How Grip Size And Weight Change Your Swing

We sit down with JumboMax Grips founder John Mazzanoble and make the case that the handle is a performance part, not a comfort accessory. We talk tour level fittings, why diameter and weight change sequencing and face control, and how to use data to find a grip that helps you hit more fairways and greens. 
• how Sergio Garcia and Jason Day landed on their specs 
• why grip fitting should be numbers first, not just feel 
• how grip size can improve face awareness and reduce rotation 
• how grip weight can change transition, timing, and sequencing 
• what textures, tapers, shapes, and reminders can change in your hands 
• how JumboMax prototypes new designs and what is coming next 
• where to get fit, which retailers carry grips, and how fittings scale globally 
• why putter grip size and counterbalance affect stroke style and control 
go ahead and go to Jumomaxgrips.com 
please remember to rate, review, and subscribe 

Transcript

Why Grip Fitting Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Flag Unter's Golf Podcast. My name is Jesse Perryman. I am your host, along with my co-host, Justin Tang. We welcome you to this week's episode with our man, owner and operator of Jumbo Max Grips. His name is John Mazanoble. He has a been a frequent guest on the podcast. We are happily brand ambassadors of Jumbo Max Grips because we believe in these grips implicitly and explicitly. This week on the pod, John talks about the effectiveness and the absolute must of getting fitted for grips, not only to ergonomically fit your hands comfortably, but to dynamically get the most out of the golf club. And this is something that has been relatively new over the last few years with grip technology. And it has been a sort of a forgotten thing or a happenstance where folks get fitted for clubs, they get a grip that feels good in their hands, but are unaware of any effects that it can have on the shaft, proper loading of the shaft, unloading of the shaft, and maximizing uh center strike. So we talk about that, and we talk about some grips that are coming uh down the road that John and his team are working on right now in RD. And we talk about putter grips as well. So sit back, relax, uh, enjoy this enlightening conversation. We do go pretty deep in it. And once again, go ahead and go to Jumomaxscripts.com. He's got John has and Jumbo Max and his team have a wonderful app that will help you to fit yourself. They use some great technology with this app. You can find it on the app store or on Google Play, Jumomax Grips, Jumomax.com. And please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. And thank you for listening. Welcoming you to another edition. Uh, welcoming you alongside my co-host, my friend, uh, my fellow commiserator in this mission. His name is Justin Tang. He is of the Hidden Castle Golf Club in Singapore. And our guest on today is uh no stranger to the show. His name is John Mazzinoble. He's the owner operator of Jumbo Max Grips, where grips are really uh entering into the final frontier of getting your golf clubs absolutely dialed for exactly with what you want to do with each club. And uh now we've got both sides of the golf club fully, fully intentioned. Welcome, Mavs, Jesse, Justin.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Always a pleasure to be on with you boys. Talk gets and talk golf.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah, good to catch up with you again, uh John. And I second what Jesse said about the grips being the last frontier of golf, but I also want to add that Jumbo Max is blazing new trails with the signing of Sergio Garcia and Jason De, in addition to Ratif Gusin and of course Bryson DeChambeau.

How Sergio And Jason Switched

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yeah, it's it's been a heck of a start to the year so far, Justin. Um, being able to have the opportunity to work with two Hall of Famers, you know, we have you know amazing players that we've worked with, uh, you know, and now it seems like more and more tour players and and you know, who would have thought we'd be working with this quality of player, but we were able to spend some time with these guys and uh you know, Sergio, we ran him through a pretty extensive fitting, and um, you know, it's been a it's been a great experience to work with these guys.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Is it possible to take us behind the scenes and let us in on how the deal started?

