always built my clubs to uh go up and there.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting. And you were more of a blair, weren't you?

SPEAKER_02:

Well I played a mixed set, blades in the in the in the short irons, and then uh I was always a low hitter with the long irons, always trying to go with some uh some some clubs that helped to get it up in there with the look with the long irons. But I was never very technical with that stuff. And I if I liked like I played the same grind on my 60 for like 15 years. And um, so if I liked something, I never changed really. But now now it's a little different. There's there's a lot, I mean, the equipment is so good now, you can really dial it in, which which is great.

SPEAKER_00:

What what's in your back these days?

SPEAKER_02:

Well now I I can actually play whatever I want. So I have tightless wedges, strict on irons, I've got a tailor made five wood, a tightless three wood, and a tightless driver.

SPEAKER_00:

Your your driver setup back in the day was very unique. It was longer, lighter, and had more loft than what the typical amateur golfer had.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so I've always had a lot of loft on my driver because I got a lot of shaft cleaning at impact, so I need loft. And then I went to the longer shaft. I went to 46 and a half. Now I'm down to 46 because that's The legal limit, but I always felt like I had to help the ball up in the air with my driver. And then I tried the longer shaft, which gave me more speed and a little bit more spin. So I didn't have to help it up in the air. And um I actually became a much straighter driver when I went to the longer shaft. Me and Graham McDowell were the first ones to do that like in 2010. Now and and then obviously they they could you can only go 46 inches now, but I still have 46 inches.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting you mentioned Graham McDowell. Like yourself, he's got plenty of shaft lean at impact.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah, so he probably went to the longer shaft too to give him maybe a little bit more spin to keep the ball in the air longer.

SPEAKER_00:

And when would you say your shaft lean came from growing up in Sweden and North Carolina and England even?

SPEAKER_02:

I would I would say came from you know playing a ballada ball early on in my when I still first started playing, and and back then you had to trap everything to get you know to get a little oomph on the you know, you didn't want to come in too shallow because the if you came in too shallow the ball would go straight up in the air and just spin. So I I like to trap everything off my back foot and drive it in low. And then that's kind of how we played with balladto balls. Now you don't you don't really want to do that, you want to come in more shallow because these balls don't spin anymore.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, actually, I actually think I would have been a better player if um we would have kept playing balladto balls. But but who knows?

SPEAKER_02:

Who knows?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, hey Carl, speaking of balls, do you have an opinion on this on this proposed rollback?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, no, not really. I can't I I feel like nobody really talks about that anymore, but I think it's coming soon. And um in year 27. I don't really know much much about it. Uh I don't know and I really don't know how they're gonna do it. I don't quite understand how they're gonna take a percentage off the ball, but I guess I guess they've done this. And um I guess uh we'll just have to deal with it when it comes when it comes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you heard anything about that, Justin? From any of your players?

SPEAKER_00:

No. Uh no. I it what Carl said resonates with me, not really heard about it. Yeah, not many people talk about it. Yeah, it's I think it's gonna be like, you know what, we'll deal with it when it comes. I think I do think that that probably is not the the way to deal with an increase in in distance. I think the best way to curb it is just to reduce the length of the key that one can use on on uh 12. That's it. You have a short key, you're not gonna have a high launch. That's it. And I think that probably is the easiest way around this issue. If you want to curb distance. Sure, there are monsters like Cameron Champ, uh Brooks Kapka who already hit down on the ball and still carry the ball past 300 yards. But that's gonna be the exception rather than the norm. Yeah, or you're short T, I think you're gonna kick off easily 20 yards just because of the spin laugh that's gonna be applied to the ball.

SPEAKER_02:

Or just make the ball a little spinnier. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But I don't know, I don't know how you do that. But the T thing well, that would if you T it low, the ball kind of spins more anyway, and if you T it high, it spins less.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think I think these days it's all about just smashing the ball high up in the air with low spin. That seems to be what the longest drivers are doing. If you look at uh trackman foresight thing studies. And I think if we can prevent that from happening off the tea, then it's a it's a really elegant solution for the governing bodies and the manufacturers who don't need to retool their ball formulation.

SPEAKER_02:

I know, but there's always ways around it. You could kick up a grass tee and then tee up the little tee. So I don't know how you stop that. You know, I mean, uh Yeah, I like the conversation.

