Stop Chasing The Perfect Putting Stroke ! In Conversation With Bruce Rearick

We sit down with putting coach Bruce Rarick to make putting simpler by matching your setup and equipment to your natural motion instead of forcing a textbook stroke. We dig into nine putting profiles, why vision and ball position drive your roll, and how modern fitting and marketing can push golfers into the wrong putter.
• nine distinct putting profiles based on arc direction and arc size
• tilted arcs that still deliver a zero path at impact
• ball position set by eye location rather than feet
• why eye dominance influences head tilt and aim
• letting the player be the player instead of “correcting” everything
• putter design details that change strike including lie angle and sole shape
• blade vs mallet tradeoffs and the reality of mallet kick
• how weight and balance affect speed control and motion
• myths around forced eye position, minimal arc, grip rules, and “more forgiving”
• the line on the ball drill to test roll and centered contact
• practice that protects movement patterns while fixing setup and sequence
• launch, skid, and adapting to slow or wet greens
• why lab numbers on carpet do not equal real world fitting
• building rhythm, walking putts, and staying out of your head

The easiest way is just to look for Bruce Rearick on Substack and Instagram 

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello, and welcome once again to another edition of the Flaghunters Golf Podcast. My name is Jesse Perryman. Along with my co-host Justin Tang, we welcome you to another edition. This week we've got Burnt Edge Consulting Founder Bruce Rerick. This is the second time that Bruce has come on the podcast, and he is a world-renowned putting coach, a putting aficionado, knows just about everything there is to know about putting, about teaching it, the application of, and the execution that's going to help to benefit all of us to putt well, consistently, and to have it become one of our strengths. This isn't far-fetched. Bruce has a system or several systems in place to diagnose what your putting style is and to get you into that right methodology, both physical and mental, along with the equipment of putting. And we get into it in the main body of the podcast. So relax, sit back, and have an open mind and listen to one of the world's most foremost experts on putting. The man knows what he's talking about. I'll make sure to have all of the pertinent show notes, contact information in the show notes, excuse me. And uh I hope everyone has a great week. And putting should be a lot easier than we make it, folks. And Bruce is certainly one to help show us that exact way. Cheers, everyone, and have a fantastic week. Thanks for watching. Welcoming you to another edition uh with uh with my my partner Justin Tang, uh, instructor at the Hidden Castle Golf Club in Singapore. Uh, for those who are first-time listeners, and I'll make sure that all of his contact information is available via the show notes and in any of the socials. But uh today he's a returning guest. I had him on a few years ago when we first got started. His name is Bruce Rarick, a burnt edge consulting, one of the great putting coaches in in the United States and uh in and um and around. So, Bruce, welcome again. Thank you. Good to see you guys, Justin. Thanks, bud. Thanks, guys. Welcome back, Bruce. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

I was trying to remember how long ago was it? Like two, three years ago, something like that. Three years ago?

The Nine Putting Profiles Explained

SPEAKER_03 2:49

2020, 2024. Yeah. Not too long, but always good to have you back and talk about all things putting. Putting, yeah. Yeah, maybe to kick things off, could you just uh quickly refresh what are the putting's profiles? We our listeners.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah, uh number of years ago, I was part of a team that brought puttlab, science and motion potlab to the United States. And we started to collect some data, and then I had a I had a putt lab, one of the I was one of the first guys in the country to have one to use as an instruction. And we were taking it around to golf shows, and everybody that came to our resort, we asked, we would put them on the potlab, put them on just to get just to get strokes, you know, just get data and asking questions. Are you right eye dominant, left eye dominant, are you right-handed, left-handed, just trying to find some patterns. And after a while, we had collected quite a few strokes, as you can imagine. We'd do it, we'd do a golf show where we'd do six, seven hundred people on a putt lab in a day. We'd get them on there, they'd hit three putts, they'd go. And we had a neutrally balanced putter. Uh, what has now become low, you know, no torque. We had one that was even more simple than that. That just so there wasn't any putter influence. And we we we put that data, put it up, and started to look at the numbers. So we didn't look at the artwork, the screen that you get on Putt Lab. We just started looking at the numbers. And we were able to see nine distinct patterns. And so once we found those nine patterns, well, you go, okay, then the argument is all right, Bruce, so you got these nine patterns, but most of those people don't putt very well. So we went back and we compared that data to the tour data that we had collected. The still saw the nine. More, more proficient at it, obviously, but the basic strokes still look the same. And so what it said was not everybody takes it on an arc or straight back or straight through something. The arc tilts. Just like you would tilt an arc to hit a draw or a fade. Guys, players will do that when they put. And some of the best strokes of all time, in fact, I'd I feel confident in saying most of them did not follow a parallel arc to the target line. They were tilted right or left. Jack would cut it, Arnold would hook it, Crenshaw would hook it, Tiger would hook it, all coming a little bit inside. If you take that arc and you just tilde it, then you see this inside the down the line stroke that's still on plane, but it's on a tilted arc. And then we found that those profiles typically, if you swung inside down the line, you played the ball forward in your stance. And if the guys that played that would go straight back and then finish left and hold it, they'd play it back in their stance. So now the deep plane laws start to come into play. And so, like we play a wedge with an open stance, we still get a zero path when we hit it. Or we play a driver with a close stance and we still get a zero path when we hit it. So the path at impact was zero, but the the average the stroke direction was tilted. Right around the the math of it is about two degrees before we start seeing it flawed. Um, you can if you can get anywhere from zero to two degree tilt to the stroke plane, you can handle it no problem. When you get outside that, and there have been really great examples of being outside that, but then that that takes some some more manipulation, some more, you know. But that's basically the profiles. There's nine of them. Um we've been we've been talking about them now since 2006 or seven, I suppose. And it's held up. Nothing's changed. They're still there. I see them all the time. I get an example. Somebody will send an example. Bruce, I did this college division one player, and this is his stroke, and oh, yeah, that's a six, and you know. And uh, and I think the flaw, and I I don't I don't want to get on my soapbox too early, but the flaw is we try and correct it. Instead of letting the player be the player, we'll jump in there and say, no, no, you got a path problem, we got to fix it. Now all of a sudden it can't see the line. I mean, just everything has to be overhauled in the idea of having an optimal stroke. So we've got a lot of experiences now introducing the profiles to manufacturers and teachers and a lot of people, and you know, they all they all see the benefit of letting the player be the player as opposed to forcing them into a into an optimal, optimal move.