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, I mean, you know, they they're both unique in the way that uh they came about to try the grips. Um Jason actually was going uh working with Avoda, and uh Avoda incorporates our grip fitting into their custom club fitting. So when you get fit with Avoda, you're also gonna go through that jumbo max experience. Uh going through the experience, Jason discovered um that he really enjoyed the bigger grip uh and loved the texture. And uh, you know, they actually kind of reached out to us uh, you know, to see what the possibilities were of uh, you know, being being on the team and how we could make something happen with those guys. So a unique situation, you know, and a vote's out there blazing new trails too. Uh and and uh, you know, that's how Jason came about. And we were lucky enough to spend a day with him kind of validating numbers and going through the technical aspects of the grip because Jason really likes to know, you know, the science behind it and being able to talk to him about that kind of stuff and share uh his experiences, you know, we learned a lot, and I think he learned a lot. Um, you know, as far as Sergio goes, uh we talked to him um, I think when we were out in your neck of the woods, Justin, in Singapore, we were uh we were uh at the Live event, and um Sergio was curious about you know what we had to offer. He wanted to uh kind of tinker a little bit. And um at that point, uh we talked about doing a grip fitting. So we got together uh in Austin and spent a day with Sergio and did some really in-depth uh fitting. And you know, we tinkered a lot and you know, it was one of the best experiences uh I've had with a Tor Pro. Uh his ball striking is so premier. So to sit there for a day, watch that firsthand, and then kind of tweak some of the windows that he wanted to hit and some of the ball flights he was looking for uh through the weight of the grip and also through the size, uh, we were able to really find the perfect combo for him. Uh quick story about that is uh a week later, you know, he really liked what he saw, you know, on the range, and you never know until you bring it on the course, as we all know. Uh he had an uh unofficial rider cup with some uh local club members that he was going to go out and play. He posted a 58 and a 62. So uh it was really gratifying to hear the results, you know, came that quickly. And uh he finished second in his first DP event uh to start the year. So he's off to a great start. Um you know he went he went bigger, and as uh you guys probably know, he does backweight a little bit. So we even went heavier in the backweighting with Sergio.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

So go big or go home.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Well, there's an advantage, we just got to find what works best for the individual.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

So what weight and size is Sergio in?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Sergio was uh into the standard jumbo, and he likes to play around 100 grams in the grip. So one of the things that's attractive, especially uh for the tour players right now, is we're actually customizing size and weight. So when we work with a tour player, you know, we have so many variations of size and weight's grip. We we can pretty much get uh players dialed in with what we have in stock. But to take it to that next level with the tour player and get the exact size and the exact weighting for the player, it it gives them so many more options. It gives them a chance to optimize the handle, you know, and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to find the best handle for their sequence to so that they can repeat it as often times as possible. So if we can just make these guys a little bit better uh and give them a little bit more control and maybe take a little bit more of one side of the uh fair one side of the golf course out for them, it gives them a tremendous advantage, and I think they're starting to recognize that.

Breaking The Big Grip Stigma

SPEAKER_03 8:50

You know, when it comes to 12-player equipment, it's usually performance first. So for grips, it's performance, comfort, and the last one that nobody really talks about stigma. There's this stigma of walking around with huge grips for now until people give it a fair shake at it. What are your thoughts on this aspect of the golf grip?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah, Justin, it's so true. We're still fighting um, you know, a lot of misinformation that we've grown up with. Um, you almost have to change your thinking about golf grips, you know. Up until now, there's been one to two size golf grips, and they weighed, you know, between, let's say, 55, 60 grams to, you know, maybe 70, 75 grams. So there's been limited size and choices. So what did we rely on? Uh we relied on feel. And then what did the technical uh fitters rely on? What do we always go back to when it comes to golf grips? What's it gonna do to the swing weight? Not what's it gonna do to performance? It's always falling back on. Well, it's throwing off the swing weight. Well, wait a minute, look at the numbers. The numbers are what we need to focus on. We focus on that with the club, we focus on that with the shaft, but for some reason, when it comes to the grip, all we want to know is how does it feel and what's the swing weight gonna do. So we've kind of thrown all that out the window and said, wait a minute, this is a performance-based fitting. So when you step into our fitting, we're gonna look at numbers, we're gonna analyze is your dispersion getting better? What kind of window are you hitting? What is your ball? What's your spin rate? You know, we're gonna optimize all these aspects of your game through the handle. So it's kind of working backwards from traditional golf, where it's all about the head or it's all about that new shaft. It's really all about finding the only thing that touches the club and optimizing that in size and weight.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