SPEAKER_01:

But you know what's interesting though to add to Carl's point, Justin, that if if if elite play only has a specific T height, then you you know a lot of players are going to be asking titleist and whoever for spinnier balls. So, you know, the two might go hand in hand, hand in hand if anybody from the USGA is listening.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but the the issue is that with a short T, it's it's very difficult to get a positive angle of attack on with the driver and a high launch. So your spin loss characteristics will change.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I can't believe how far some of these guys hit it now. It's crazy. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So speaking of crazy with these guys, you said that you're gonna make a comeback on the champions tour in a year and a half. How are you preparing for it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm actually well, I'm obviously playing a lot of golf at home, but I'm gonna play uh on the Corn Ferry coming up uh next uh season to get ready. Uh they have two exemptions out on the Corn Ferry for former uh PJ tour players that are 48 and 49 year olds. Okay. So I'm gonna go out and play a few of those too. I I I I need to play some competitive golf to get back into that swing of things. And uh I'm gonna be like a dinosaur out there compared to those young guys. But uh I'm not gonna play a full schedule, but I'm gonna play uh some events to to try to get my competitive juices back and um leading up to the once I turn 50 for the champions tour.

SPEAKER_00:

What do you think you're lacking now? You clearly are not lacking in war experience.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I just need to get back in competition, and uh, you know, I can do it at home. I'm playing great at home. I just need to take that on the road, which is different. But if you can't do it at home, you can't do it on the road. So I'm I'm playing well at home, which is nice, but I just need to get get my feet wet and start playing some competition and uh and uh hopefully I can uh have some decent results doing doing that doing that. Yeah, just get get get just get back in the grind of traveling, staying in a hotel, playing playing you know, serious golf and all that. So I I I'm gonna, you know, it'll take a little while, but I'm I'm kind of looking forward to to doing that again.

SPEAKER_01:

What are you doing for your what are you doing for your fitness?

SPEAKER_02:

Not much, but uh I need to I need to lose a few pounds and uh I I you know I'm not gonna do anything crazy because uh then my body will probably shut down. But I I I need to start. I I walk, I have fortunately my my course I play, I have caddies, so I walk every day when I play, and uh I just need to get on treadmill once in a while and uh and then I kind of watch what I eat a little bit. Watch what I eat and drink.

SPEAKER_00:

Love it. Hey, you said you play a lot at home. Like what kind of rounds are these? Are these casual rounds or do you do you bet against some guy? No, I always have a game.

SPEAKER_02:

So what I do is uh I like to compete. Obviously, I'm I don't have any other pros to play with, but all my member friends, I all start in like I got one guy, I start 11 up and we play even. I got one guy I start eight up, one guy starts six up, and uh what I do is if if I win, he gets one more the next time, and if he wins, they get one less the next time. So I compete with all the guys I play with. There's no strokes. We play even, but some guys start ten up, some guys start eight up, and we play even from there. It's a good way of doing it. And and the guys have a lot of fun with it.

SPEAKER_00:

So what's the tally like? Have they ever taken money off you?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah, yeah. You start somebody 11 up, you better bring it. If you don't bring in the first eight, nine holes, you're done. So it just goes back and forth. It's kind of dead money. You just you might get a few bucks up, but it keeps going the other way.

SPEAKER_00:

But does it stimulate your nerves?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, not really, but it's it's not no, that's that's why I'm gonna go play on the on the corn ferry to try to get get ready. Real tournament golf, you know. You you can never simulate real tournament golf. Uh I don't care if you put hundred thousand, like you and me play for a hundred thousand dollars. It's not the same pressure as uh playing a tour event with with three holes to go to to win a tournament. But but you can simulate a little bit, but it's not it's not the same. It's so it's so hard to simulate.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So talk about talk about simulating toil pressure. You played with the biggest names ever. How did you ever get to the place where you could deal with that sort of pressure and I suppose anxiety?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it just becomes it becomes second nature, but it but the first few times you get in contention and you play with a big name, yeah, you're nervous. You're nervous, you might not handle it great, but then the next time you get up there, you feel a little bit more calm. It's just it just takes time. And uh look, even if you've been on tour for 16 years, sometimes you handle the pressure great and sometimes you don't. But uh it's it's kind of weird. Um sometimes you feel really nervy, edgy, and some some weeks you don't. Uh but the more you do it and the more you put yourself in that position, the more comfortable you are. You're never really that comfortable, but you have to you sort of have to learn to to be comfortable when you're uncomfortable, if that makes sense. And and the more you get into that situation, the easier it becomes. But it it's uh it's always nerve-wracking. But uh it's just part if you want to play professional golf, you you've got to get used to playing under under nerves. Uh you just have to deal with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh I love that. I love that comment. Um, being comfortable while being uncomfortable. That's power, that's a powerful one.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and and uh some some weeks you you can handle that and some weeks you can't. I think everybody's like that. And uh but the more you do it, the more you more used to it you get.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you talk about your your injury at the till end of your career. It was misdiagnosed.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I had a well, I had a wrist injury, and uh I think that changed my grip a lot. And then I had my my my hip, my hips, my hips were the really, I didn't know it at the time, and that would just gradually get worse and worse every year. And I didn't realize it because uh it would just get a little bit worse one year and then a little bit worse. And then uh but I couldn't turn, and my swing, my swing actually works on rotation through the ball. I have to really rotate my hips, clear out the way, and I just couldn't do that. And I I've always been a pretty good driver of the Wild Ball. And towards the end of my career, I was I was driving it terribly. I was hitting it way right, so then I'd get scared of hitting it way right, so I'd hit it left, and then I just couldn't play like that. And uh Yeah, I lost my card. Uh I just thought I was getting old and wasn't any good anymore. And then uh I realized it was my hips, and uh once I had my hips done, um it was kind of too late to do a comeback. I wanted to stay home and raise my kids and uh and and and do that, and then I I've always looked forward to being 50 and I want to make a real run at at the champions tour and and play out there for a long time. So yeah, I feel good. I've got my hips fixed and uh my wrist uh kind of healed itself, so I I feel I feel good. Knock on wood. Hopefully everything holds up.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you talk about having two kids, right? Um what was it like traveling on tour when they were with you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, my kids, my kids traveled nearly every week. Uh since they were six weeks old, they've been on the road. So me and my wife, we we raised two kids in hotel rooms and and and airplanes. And uh yeah, there were some wild times for sure doing that. But it was also we look back at that now, and there were great times too. Uh yeah, we did uh you know on the road and stuff like that. It was it was uh my wife was uh she was a saint. She she she she organized everything. All I had to do was play golf, and uh she was fantastic. She she organized uh the kids, the travel, the whole, the whole thing. And uh I owe a lot to her. She was she was great.

SPEAKER_00:

And your wife is Swedish, also, if I recall.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, no, she's American.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. So we met in college and um we've we've uh we've been uh together for 25 years.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Very nice. That's great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, these are some of the stories and the things that most people don't know because they look at you know, that your your normal person is is watching you guys on TV, Carl, and they have no idea of you're raising a family on the road, you're potty training on the road, you're on the road a lot. And uh, you know, there's this sort of uh idea that it's so glamorous out there, and the life of a tour pro is filled with luxury and you know, all this and that. But uh some of that may be true.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Um there's always there's glamorous parts to it, but you know, we always enjoyed it when we could do laundry at the hotel or we rented a condo that had, you know, little stuff like being able to do laundry on the road, or maybe have a I remember Tampa, we always stayed on site and the and the condos had a kitchen. We were able to cook and you know, cook at home and stuff like that. So little stuff like that was was huge when you're on the road. But uh yeah, that was the definitely, you know, traveling 30 30 weeks a year with with little kids was was tough, but it's another thing. You just get used to it. And uh if you want to do this for a living, that's what you have to do. And I wanted my family with me. And uh, you know, it for the most part it was great, but there was definitely a few few times where it was uh it was tough.

SPEAKER_00:

What what was it like uh educating your kids on the road? Well, they traveled at a PGA tour at some kind of child care center.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they have they have child care. The childcare is fantastic. It runs from uh Wednesday through Sunday every week, and I think it goes from age zero or six, six, seven weeks until I think 13 is the oldest she can be, 12, 13. And uh my kids loved it. They they uh had great child care. It's the same girls every week that travel. They would have um you know, they would have field trips with the kids every week. And uh yeah, they they had a they had a really, really cool upbringing. And and my kids are still, my oldest is still friends with uh several kids that she went to daycare with on the PGA tour that they kind of keep in touch with uh you know with the with all the you know Instagram, Facebook, and uh and stuff like that. So golf? No, no, well, they play golf, but then they're not really it, no, it's not a huge part of their lives. Uh my daughter's at Old Miss, she's a junior at Old Miss, and my son is a uh senior in high school, and uh he's actually a uh he likes the outdoors. He's a fisherman and uh hunter.