Online Profiling And Natural Tendencies

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Well, for this testing, is it possible to be tested online?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Tested online? Yeah, I do a I do a uh we've learned what it takes, what what the parameters are that create the stroke. Um and it's basically based on ball position, and then your your tendencies with your trail hand, shoulder alignment, you know, all those kind of, it's like a sliding scale. And you can, all right, this is you're a six. And and and we've we've tested it. So we've had guys go, all right, Bruce, you go ahead and profile them and then we'll measure them. I get tested all the time. And it it it every once in a while I'm off, but I'm not off by much. Because your posture and your and your physical makeup dominate where the putter's gonna go. For example, if you if you videotape, put a straight edge line on the ground, and then just put the camera everywhere, but so I can see the putter, and then swing the putter four or five times with your eyes closed. It's gonna, it's gonna, it might start where you've been trying to, but you'll just watch it drift to where your body wants it to go. You can't fight yourself. And and we've learned, you know, and then we learned that well, guys that play with a weak right hand, they have a tendency to go left if you're a right-handed player. Guys that play with a strong right hand, they have a tendency to go inside down the line. So that kind of fits our profiles. We've got we've got three different directions and three different sizes of arcs.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

So instead of changing your butting stroke, what you're saying is why not just find something that works with whatever you have.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

That's what all the good ones did.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

And that's what that's gonna be more congruent with your natural tendencies and your physical DNA.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Well, yeah, I mean, pick on Tiger, but we we saw Tiger Woods on Putt Lab pretty early, and he did not match what we can what was considered an optimal stroke. Yet he was having the best season that anybody ever had with a putter. I think it was 2006. Made a thousand inside six feet, you know, before he missed one. So, I mean, but he hooked it. He came from the inside, went down the line, and hooked it, and then changed his stroke over the years. I've seen it, and he's changed his stroke to try and be more straight. And I would contend that he doesn't putt as well as he did when he hooked it. Crenshaw, Crenshaw hooks it unbelievable. He takes it probably 30 degrees inside, and then just huge hooking move on it, and works for him.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Yeah. So I suppose you could say the same of a young Sergio Garcia when he first came out on tour. Yeah, I'm sure it's he drew every of his putt. And he kind of regretted uh going to a straighter arc.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, when we first when we first saw Sergio on Putt Lab, he um from a scoring standpoint of zero of finding zeros, he was as good as anybody we ever saw in that setting. But as soon as he got on the golf course, everything went in a tank on him. And I think it's justin what you just said, you know, that his natural move was to feel the hook. But then when he tried to make the optimal stroke, it all went in the tank on him. And and so I I think there's a lot to be said. Well, I can get right into it, but I last fall I worked with I do you guys familiar with Dr. Debbie Cruz? Yeah, yeah, Debbie is the mental coach. Yeah, and we put we put a couple players on on her um band focus band, focus band, and um when we got them in the right profile, the brain went quiet.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

That's so when we forced, and she, I know it's this is no test. I mean, this is just the first time we ever did it. And she looked at me and she called it core movement pattern. And she said, Bruce, what you're finding with the profile, we I think is a core movement pattern. Now, we haven't had a chance to take it to another level, but I as easily as it happened with those few things, the few times that we did it, I have no doubt that it's gonna hold up.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Oh, that's why kids put it. Just from what we've seen, you know. Yeah. That's why kids putt so well, right? They're they're not painted. Before we tell them how to do it, yeah. Yeah. Get your eyes over the line. Yeah, that's the that's it. Ball position left of center. We've got straight back, straight through, and all that.

Eye Dominance And Ball Position

SPEAKER_02 12:02

First thing we do when we get online is we we check the ball position based on your eyes, where your eyes are positioned, not based on where your feet are. So we'll take a we'll take a shot of the head, and then we'll go from down the line and face on, and we'll use the left eye as kind of a focal point. If you're that's that would be one point. You can be left of your left eye, you can be left of your forehead line, or you can be left outside your head. And then you might be back, you might be you might be tilted and ball back, and and and those guys are typically right eye dominant, and they're trying to get their right eye in a position to see it. So I have a real argument with people that tell me that eye dominance doesn't matter in putting. It it I uh I just can't see it. I can't see it. And as much as we've looked at it, I it always does. It always has an influence. And you guys, listen, you guys can see it. Every time you see somebody tilt their head, that's why they're tilting their head. They're trying to see that, but you're trying to get an accurate picture.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

They're trying to zero in with their dominant eye.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah, yeah. Or you know, but we've even had players uh uh Joe Tulon with the with Tulon putters. Joe tells me he's right eye dominant, but he swears when he putts, he's left eye dominant. Well, that's makes sense. You can train your left eye, you can train your left eye to do the job. And and there's uh I mean it just is the what I guess what the point I'm trying to make is there's no hard and fast rule. Is that when you're talking to a vision expert, they'll go through a whole litany of things to tell you, but that the last thing they'll tell you is everybody's different. Well, if everybody's different, we got to test. We gotta find a we got to find out how you see it. And and then once we find out how you see it, and we find out where we can put the ball where you're you feel like you're going in the right direction, then we can build a motor that fits that stroke, that ball position. We can figure out a way to hit that shot. Just like you would, you know, hit a hit a tee the ball down and play it back and hit a fade with a driver, you're gonna manufacture a move. Well, you can do the same thing with a putter, but we don't have to change it to change the shot. Now, a guy like I'm really rambling now, but a guy like Trevino did. Lee Lee had different different setups for different putts. Ball forward, hook it, ball back, cut it. He'd he'd play the Balsteros did it too.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

But he uh Trevino used the same uh but the most of his career.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

He uh the first part of my memory was an 8802.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah, 8802 style, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah, and then later on, he won he won um he won the PGA in Alabama with a with a ping that he had found in a barrel in Europe. Um I've got memories of him hitting that. Um I'm that's one of my one of my hobbies is I like to know putters that guys used. I'm pretty good at telling you what people used.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Um you have a white fang somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, Jack had a he belt ball to stroll in '66. He used the bullseye putter he got from Dean Beaman, painted white. Used it for one tournament, went back to the George Lowe. Arnold, you know, for all the putters that he tried, he had a he had an Iron Master, McGregor Ironmaster, that he welded and ground and welded and ground and welded and ground, and he used that thing for six years till it just ran out of metal. He he couldn't fix it anymore. So I think there's something to be said. One of the things that if uh for young players that are listening, whatever putter you use when you got started is probably the putter you're gonna do the best with as you get better. The big mistake for any parents that are listening out there, the biggest mistake I see is a youngster that starts out with a putter, maybe a blade, something, develops a stroke with that putter, and then mom or dad goes and buys the latest and greatest forgiving mallet, and everything changes. And they have to start over. And and so then I get a call and hey, he's really struggling. And I said, Well, what did he start with? And we, well, we had this bullseyed, you know, kids, U.S. kids blade putter. Well, that's a different feel, and you change the feel when you put that mallet in their hand. The lab guys are running into it. The lab guys are running into it because a lot of a lot of people are switching to the lab. So, not that the lab's not bad, uh that's bad for them, it's just there's a transition period when you go to the lab, and typically it was they came up short. They didn't have as much energy in the stroke because they reduced the rotation. So, anyway, I'm I'm really rambling.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

So that that's all great information. So, after you you've uh identified your profile, how long does it take to order the putter from you?