You know, in this in this age of AI, I kind of feel that people get smarter, but you need to also learn to ask the right questions. So it's not about Windows, just Windows trajectory, what are your metrics from the radar? It's also about opening your mind up to other metrics that you may never have considered before. And that's where you guys are so good at with the grip. Data. Like how different is your data from the standard club fitter who only collects maybe shuffle and weight. I think that would be a tremendous insight for our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, I think that you know, fitters are like I said, they're so focused on the head and the shaft, and what's that what what is that actually doing? They're not really paying attention to the grip at all. And without the ability to test different size and weights, you're limited, right? So, you know, I guess it's up to us to kind of educate the public and the fitters. And we're starting to see top fitters in the world. We just did a group, spent a great day with uh Chris Trotty uh at his new Trot Shop over in Carlsbad. And Chris is one of the premier fitters in the world. He's fit Tiger Woods, he's fit all the top players, Jason Day, you know, he spent time with everybody. Um so he really knows his game. And even he wasn't really aware of the possibilities with grits. But after spending a day with us, he's convinced. And uh, you know, we hope to have a long partnership with Chris going forward. So um, you know, when you start seeing those type of titans of the industry, the fitter industry, start to uh understand the process, it's only going to accelerate. And uh, you know, that's the most exciting thing is we're just scratching the surface. Um, once once we're able to get this to more people and allow them to go through this process, cool clubs uh is also starting to do do the fittings. So um, you know, you're starting to see these jumbo max kind of fitting operations pop up where it's just another tool in the fitters toolbox. And and you know, it's being well received.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

You know, to what you say about Trotty, it's about having an open mind. And I think one of Golf Gulf is one of those industries where hanging on to sacred cows is very prevalent. Yep. I mean, think about think about the old days, right? Well, what's your club head speed? 110. Oh, so you're on X flex. That may or may not be true.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah, it's how do you load?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Yeah, how you load. And and I think also it opens up the to uh getting us to think about things like texture. Texture also plays a big difference in how your brain perceives where the club is in time and space. And it could also affect how you load the club as a result. I think that's what we discussed about in our last uh catch-up.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Well, yeah, I mean, there's different shapes, grips, you have rib grips, you have round grips, you have different sizes, you have some with taper, you have some with no taper, you have some maybe with a reverse taper. So there's a lot of ways to grip a golf club, a lot of ways to position your hand. So it's important to go through all those variables if you're truly going to get fit for a grip grip.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

So, what's Jason D using?

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Jason is it he landed in the standard jumbo Zen Light. And it it's just a wonder, it's a premium rubber that we put on that grip. So it gives you that, you know, experience that if you played Tor Velvets, you know, smaller grips and maybe the rubber, which most people have, it gives them that same experience with the larger diameter, but a lighter weight. So the advantage, again, for a lot of people is the ability to go up and down in weight.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

What weight is Jason using?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Uh that's what's going to optimize your sequencing.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

What weight is Jason using?

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Jason is in the uh Zen light, it's 53 grams.

unknown 15:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

So it's a little bit lighter than a standard grip.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Okay. What's the difference? So the standard jumbo is your new offering. How different is it from a standard uh golf break, for example?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Well, that's why we call it standard. We we wanted to clarify for uh folks that uh we do make standard oversized grips, we do make standard jumbo grips.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

So that was the industry standard. It's the industry standard. That's interesting. And do you see these two gentlemen switching to a bigger diameter? Because obviously, if you're climbing a rope, you want as thick a rope as you your hands can get around. That gives you more surface area, more traction.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, I would say honestly, Justin, when we really do the fittings, Sergio was in the extra small when he shot the 58 and the 62. He downsized to the standard jumbo.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Um and he may very well go back to a bigger grip, and Justin may very well go back. But this standard jumbo is kind of become like the gateway grip where you can start getting into something a little bit bigger and testing the waters and before you go into the full jumbo max family. Because a lot of times the numbers are gonna potentially even be better, even with a bigger handle.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