SPEAKER_00:

Do they know how famous dad was?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I wasn't that famous, but uh no, I don't think they they don't really care to be honest with you, but they were kind of young uh at that time too. Sometimes they they look back at some other stuff, and but but I I got a great story actually from my son. Uh he was when I won Hilton Head, but a month before he was asking me, you know, when I was gonna win again. He was only about five, six years old. And uh he goes, Dad, you don't win a lot, do you? And I said, I was trying to explain to him, golf it's hard to win, and people don't win that lot much. But uh, you know, I was gonna try to win. And I finally won Hilton Head about a month and a month and a half later. And I was driving home, and uh I was like, man, I can't wait to get home and show Chase my trophy. And then the next morning I got up and I told him I'd won, and Chase picks up this train and goes, Dad, check this train out. He could care less about the golf, you know. So that was that was funny.

SPEAKER_00:

And and that's what really makes it all all worthwhile, right? It's family. We focus so much on golf, and then what what really makes us excited when we come home to our family is uh little things like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, golf is important. It's just what I did for so many years, it was my job. And uh sometimes it was hard to to leave work work from home, but uh obviously, yeah, yeah, family comes first, and then obviously your occupation. But it's sometimes it's difficult to to to do uh both well. You gotta kind of learn how to how to separate the two, but uh I think everybody sometimes forgets about that, and uh it's hard to do hard to do.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I I got a lighter question for you, Pearl. Yeah, who who's the funniest the funniest dude you've ever played with out there? Who's the funniest guy on tour?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh probably my good friend Tim Heron. If you're lumpy. Yeah, yeah. So I used to play with uh Jason Bone, George McNeil, Tom Gillis, and Tim Heron every week on Tuesdays. We played every Tuesday. We had a bit of a legendary Tuesday game. Everybody wanted to get in on it, but nobody we didn't allow everybody else to get in on it.

SPEAKER_01:

Can can you divulge the stakes?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we didn't play for that much money, but we did have we always had a two-on-two game, and then we had a$100 no bogey game. So if if if you didn't make a bogey on Tuesday, everybody had to pay uh$100, but we had a caveat in there. We had one time if you had a putt for par and you didn't make it, your caddy could come in and re-hit the putt. And if he made it, you were back in the game.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

That's pretty good. Yeah, yeah. And my caddy had the worst Yep you've ever seen. He didn't make that many putts, but but uh it was a fun game. The caddies liked it because you know they'd they would make it once in a while and they would take somebody back in there. So it probably happened four or five times a year. Somebody went no bogey on Tuesday, and everybody had to give them a hundred bucks, but it was it was good.

SPEAKER_01:

That's that's pretty solid. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

We had a lot of fun on Tuesdays. We weren't really too serious. We we kind of we were light-hearted people and we we had a good time. So we were serious on Thursday, but on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday we had a good time.

SPEAKER_00:

You still hang out with any PGA tour pro as you approach uh your time on the champions tour?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, well, I don't hang out because we all live in different places, but I still keep in touch. I speak to Jason Bone nearly every day. I actually saw George McNeil last week down in Florida, and uh yeah, we text and call each other.

SPEAKER_02:

We're uh you know, those are my best friends, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, your former co-workers.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Oh great friends, really. You know, everybody knows everybody on the PGA tour, but everybody has their little groups, and that that was my little group, and uh yeah, we're still good friends to this day.

SPEAKER_01:

Carl, okay. Yeah, oh no, go ahead, Justin. Well, I was just gonna ask, you know, there's we we do have uh some young, very good players, Carl, that that listen to the pod. And uh I I've had a couple of message messages where if we ever get somebody like you on, uh, what would be your advice to them if their goal and their dream is to play on the PGA tour? What advice would you give?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you just gotta work hard, you know, dedicate your dedicate everything to golf. I mean, um practice, play, practice every day, try to do try to do something with golf every day. And um I would say play more than you practice because you you've got to you know playing is the ultimate, you know, you can practice all you want, but you've got to be able to score. Scoring is where I'm getting at. That's that's how you become a PJ tour player, is learn how to score. Learn how to, even when you're not playing great, you gotta somehow shoot even par, even when you're playing bad. So just figure out your game, your ability, what you're good at, what you're not good at, and then be honest with yourself. When you have a shot, you can be like, well, I'm not very good at this shot, so I should probably lay up here and then try to make Bertie that way instead of just figure out what you're good at and what you're not that good at. And when it comes to playing the game, be honest with yourself and say, play to your strengths and try to learn how to score the best way you do it, not the best way Roy McElroy does it or Tiger Woods. Just figure out what makes you better and figure out do I get better by practicing eight hours a day, or do I get better by playing? Figure out how you make yourself good somehow. If that if that makes sense. But you gotta you gotta you gotta really eat, sleep, and shed the game, really, to be honest with you. You gotta be fully committed and um and you gotta be selfish if you want to make it. You can ask my wife. She says I'm very selfish.