Putter Design And Lie Angle Reality

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Well, we we we have one of two things. I have a putter, we have six models that one that I a design that I wanted to mess with forever. One of the things we learned early on, I guess, can you guys see that?

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

One of the things that we learned early on is that you were way better off with a with a rounded sole than a flat sole. And the reason being that when on an uneven lines, the sweet spot doesn't move. If you take a flat putter and you and you go toe up, you lift the sweet spot up. But with this, with a round concave bottom like this, when you tilt it up, it just it just rotates, it just rotates around the center. So you do this thing like no matter what the ground conditions are, you've always got the center of the putter on the center of the ball.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

Great idea.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Well, that doesn't happen, that doesn't happen with flat, flat putters. And so the idea of getting the the lie angle is awkward because your feet relative to the ball are is rarely level. Rarely level. I mean, it won't be level even if you get um if you the ground conditions are soft and your feet sink a little bit. So we we do all this. Well, I gotta have 71 and a half, or I've got to have this or that. Well, that might work indoors, you know, on a flat surface, but once we get outside, you can't figure out why you miss it to the right a lot of times. Well, it's probably because you tilted that sweet spot. I don't have a conventional putter to show you, but you've tilted that sweet spot, and now you're striking the ball in a different position on the ball than the back of the ball, and you get this kind of kick. Mallet kick is what a lot of us call it. Where you're toe down with a mallet and it jumps right. Uh I saw um Tommy Fleetwood miss a couple putts this summer because he was toe down in impact.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

And pull down seems to work a lot to work very well for Steve Stricker.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah, but he used the blade. Okay. He used the blade, and that's the center of the center of mass in that blade was closer to the face, so you don't get the influence. But when you when you take a mallet, when the center of mass is back in the head, and then you tilt that, you've got a lot of force vectors going a lot of different directions. You don't get the strike. It's not as forgiving as we want to think it is with a mallet. Not as forgiving as we want to sell. That's for sure. Do you think you know? I spent some time with lab this last summer, and lab proves it that lie angle balance, when you don't have the lie angle right with your lab putter, it doesn't perform very well. It performs great when you've got the lie angle, you know, and you can swing it on that plane. But when you start switching it around, it it comes off funny. And and so, you know, that's why fitting, you know, the lab putter is excellent because they they don't they barely sell one unless you're fit to it. And the guys that get fit do great. Does that answer your question? Yeah, yeah, it does. That's interesting. Kind of went off on the anyway. Yeah, I mean it's it's complicated, but it's not. And so when you said about getting a putter, we we'll every year I go through, and I've never really made it public. I just do it for a few teachers that are clients, and I've done it for some retail spots, but I'll I'll match the I'll match the current season's putters to the profiles. I'll tell you, this is if I was if you're a profile one, these are the putters that are out right now that I would suggest you try. And a couple of times we've come close to a retailer going in and saying, All right, you're um you're a profile one, here's our suggestions. Try these first. And um, and just to to balance them, but now we're getting into the um we're getting into the no torque and all that. And so it's it's that changed everything from a fitting standpoint. But they still work with the profiles, right? You can um I I I've got I've got all the lab putters in the categories. Um I've done I've done some of the tiles, I do you know, it just certain ones work better than others. It just depends on the blade style. Like, for example, a lab, the big model, the DF2s and the DF3s are perform way better on some profiles than the link does on others. And you can imagine if if you're stand off the ball and play a flatter lie angle, you might want to consider swinging the link as opposed to a to the big mallet. The big mallet does better going upright. And it's it's it's it's pretty. True. Um, there's always exceptions, but we we like that recommendation. We feel good about making that recommendation. How's that for um? But so so yeah, so we we we've got favorite putters, we got designs that oh man, we really like that design for this pro for this profile, and we've been we make those suggestions to all our clients.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Well the sound that every insert makes is different and resonates differently with players.

Weight Balance And Speed Control

SPEAKER_02 22:35

The thing is, what I do, Justin, is I don't get I don't allow you to have a preference until we're done. You don't get to choose, you don't choose the putter by how it feels, you don't choose the putter by how it looks. You choose it by the weight and the balance and how it swings. And does it swing in harmony with you, or are you fighting it? And then once we find that hazel configuration, center of mass and the head, where does it need to be? Then you can start playing games with, oh, I like this insert, or I like this weight, or I like this distribution. One of the things from a weight standpoint is we need to know, we need to know how you move. If you're a connected chest rotator with not a lot of arm play or wrist play, if you're more, you know, the drill where guys take the alignment rods and run them up through the arms, under the armpits, and they you putt connected. Well, you're you're probably gonna be better off with something that's counterbalanced and and you move the center of gravity and of the putter up because we don't want a lot of head weight down there pulling on that mechanism, right? Because that when you get to the end of the backswing, then the head wants to keep moving and you've got to fight it. So you you move the you move the balance point of the putter up toward the hands, then it swings more in in sync. The uh old Odyssey putters that were um the bio, the the two material shaft, drawn a blank on the name of it, those were all back weighted so that the head was lighter, so that the guys that were connected core, we call it, they didn't they didn't feel that play in the head. Now, if you're a player that likes to use his hands and wrists and swing his arms, then you're probably gonna like a heavier head feel. So you're so we're we don't like to get real heavy, we like to move the balance point though. Okay. I've got I've got putters that weigh 510 grams, and some of them swing weight D7 and some of them swing weight C9. So, you know, just by the grip and how we how we move the weight. And um, you know, it's it's hard because if I had the resources, if I you know, if I had a you know the number of models that we needed, we can do a lot of things with putters that I don't get the opportunity to do very often because it just gets expensive. You know, if you're gonna if I gotta work on a putter for two months to get it right for you, you know, it's gonna take some time and some money. And it's done it to for me, it's just not as simple as this fits. Because it rarely does. Like you you mentioned weight. One of the the topic I've I've I read a lot of stuff on social media just to see what people are talking about. And this conversation about speed control is we're we're creating a lot of manufactured movements, but totally based on putters being too heavy or too light. So the common, the the current, the current trend or one of the current trends is a longer backswing and a shorter follow-through. Well, the reason that works is because the putter's too heavy to begin with. If it if we had the right weight, if we would go back to maybe a little lighter putter and allow the player to have an even distribution of backswing to forward swing, he wouldn't have to manufacture stop in the putter on purpose. I question anybody that comes to me and says, you have to do this at this point during the stroke. So when do I start? When do I finish? How do I think about when do I think about doing it? How do I all you have to practice? Well, you know, to force the follow-through to a certain length, I gotta think about it before it gets there. I've got to think about it before impact to do it. So I'm really not I'm really not gaining any any prowess, and I'm just I'm just making it more complicated. Yeah, I'm gonna get hammered after this one, boys. You're gonna come after me nine different directions. Well, I just you know, the point in my career where I can just sit and watch and just say, what's everybody talking about? Because I'm too old to change my mind now. So I just there's some stuff that just doesn't ring true. And you know, and I say, Well, I I just can't, you gotta show it to me because I can't see it. I can't see, you know, the theory come up with a good theory that sounds good, and but it in play, it doesn't, it doesn't play out.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

So you know, you've done so much testing, you've done so much research. What are the main myths that still are pervasive, even though you found that to be false?