That that is so smart. This you use the term gateway. I I spoke about stigmatization earlier because when I first switched to jumbos, my guys were like, wow, it's so big, you can't even get the clubs into the back, which was true. Yeah, yeah. There were times where I couldn't even pull it out uh properly smoothly. Yeah. And then when they saw that the ball didn't really move through the air, it's just straight left, straight right, or straight, they're like, hey, there's something in this. Yeah. And when you when you see someone hitting drivers straight all day long and use one ball the entire round, you go like, hey, there's something in this.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, no doubt about it. Uh we've got other core pros that have uh approached us, and and you know, we think we're gonna be expanding the team. Um, there's a young man named Ian Gilligan that everybody needs to pay attention to. He's gotten uh two top fives and a top ten so far on the corn ferry. So um I think some of that stigma that you talk about, Justin, is is you know, starting, people are starting to lift the veil. They're starting to become more open-minded. I think when Bryson showed up on the scene with the big grip, it was kind of that Bryson story. He had one-length clubs, he had the hat, he had uh, you know, uh different things in his bag that he would, you know, try. So Jumbo Max was just another kind of outside the box thing that Bryson did. But now with Jason and Sergio, I think what we're seeing is uh more of a mainstream acceptance. Yeah. Um, and I think that's that's what's really exciting is uh again, it's all in the numbers.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Yeah, I think I think if you're an honest person and you go like, what do I want out of my golf game? I want to shoot the lowest scores, then you owe it to yourself to try jumbo max and just see the difference. It's like when we switch from hickory club not sorry, not hickory, I'm not that old. Persimen Woods to stainless steel drivers to titanium. It's like people people were initially put off by the sound. You know, the Callaway E R C it made it ping. And then there was the Nike Square Club, the square drivers, we were all nuts about that for a while. And then you you you maybe it's it's hard to call that an extreme because Fred Couples was using the Callaway Square Fairway wood for so long. But I kind of feel that we go to one end of the spectrum and then we kind of pull back. That's where the mass market lives, that's where mass acceptance kind of resides. We're not gonna go XL jumbo, but maybe somewhere in the middle. And certainly once you try that, you're never going to go back to a standard grip.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah, I think you understand the difference in the face rotation, you can feel it immediately. I mean, once you've swung a jumbo max, uh, you know, that actually fits the right jumbo max, you're gonna have more face awareness. And you're not gonna want to give that up when you go to the skinnier grip. I mean, it's almost immediate. Uh when we go through the fitting, if we do a proper fitting uh and and the customer's gone through the proper exercises, when he gets back down and tries to validate with this his standard grip again, uh that that you feel it immediately. You just like, wow, how did I even how did I do this for so long this way when I could have been doing it this way?

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Not not even a fair comparison, if you ask me. It's like why?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, it's well, you know, it's that taboo that uh is starting to get lifted. So I think we're at that precipice, guys, where uh the industry is starting to listen and people are starting to respond. Uh you know, because it's not really what we're doing so much as what people are saying. It's all organic. It's like all these people that put videos up that talk about Jumbo Max, it's it's from their heart. It's a real life experience that they're just so excited to share. And you know, it just builds that curiosity. And uh, you know, we're starting to see that crossover now.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Can you talk us a little through if it's possible, about the prototyping process? How does it how long does it take you to get a new design to market?

SPEAKER_01 21:53

We're really getting good at that, Justin, because uh our presence on tour, we're getting asked to do different things. And uh we're getting pretty nimble. So, you know, from start to finish, if I have a concept, um, depending on uh, you know, a couple variables, but usually within 30 days, I can get a prototype. I could potentially get something to market within 45 days to 60 days. Now, when we say to market fully up and running on a website, functional SKUs, all the rest of it, that may take a little bit longer. But if I want to fit a pro and get the right grip in his hands so he can play in the masters, we we'll figure out a way to do it. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah. And how long does it take you to get ramped up in terms of production? 16 things.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've expanded our capabilities uh in the last couple years. So uh we're capable of producing a lot of a lot of grips in a short period of time. We've we've we've had a couple runs there, as as probably some of the listeners know, of you know, being on back order during different periods, and you know, with some of the growth we've experienced in scale, uh naturally that takes time to adjust. And we've we've made that adjustment. So we're excited about this year.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Well, that's always a great problem to have when you're back long. But at the same time, it's uh about converting your order book into revenue and net income.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Right. And just, you know, for us, it's more than that. For us, this is a passion. This isn't it's not a revenue-based proposition right now. It's it's more about, man, we are making an impact in the game here, the game that we grew up loving. The green, you know, we're we're just like everybody else, you know. We we were golf junkies that loved the game and wanted to figure out how we could make it better, and to have an opportunity to do that's a dream come true for all of us at Jumbo Max.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah. Well said. Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

So uh what's next for for Jumbo Max? Are you going to be expanding your line of uh apparel and caps, your cap line? I mean, you guys gave us a couple of caps last season. It was just mind-blowing, amazing in terms of the design.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah, I think you know, up until now, Justin, our main focus is how can we make golf grips better? How can we continue to improve the technology, the texture? What can we learn? How can we keep learning? And there's so much more to still do, just focusing on golf grips. Um, but having said that, you know, there's a lot of loyal fans out there that love to rock a jumbo max hat. So um, you know, we have been working on our designs. We have been working to partner with some apparel companies so that we have, you know, something that for the public to represent. So yeah, that that part of the brand is expanding. Um, I mean, we're looking at a couple different things you may see in the near future. I've got a training aid that I think um the public is gonna just absolutely love. It's gonna allow you to have the experience of a jumbo max, but also uh lock in your game in another way. And uh, you know, we're excited, excited to bring that to market here, maybe in the next say, let's say, three to four months.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