SPEAKER_00:

Selfish, but a little bit quite a bit of common books.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you gotta you gotta believe in yourself, you know. I've always believed in myself. You gotta back yourself if you want to do it. Um you gotta really believe you you can do it and uh and tell yourself. I'm I'm I'm big into positive talking to myself. Like when I was in contention playing, I would always I was always always tell myself, you know, I could do this, and I can't keep telling myself under my breath, like it's not gonna be easy, and you can do this, you got this, you know. So I I think self-promotion is is huge.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's quite the opposite of of what we hear sometimes. You know, a lot of guys are B rating themselves, they're calling themselves a dumbass, and you know, whatever. And uh that's that's not gonna bode well ever.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I don't think so. You gotta you gotta be really positive and and and really you know forceful of yourself, tell yourself this is not gonna be easy. But if it I always just say this is not gonna be easy, if it was easy, everybody would do it. It's gonna be hard, but you can do it. You know, yeah, I would really pep myself up.

SPEAKER_01:

That's well said. Justin, any closing questions for Jedi.

SPEAKER_00:

The the last last bit we could talk about would be the majors. You've had strong performances in the majors 2012 PGA championship. I think you finished like tight third.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, I never really had a great chance to win one, but I top ten all the majors except for Augusta. Um, but uh I never never really had a great chance of winning one. The 2012 PGA, I played with Rory in the last group on Sunday, but he ended up winning by eight, so it wasn't even that close. Um I actually got a two-shot penalty on the first hole for hitting a leaf. Um I was in a hazard and my club touched a little leaf. It was a kind of a dry hazard. Um and uh I didn't realize I did it. The club going back hit a hit a loose impediment, and uh I hit it on the green. I had no clue. I I did it, and a rules official came up and said, I think you might have hit a leaf. And I was like, I got no clue. But uh they were like later on they checked on uh slowed it down and checked on TV and I scraped this little leaf going back that was embedded in the grass, and uh I would have finished second on my own instead of third, and and uh it only cost me half a billion bucks, so it wasn't that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm glad they changed that rule. Gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Which which uh tournament or which major do you think you had you would have had the greatest success with? You mentioned Augusta, I guess that doesn't really matter. Yeah, I felt like Augusta.

SPEAKER_02:

I never played great at Augusta. I um I'm not sure if I was quite long enough to really compete there on a consistent basis. I would say US Open or or the or the or the or the or the British Open. But I but I never really had a chance at any of those. But uh if my game was on, maybe maybe the US Open, because I I I when I got going with the driver, I was pretty straight there for a while. So but um Augusta, I always I never had my game at any any of the masters, but uh I wasn't quite long enough. I mean I was long, but you need to be to really have a good chance you need to be really long, or you need to do something very special like Zach Johnson did with his wedge game and all that.

SPEAKER_00:

But uh but um speaking speaking of wedge game, how do you practice it?

SPEAKER_02:

It's these days by feeling yeah, by feel, like kind of like the clock clock system, I a little bit, but uh mostly by feel to be honest with you. Sometimes if I get like a 60 or 80, I I do a clock system, but if I get say 48, I just go by feel. I got 60, 80, 100 by like a clock, and uh anything else other than that, I go by feel.

unknown:

Cool.

SPEAKER_00:

Fair enough. Fair enough. That's all for for me, Jesse.

SPEAKER_01:

Carl, I hey pal, I really appreciate you coming on, you know. And and for those who are listening, Carl and I spent the day together together a couple couple weeks ago. He was in Pebble Beach, and uh I got to see his game up close and personal, and uh it looks awfully good, bro.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thanks. I enjoyed it. It was uh it was my first time playing Cyprus. It was uh it was uh fantastic. We had a great host and uh some great caddies. It was great, Jesse. I uh I really enjoyed it. Hopefully, um hopefully I can get back out there soon again.

SPEAKER_01:

We'd love to have you, pal. But uh uh Carl, I couldn't can't thank you enough for coming on.

SPEAKER_02:

Really appreciate your time. No problem. You got my number, just uh let's uh stay in touch. Indeed. All right, we'll be good. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01:

See you, Justin. Yeah, nice to meet you. Okay, bye, bye, bye.