SPEAKER_02 27:19

The biggest myth, well, two. One is that a forced eye position we talked about. That's that one's huge. I mean, we've we've got stories of guys literally hiring me to help them fix their putting stroke. And once we did the vision test, they dumb, okay, Bruce, that's all I needed. You got me where I want. The other one is that when when you when you allow yourself to swing the putter without any laws or rules, your arc, the arc of the putter is probably bigger than you think it should be. We've hammered this, we hammered this minimal rotation upright arc into everybody so much because that sold mallets. Last thing I want to do is have a big arc with a mallet because it'll twist on me. So if I'm if I'm trying to sell mallets, then I'm gonna sell you on the fact that I want the ball directly under your left eye, and I want you to swing it on a vertical plane. Well, mallet doesn't fit. Very few people that fits. And and we're seeing it now with with the change in putters, then you get the change. Like we're seeing a lot of players swinging uh some of these uh neutrally balanced mallets with a much bigger arc than they ever used before because they don't get the feedback, right? So they just let it swing. And it it's um it's it's really fun to watch. I've had any number of guys, I've got a uh some young guys in in Australia that do a lot using the nine profiles, and they're always giving me feedback. But one of the things that I'm seeing with them is they they go to the big arcs first instead of the small arcs because it seems to fit people quicker. And so that that's the one. The one that that there's a the other myth with I boy, this could uh try not to go on forever. That your grip has to be a certain way, that the putter shaft has to run up your forearms, that you have to have it in the lifelines. The um I think the next great debate that you're gonna see is do you have pressure down on the shaft with your thumbs, or do you have pressure up on the shaft with your fingers? You mentioned Steve Stricker. Steve Stricker pulled up with his fingers. He didn't push down with his thumb. But I saw Justin Rose in the U in a in a uh Instagram video the other day working on getting his pushing his hands down and putting the pressure down on the putter. Well, he's gone back to a conventionally weighted, you know, face balanced putter. And so, in order for him to modify that torque that he feels in his hands by pushing down on it, that stabilizes the putter. So the problem is that a lot of times pressure down with the thumbs will make you yippy. We've seen it for years. And so the the to putt with your thumbs off the shaft sometimes gives you a better feel of what you your your body wants to do. And doesn't steer the putter, it just lets it swing. Then your then your speed control comes back. And then the other, the the last one, the one I guess I've I'll get criticized for, but the idea that more forgiving is better than having a stroke that hits it in the middle of the face. And then because the putter's forgiving, you don't have to hit it in the middle of the face. Well, if you want to be average, that's fine. But if you're trying to make 20 footers for a living, you better, you better hit it consistently on the face. I saw Charlie Hall, the young lady from England, LPGA player. She they did a I saw an Instagram video of her where they she has to replace the insert on her Odyssey putter frequently because she just wears a spot right in the same spot. So about every six months she goes in and puts a new insert in because she just worn a spot on that thing. Well, that's what you're looking for in a stroke.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Well, it tells you how often she practices putter. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah. But the idea, well, and you've seen Tiger and Tiger's ability to hit it on spot. We've we've seen a lot of players that that was the strength. Dave Pels, rest in peace, David. He one of the first thing, one of the things he put in his first book was the thing that we see the most is that the better you are a putter, the more, the tighter your distribution of impact is on the face. So if you're trying to get good, that's the thing you want to do. And if you're trying to fit yourself in a putter, forget about my profiles. Find the putter that you can hit in the middle of the face the most often. I think what you'll find is that the putter that fits your profile allows you to do that. I think that's those probably there's a lot of myth. But uh, I think they're not really myths as much as it is. Everything will work. I've I very rarely listen to somebody that I say, oh yeah, that'll work. And I don't think it'll work for this guy, but it might work if for someone. And I never wanted to be, I never wanted to teach a percentage of the golf community. I wanted to have something for everybody, right? So if you're willing to take the dive with me, we'll find. We'll we'll we'll wade through the garbage and we'll find what works for you. Um the idea that the idea that putting's a two-handed operation, it's not. Most great putters just swing one and the other's on there to be pretty. You know, tiger's right-handed stroke. The guys that are the guys that work better with a single arm pendulum style stroke, they all went the long putters. They're not trying to, and then the ones that struggle sometimes are the ones that are trying to engage their shoulders with the single arm swing. Just gets too complicated. I hear myself saying all the time, ah, just swing that thing with your right hand. Don't worry about what your shoulders are doing. And um, you've already defined the plane because of the just because of the build of the putter. But yeah, it's um the other one. Oh, I got one more. Sorry. The shaft angle of the putter does not define the arc. As much as we want, we've got drills that'll tell you that it does. What defines the arc is how you move, and the putter head can move independently of the shaft. If everybody had, if everybody had, can you give me just one second, guys?

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah. Sorry. No problem.

Tour Players Resist Then Convert

SPEAKER_02 34:00

If everybody, if everybody putted on an arc that was defined by the shaft of the putter. So you guys have seen the the boards where you lay it on there and you try and keep it on the board, those, those kind of alignment. All right, that's what, 20 degrees? There's an 18-degree arc right there. Now, I promise you, if we went out on a tour and we talked to guys and said, you know, you got a you got a 70-degree putter there, it should be on this size arc. They go, well, that arc's way too big. So somewhere along the way, you're twisting the putter. So if I've if I've got my natural stroke swings on an 18-degree plane that would match the shaft, then in order for me to make it the arc less pronounced, I have to twist the putter shut in the back swing and twist it open in the follow-through. So I have to manipulate the face to create the arc. And I won't do it, but we you and I, we could sit here and have a beverage and talk about all the guys that are struggling with their putting on the tour that do that. They don't putt to their natural stroke lane.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

So I suppose you work with tour putters.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

What's their first reaction when they come to you get tested?

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Oh, most of the guys, most of the tour guys will fight me. They'll fight you. They'll fight me, yeah. Um, and I don't blame them. They're they're they're standing out there with everybody in the industry telling them what the right way to do it is, and then hear some guy in Indiana saying, nah, let's not do that. I don't blame them at all. But once they try it and they start to understand, I I'll I'll just I won't say a name, but my most recent conversation with a champions tour player was to that he couldn't, he was using a longer putter, and he could not get the putter to release, to swing, to finish. Everything felt blocked. And I said, Well, sure, it's because you can't, you know, you're just not finishing, you're just going quitting and flipping, right? Shoulder goes to there, hand goes like that. I said, Why don't you just open your stance? Open your shoulders and open your stance. So what I did was I moved him for our profile. Profile three is a cut, would be a cut. It looks like a cut, it's not, it's zero at the impact, but it it's tilted left. And I said, just open your stance and I'll send you a profile three, and you tell me how it feels. And he came back and said, That's the easy, that's the easy Bruce. My left side's out of the way, the putter just goes. I don't care where it finishes, I'm hitting it pretty solid from here. So there's a perfect example of him trying to be correct, but he couldn't finish his stroke. And and and especially with long putters, you're gonna do way better. If you're using a broom length, you're probably gonna feel better if you just open your stance a little bit. Because you you can't rotate, you're not gonna rotate your shoulders enough to get out of the way. So there's gonna your body's gonna interfere with the flow of the putter, and it's you're gonna get something like that. Well, I'll think of another one, but that's enough for this.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

Accelerate through the ball.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

That's yeah. Um, we've over in history, there's been the hitters and the swingers, right? And the swingers have an even acceleration through the ball, and the hitters just go up and they pop it, right? So for me, being a Palmer guy, for me to tell people that you can't hit it, can't accelerate into the ball and hit it, boy, he'd he'd slap me one for saying that, you know. So I've I've got to believe that it just depends on what your natural instincts are. Are your instincts to hit the ball or your instincts to swing the putter? And and then you get into are the path aware of your stroke or are you face aware of your stroke? The the path aware guys, what they'll do is if they miss a putt, they'll change their alignment. They'll if they miss a putt to the left, they'll come into a next putt more closed and they'll change their path. The face-aware guys, they'll change their grip. And they'll they'll they'll try and deliver the blow open or closed a little bit more, but they won't change their setup. So when you combine those things, um you find out what you are. And there's no right or wrong. There's no right or wrong. There's just popular and you know, easy to sell. What's popular is easier. People are more comfortable when they take a lesson when you tell them what's popular, not what might work for them. So that goes to what you're the guys on the tour. I I worked with a player, I think I probably mentioned him the first time we ever talked, but I worked with a player that won an event for the first time, uh, you know, a tour event for the first time in I think it was six or seven years, his first win, maybe more than that. And he fired, you know, he basically fired me that Tuesday because it was what we told him was so awkward. He was leaking oil on the back nine, he just barely hung on to win. And it, I didn't have a problem with it. Totally fair. I understand. You know, you're your thoughts are ingrained because you've been going to all these people and they're all telling you, you got to do this or you got to do this, or you got to do this, and you don't have to. And the only the only defense I had was you putting, you know, last week when you won, you putted more like your old self than you ever have you have in years. And you can you can you can teach, you can talk your way right into a mess if you're not careful putting. I think full swing, it's easier to make the change than putting, to be honest with you. Wow. I think you guys, Justin, you're working with a guy with his full swing, and you you explain what happens if they do certain things. Okay, I'm good. I can go, but it's so subtle with putting, it's it's and feel-oriented, it's really hard to change.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

I suppose it's much slower, right? So Fangmoto movement becomes more magnificent.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, yeah, and you're you're and it is so field-based because you are moving so slow, right? That and so that's why I've always contended that putter fit was important because you wanted you want if do I need to know where the toe is or not? You know, that's kind of the discussion with lab putters, is you don't have a sense of where the face is really because there's no sense and there's no torque in the putter. There's no feel of, but you know, with a with an 8802 or a uh answer or whatever, I have a sense of where that toe is, and if do I need that or not. So the guys that have succeeded were too face aware um with elabs. The guys that maybe, you know, go back to the you see some guys going back to blades now. I've seen a lot of it so far, and they're just going back, they're trying to find the face again. Where's the you know, I'm trying to deliver the blow and I want to know where Square is. Does that make sense?

unknown 41:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

I'm doing a lot of rambling, I apologize. I haven't done one of these in a while. Oh good. All kinds of information.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

How do we how do we use uh knowledge of our butting profiles and other setups in our practice? Let's say we haven't we haven't taken the plunge with you. How do we make our practice in butting better?

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Yeah, we we we've got two ways. You can you can get a mat, well putt. The people at Wellputt do my mats now, so I can get them all over the world. They've got distributors all over the world. You just you just reach out to Wellputt and you tell them, hey, I want Bruce's profile six or whatever it is. And um, but we don't use those mats like everybody uses them. We just use them as a check. Get on the mat, make sure your stroke's doing what's doing, now get away from it. And get away from the all the stuff that makes you that helps you do it. If you're doing it, fine. If not, work on the mat, build it, get that stroke built back up. But we never we never change the movement pattern, we always change the setup. If you can't make your profile work, you've changed your setup. You've changed the ball position, you've changed how you initiate your stroke, you've made some sort of physical change that's thrown you off base. Um, one of the things, like for example, I'll give you an example. I've seen a lot of players that practice this connected core rotation stroke, right? And they get late in the round, and the first thing they do is take it back with their hands. And they start taking it back with their hands, and their hands move first, and the shoulders don't, and now they're out of sync and the putter's out of position because their hands are leading the charge, and they don't have enough, they don't have a they don't have a reminder to say, well, make sure that I, you know, turn my chest to start the stroke. What's my source movement? So when we're practicing, we're always practicing finding the ball position. Practice, work on, we've got some drills, we've got some ways, find the correct ball position because you're gonna the biggest reason you're gonna have for missing a putt is you're gonna play the ball too far forward, too far back, too far away from you, or too close to you. And that changes your stroke pattern, and then you miss it, and then you miss the butt, especially on short ones. So, like for example, a lot of people on short putts have a tendency to play it too far forward and they hit a pull. And then after they pull it, now they're into fix it mode, right? So they play the ball in the same position, and then they start to work their hands to make sure they don't pull it. When the the actual fix was just to get your ball position back where it belongs. So we want you to memorize your ball position. That's part of our practice. You can use a mirror, you can use whatever aid you want to make sure that that ball relative to your left eye or whatever your whatever your point is, is in the right spot. And it might not be, might not be directly under that left eye. And so you have to mark your mirror. Or market somehow. But anyway, find that. Then we want you to make your stroke in sequence. So we're going to ask you what starts your stroke? Is it your left arm? Is it your right hand? Is it your chest? Is it your shoulders? What are you doing? And what's your trigger? And we want you to practice making strokes with the trigger. Now, one of the things that I'll use that just makes it simple is I'll ask you to put a line on the ball and just put the line down on the green. No cup, no target, no nothing. And I want you to make a stroke and make the line go end over end. That's all I want you to do. And if you can do that, then when you go to the target, you can use the line, don't use the line, but make that stroke. Make that stroke. And what you'll find is that your your your your probability of rolling it end over end is much greater if you follow your profile.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Mentioned shot, but do we do we play bricks or do we go straight for the center of the hole?

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Well, depends on depends on where you live. It depends on what kind of greens you're playing. I've got some experience now with your part of the world, Justin. This guy, we gotta have a whole different conversation. The greenier, thicker grass, and some of the guys are playing on the Asian tour. Yeah, you know, well, you're probably better off less break and just beat it, you know. Yeah. And and and make sure it gets on top of the grass. Make sure it gets the old the old Bermuda what years ago when we used to make changes for Bermuda, that kind of works good on greenier stuff. The the girls that play on let um the ladies European tour, boy, they they get different conditions every week. I mean, it's there was one in in Manila, I think, last year, where I mean it literally rained for two weeks. And those greens, those greens are like nothing anybody had ever putted on before. And you know, they they just struggle. I all my all my players were just struggling like crazy. And I just all I could tell them was that, hey, we got to figure it out because somebody's gonna win this tournament. You know, you got somebody's gonna make some putts somehow. Well, it was it was interesting who did, you know, it was it was the high launchers a lot of times, the ones that that that hit up and launch it up rather than trying to launch it low and get it rolling soon. The ones that kind of almost bounced a little bit, almost chipped it. They were the ones that were doing better.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

From the time of separation, how long does the ball stay in mid-air before it hits the ground?

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Uh anywhere from 10% to probably don't want to go any more than 15 or 20 percent of the putting. So on a so on a four-foot putt, it might only be in the air four inches. On a 40-foot putt, it might be in the air 40 feet or four feet before it hits the ground. Well, and wasn't it? Or skidding, it'll be skidding. I shouldn't say it's in the air intermittently, right? It'll it'll but it'll it'll skid. It won't be airborne the whole time. I'm sorry. No, it's it's but it effectively it's in the air, right? Because it's just brushing the grass until the grass, the friction gets it to start to roll. So um, so yeah, I shoot for 10%.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

What's the ceiling height, if that makes sense? How high does it get off the ground?

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Oh, not very high. We okay, we don't like to see it launch any more than you know. Well, I'm I say it, and then I always have to the caveat was Tiger launched it at four and a half degrees in a heyday. Well, four and a half degrees, uh you know, gets three-eighths of an inch, half inch off the ground. That's significant. Yeah, no, I don't think there's anybody on there's no one that I'm aware of right now that launches it at that high anymore. Um typically it's um you know, around two. I think I think the manufacturers are always shooting for two degree launch. That got kind of it's a level launch instead of going up so you don't get to bounce, it skids and then rolls. Um I don't use Quintex, so I'm not I'm not as versed on the numbers. Um it's funny, you know, it's funny, but I joke around anymore that I've had every piece of equipment known to man to diagnose a stroke, and all I ever use is a line on the ball anymore. If you can get the ball, because the the the reasons the ball won't roll end over end, the line on the ball are the same things we're trying to measure. And it's it's easier to see and quicker to evaluate if you just, you know, like for example, guys that launch it too low with a line on the ball, that ball will always, the orientation of the line will always change. It'll it'll twist one way or another if you beat it into the dirt. So as soon as so we know you're launching it too low, launch it a little higher. You know, just change your balance, not change the ball position, just change your balance, launch it a little higher, all of a sudden it goes end over end. A little shout out to Taylor made the best thing they ever did was they made the ball that it's got the big tire stripe on it. Oh, that's that's crazy. I I give one to every lesson. I give here's your practice ball, practice with this, and then what you do, what you do when you apply it. I don't care. You know, you can do whatever you need to do because you know you're you know you've got you're confident you're gonna hit it square, and then whatever you're comfortable with. Too many times we get stuck in, well, I have to do something. I have to use the line on the ball. Well, you don't have to. You can do it once around, five times around, every putt, you can do whatever you need to do. But um, you know, you might have some putts that big breakers, you might not be comfortable with where you put the line. But if you've used it in practice and you know that you're rolling it well, and it's the best way. I'll give you a tip to your audience, they can save themselves some putter fitting fees, go into the big stores and just take a take a ball with a line on it and just start grabbing putters and roll that line around the putting green. Don't try and make anything, just roll that ball around, and the one that rolls it end over end is the one you want to consider. Because you'll know, because if you don't hit it in the middle, if you don't hit the ball in the middle when you use a line on the ball, it will not roll end over end. I don't care how forgiving it is.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Or how expensive the butt is.

Why Most Putter Fittings Fail Outside

SPEAKER_02 50:40

That's right. That's right. So, you know, most of them, most of I I hate where fitting's gone. It's probably if they're if anybody's at fault, I'm probably on the list of people that are in fault because I started talking about fitting so long ago. But you can't matching numbers is not fitting putting. Matching numbers on on technology is not fitting putting. It's it's thinking about all the parameters, all the things that you're gonna have to deal with in a round of golf, and do you have a putter that's versatile enough for you to do that? Like, for example, you know, do you putt from off the green? Do you do you do you instead of chipping, do you have a tendency to want to put? Well, you've got to consider that in the model that you make or that you purchase, because you don't you don't want something that won't you know roll off the fringe. Yeah, you know, so unless you're gonna carry two putters or something like that. But um but no, you've got to you want to consider everything and and getting numbers, zeroing out numbers in a lab setting, not very realistic. Not very realistic at all. Plus the plus nobody there's no turf interference on you know on carpet, you know, most of the time. If you just got, you know, like just flat carpet, like most of them do, yeah. You you'll fit in a putter that you'll fit in a putter that that works great on that carpet. You get a little bit shaggy greens or you get a little water, rain, whatever, it's not gonna perform very well. The lower you launch it, the slower the greens, the more likely you are to leave it short. So if you go in and the guy says, well, you you you launch it too high, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bend on this carpet, I'm gonna bend this thing down to one degree, and you go outside and you've got you got dew or you're you're putting on slower greens and you come up five feet short. That's why, because you didn't launch it high enough to get it going. So it's there's a lot of mistakes. And and then the shame of it is you blame yourself instead of oh, I didn't consider that when I was getting fit. We're doing a um I'm doing a uh document of how to fit yourself. I'm just it's my parting shot to the golf industry. And I'm gonna, you know, and I'm gonna, and at the very least, you're gonna have the right questions to ask when you go get fit.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

Or you can just ago, you think of this document uh when I was training with you, you had that manual. Has it been updated? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll send you a new one. It's uh what was it, 700 pages?

SPEAKER_02 53:22

No, yeah, I've I've trimmed it down a little bit. It's not it's not war and peace anymore, but um a lot of that original one was just all my notes. And now it's just well, you know, that and but I you know I probably at this point I'm probably gonna um I have a hard time finding time to to do the online lessons like I did. Um, so I have to I have to limit them, but I'm I'm gonna make the I'm gonna make the information available. Just if you'd like to work it out yourself.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

You've got the the substantive going. I think that's a very useful resource for this. I've had some guys. It's been great for me.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

One thing is I can I haven't I've never done it, I'll probably start, but uh putting video, you can put video on it. I can blog, you know, I can I can all kinds of resources so I can talk to people. I haven't monetized it yet. Um probably I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing, and then I'll find a way if you want to pay for extra, you know, find a way to have a paid purview uh with it too. But I truth of the matter is the content that I put out there, if it's I'm just gonna find if you call me, I'm just gonna find a different way to tell you the same thing. I'm not hiding anything. I'm putting it, there's no secrets. I'm not putting any, there's no no secrets. So it's um it's all there. It's just sometimes I'll leave something out. Just for most of the time I leave something out because I know I'll if I put something controversial out, I'll hear from the guy and then I'll have to fight with him. So that I contradict, and so I don't do it anymore. I just sorry, I'm getting on the screen here, but I'll just I'll leave something out. But uh, but no, if you if you'll but just basically, if you'll find where you see it best and not judge it and say, hey, Bruce, I see it better when the ball's away from me and I stand straight up. Cool. Tell me where you're at, what where are you relative to your eyes? Tell me where you're at. I can give you a list of putters to start looking at right away. And I promise you, it won't be what you what you think it would be. I know it won't be because most people are influenced by what they read from the marketing standpoint, and they get they get stuck in they get stuck in a putter that doesn't work for what works best for them. And and so it's it's a lot easier just to, hey, just use what you like. And there's there's so many opportunities out there that the forgiveness part of it, all the other things that you might want, we'll we can find one that works. We can find one that satisfies your need for the thought that you might not hit it in the middle of the face all the time. Well, we can fix that. One thing that I just comes to mind is that you know, just for your listeners, that where do you hit the ball on the face? Do you have a tendency to hit it on the toe or do you have a tendency to hit it in the heel? Okay. If you hit it in the heel, you're more likely going to be a blade or toe hang style style player. If you hit it on the toe, you probably want to look at a mallet. Just because of where the center of gravity is on that putter relative to where you're hitting it on the face. So the the reason that mallets are so popular is most people hit it on the toe. And so when you move that center mass out and toward the middle of the face, now the center mass is closer to where they're hitting it. Yeah, it's more forgiving. So, so you know, where but if you hit it in the heel all the time and I give you a mallet, oh, it's gonna feel awful. You know, and there are players, I'm you know, I'm one of them, so I guess that's why I have a bias, but uh I'm gonna miss it in the heel way more often than I miss it on the toe. So that's just a quick tip to what putter I need, just start there. And then that'll give you an idea of where to go.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

I've never I've never been able to use a mallet ever, ever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

Yeah, Jesse, that tells me a lot about what your stroke. I think we talked about this, and I remember that before. Just that right there tells me a lot about what you do in your stroke, right? Yeah, yeah, we know. And and then the idea of that, well, if you could learn how to use a mallet, you'd be better.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

I I struggle with that. Yeah, that one. I I haven't bit on that, thankfully, but a lot of people have. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

It's the first thing they do. I, you know, I got a I heard from a client in Spain yesterday that he he was complaining, just struggling with some short putts and not getting a good strike on the ball, and wanted to blame the weight of the putter. And they said, Well, what's the weight going to do for you? Tell me what it's gonna do for you. Well, all it does is he he he was it was a hint from a another Instagram post that somebody said that you probably, you know, and so and he was playing a lighter putter than he used to. Well, what that light, what that's telling him is that he's got the ball out of position and probably too far forward, and you start hitting it on the bottom of the putter. And you know, that that's another myth that I have to hit up on it to roll it correctly. The loft of the putter will take care of that for you. And and that you need it to spin forward. Well, why do you want to work that hard? You know what it takes to get the ball to roll this way, you know, to turn over it's it it ruins strokes to all the all that you've got to do to do it. For what? Because it's as soon as it hits the ground, whatever you did to it's going away anyway. As soon as that first touch, it's gonna go, it neutral, it's all neutralized. So why what what do you gain? You get the ball comes off faster if you can get it to roll that way. But you know, I've seen I've seen inserts that'll help you get a forward roll on the ball. Does it make you help you make any more putts? No, I'm hitting it past the hole a lot more, though. Oh, well, that's good. That's you know, three foot by is the same as three foot short. So it just I I again, I guess I'm losing my patience, but I it's just the logic sometimes just doesn't make sense. It's just it's not a long drive contest. I'm not trying to get maximum ball speed, I'm just trying to learn how to control it, you know, and and I think that I think we lose we lose sight of all that sometimes.

Visualization Walking Putts And Rhythm

SPEAKER_03 59:55

Yeah. Oh, this is great, right? You talk about losing patience. I think it's about being transparent. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think I think you know, our listeners spend so much uh of their money getting nowhere, no results, either in the full swing, short game, and butting, as we've discussed in the past hour. Like they deserve information that actually works. Like, look, if the three of us were to go to the doctors and get a wrong diagnosis, you've got a lawsuit waiting for you. But not so in the world of golf instruction. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

That's well said, Justin. Yeah, uh, Bruce, I I mean, I really appreciate this conversation because uh, you know, you're you've really uh illustrated well uh demystifying a lot of the you know, part in the vernacular, a lot of the bullshit that's out there. And these are these are good people that are trying to get better playing a game that we love. Yeah. And uh, you know, they're doting a lot of time and their resources, their energy, their mental energy in order to do just that. And uh, you know, that's partly one of the reasons why Justin and I do what we do is to uh is to this is the same thing, is to to demystify a lot of the uh you know the flavor of the month, whatever that is. Yeah, you know, I mean it works for what one out of 15 guys, you know, maybe. Um so I mean this is very useful information. And if you're if you can if you can turn yourself into a good putter, oh my gosh. It's a lot more fun, I know that. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

They um yeah, well, you know, it's it's again, I'm picking on mallets, and I've got a lot of players that use mallets very well. But I so often I'll have somebody go to a mallet and get to zero strokes gained and can't break through the barrier, right? This is at a competitive level and people are tracking it, and can't get past the zero strokes gained barrier. And I say, well, it's quite possible, given the your impact patterns on the putter and all that, that that's as good as you're gonna get with that putter. And because you're not getting feedback on when I hit it flush and when I don't as much, I'm satisfied with a little on the toe or a little on the heel. This might be as good as it's gonna get. We one of my pet peeves is I hate I hate it when we coach to average. I think average is something we can get to on our way to getting better, you know. But I hate it when we just say be satisfied with average. But that's not no one that comes to see me is looking for it. I know that. Occasionally, I guess, but that's usually just a quick email that's hey, Bruce, can you help me with this one little thing? And you know, I'm not really looking for a lesson or anything. And and but no one, you know, it doesn't have to be. We haven't gotten any better. Putting. We've got we've got all this technology and all this stuff and all these training aids and all this stuff. The number, the stats haven't gotten any better. They're just not getting better. So if that's my fault, then I gotta do better, or whoever's doing the coaching's got to do better. You know, it's not the way it's going, it shouldn't be hard to be one or two shots better than the field because it's just not, you know. Yeah, nobody scares me. Like when I was a kid and there were certain guys that they had eight foot, I just walked away because I knew it was going in. Nah, I don't see too many of those guys anymore. You know, Scotty Scheffler on a good day. Um, Rory when he gets it going, but Rory, you know, he he's hot and cold. Um there's some really good, there's some really good putters out there, don't get me wrong, but not not that just dangerous good, you know, just like I'm just gonna I'm just gonna clear the table here and you know get on a roll. And certainly not two days in a row or two weeks in a row. They'll they'll they'll get nine holes in a row, maybe, but they won't.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:10

Yeah, Jordan's feet used to make the hole look like a bug.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Oh, yeah. There's a perfect example, right? There's a guy that, you know, I can't think of the number, you know, he reminded me of Arnold a little bit. Arnold was one, everybody used to complain about all the long putts that AP would make. You know, he'd make he'd he planned on making two or three 30 footers in a round. He just knew it was gonna happen. Well, Jordan was that way too. You know, he just, I'm dangerous from out here, guys. I can see it, you know. And uh and it takes away from the stuff that's important, being able to visualize. You know, we gotta predict it, right? We never know what it's gonna do, so we gotta predict it. So the the ability to visualize a putt and see where it's going and and uh no matter what method you use, I don't have a I don't have a bias for or against anything, but I think that certain people look at things a certain way and they should they should build those skills, you know, and then try and match it up. That's why we don't putt to a hole. I do it all the time. I say, hey, can you hit this 30 feet and roll it end over end? Well, where's the target? No target. What's 30 feet feel like? It drives them nuts, but it's the best drill you can do. Justin, you know, what how do you how many players do you have that judge a wedge distance so without a without knowing exactly what the number is?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

None. Yeah, it's not many. But how many players do you have? Maybe from 40 40 meters in, but outside of that, the rangefinder comes out.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

But how many players do you have that say and you ask them how long is this pipe? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:50

It's up there somewhere. Yeah, I I I I keep telling them they just stand over the ball, they stay there, yeah, and then they expect to get the ball in the hole. I don't know. I'm like you At least have to walk there. You don't have to count steps, but you need to give your brain some kind of idea of the the length of putt you're going to my my time with Debbie Cruz, who's brilliant, unbelievably brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

She she can very clearly explain why walking a putt is beneficial. She has, she, I mean, it's a it's really fun. We did, we were doing a Christopher Smith um from Oregon, uh, myself and Debbie did a couple schools this last fall before I had to drop out. And um shoot, I was a student. I was listening. Because one thing, two things I learned. Number one is uh the perceptual part of it and trying to stay out of your head, but engaged from Debbie, and how that works better when you uh somebody like Christopher, who's a speed golf champion, that get it out of there quick. Don't stand over it so long. You know, make the decision and go. And and so doing everything, staying in motion and and maybe not doing it as fast, but staying in motion keeps you engaged. And really fascinating. And I'm really hoping to be able to get to to do more of that, add more of that to my coaching because it's really helpful, really helpful. Um the the process of reading reading a green is probably simpler than we make it. Yeah. And and you know, it's just uh being able to do that and not get caught up in the minutiae, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

I think most of golf instruction today is overly complicated. Look, the technical stuff that's important that forms the scientific basis, all of us need to be data driven, but the delivery is just too complicated.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

I mean, I think it's great for uh for us, for you know, us on the podcast for the coaches. But I don't think the player needs to know. Exactly. You don't need to, you don't need to know all that. You just need to know I do this and this. You know, it goes back to Arnold's routine of aim the club, put your hands on the club, let your hands tell your feet where to go and hit it. Well, that's pretty effective, boy. You know, and it works really good with putting. And and, you know, set up to an aim to putter instead of trying to roll the robot into place with everything, you know. It's uh it's just it's just better. And and then develop a rhythm that's so that you you're always moving in the same time frame. That's one thing we've seen out of the great putters is that they they had a they had a window of time that they hit the putt, and when they did it, they made a good effort. And if they got out of it, they missed. It was a bad stroke. Um interesting. Tiger, tiger's definitely that way. It was it was it was you you knew you could you could turn your head, you could see Tiger walked to the ball, you could turn your head and you could go, he's gonna hit it now. And he'd and he'd start a stroke. And he did that with all clubs. I mean, it was it wasn't just just the putter, it was all his clubs. It's interesting. Mr. Palmer was that way, Jack, Jack wasn't, Mr. Nicholas wasn't. He'd stand there till he thought he was ready. It might be, it might be Saturday, and then he'd hit it on Sunday. But you know, he was he was gonna he was gonna wait till he was ready. He was the exception to that rule. But then I'm not sure there are too many people that got those kind of nerves. So to be able to stand there that long on some of those putts that he did.

Where To Find Bruce And Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Yeah. Well, this answered some of your questions. Oh, fantastic, Bruce. How can people get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

Uh, the easiest way is just to look for Bruce Rurick on Substack. Just open the Substack Act, put my name in there, and all my contact information, everything I'm talking about. I'm writing more now this winter than I have in the past. Um, but it just I get a whim. And right now we're talking about um going through the process. What you know, the visual aspect of it. Um, you know, that the the big point is, you know, and but it's all there, and you can look it up, and everything I've ever written is on that on that app. So I think there's 400 and some different articles that I've written over the years that are there. So if there's something I know that I didn't write down, it it'd be a miracle, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:32

All of that into the Bruce Reporting manual. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:37

Yeah, and if anybody's interested, they can contact me through the app. Um, I still do the online lessons. Um, I ask for a little more time these days. Uh that might take us, uh you know, it might take us two weeks to a month to get the lesson done instead of trying to do it all in a couple days. And I still have I still have a uh consulting fee that is an unlimited consulting fee that you can sign up for that you text me anytime. Like next week I have a phone call at five in the morning from some Australia guys, you know, that's part of this program. So yeah, you guys, you guys on that side of the world are killing me. Yeah, it's it's a cup of coffee in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

That tells you the dearth of uh good information.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Yeah. And if you're interested in the profiles, they're on the they're on there, and I can help you find them. And then again, well putt, you can get them through me, or I can get them through Wellpot. So most of the time when you see all nine, people recognize Bruce, I'm this one. I know I'm that one. And and it's really the only opportunity that you have to have a you know, I we joke that we're the only ones that custom fit the practice mat to your stroke. So interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

All right, well, thanks, boys. Thanks, appreciate it so much for your time.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:00

I appreciate it, guys. Thank you. We look forward to the next installment. Yeah,