You know, talk about materials. How far are you at the edge of exploring materials?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

What will you not use I don't think we're ever going to be at the edge of exploring materials? I think that's an every year conversation. How do we get better? I I don't think there's ever an end to this conversation. I think what there is going to be at some point, and we're getting close, uh, when you can customize the size and weight of a grip, that's when you've reached the pinnacle of what we're trying to do. Because you've now given the player the very best chance to play his best golf by giving him something to hold on to that is just made for him. So that's kind of from a tour from a tour standpoint, that's kind of where we're at and we're what we're trying to do for the players out there on the tours.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

From the I was learning to the Yeah, you you go on, uh I'll I'll follow up after you're from the public.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

From the public standpoint, that's why we offer so many different size variations and weights, because we can also fit the public into the proper grip for them. Now, are they gonna notice 10 grams as much as a tour player? To get the tour player better, you have to be more finite. To get the average player better, you just need to find the right grip within that offering. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

So what I meant, uh what I meant to share was when I was young growing up in hot and humid uh Singapore, I always gravitated to grips that were like the sand rep, uh the leather grips, as well as the victory prize. So, for example, if if I came to you and said, hey, look, could you make me a corded grip? How does the process look like?

SPEAKER_01 27:51

It's uh coming soon. It's coming soon, buddy. Yeah, we've got we're you know, no stone is going to be unturned here, Justin. And and that's been long on my wish list, and uh, I think we're getting closer and closer now.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

You know, core we're on the same page as you.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

100%. Well, we we also have uh uh we have other things, other textures. You're you're gonna be able to find the right texture in the Jumbo Max family. There's in the JMX family, there's no question.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I've got one, uh Maz, I've got one. How about ones with uh ribs with reminders?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

That's also coming, Jesse, only because I'm a reminder guy and I don't, you know, I want to make sure that we're not uh, you know, we're providing something for everybody. And if you don't add in the reminders, which we have in the tour series in the ultralight, so there is a heavy and a light offering with reminders, um, but it'll be a little bit potentially different from what you've seen from us in the past. Um, but that's going to happen this year as well.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Well, you know, here's one for you, uh John. How about letting people create their own little logo icon at the bottom end of the grip as you as it connects to the steel?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I mean, there's uh opportunity there, Justin, but I think from a numbers standpoint, for it to make sense, there there would be a relationship and you know uh opportunity there. Uh there's probably got to be a little volume for that, is what I'm trying to say. It's not that easy to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

I mean, maybe one day, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

You know, I would never say that the sky is the limit, man.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah, we want to keep pushing it, but uh more importantly, we want to find out how to optimize the golf grip. And we have other things in the works that are really exciting, things that you know you know, right now golf grips have one to two touch points. We won't maybe what what if you had three touch points on a golf grip? Wouldn't you maybe have more options in your game if you could hold the grip three different ways? So there's there's things that there's things that we're exploring that we're gonna bring to the game that uh we think is gonna make the game better.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Here's something here's something quite interesting. I I noticed. So when I pulled out one of my older uh jumbo max Zen light, I I realized it just pulls out like a an ordinary grip. I was expecting the inner foam to be all over the shop, but nothing like that ever happened.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

No, it's it's the the you know our our uh assembly and our methods for constructing grips provide you not only with performance but comfort. And it provides you with you know usability. We don't we don't want to change you know the way a golf grip goes on and off. We just want to make it feel better and perform better.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

That's well said, you know, uh Maz Justin and I were talking uh prior to about the uh some of the effects that uh Jummo Max Grips has. And you and I have talked about it for me. I'll start first, Justin, and then and then uh talk about what we talked about before. But uh, you know, I have the SJs, I have the standard Jumbo Zen lights, as you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

And uh, you know, for for the listener, how important it is to be intentional with how you set your golf clubs up. Uh just the adding of those grips has allowed me to have the club be a little bit more paused in transition, meaning the club is gonna drop, the club head's gonna drop because the the grip end is a little bit lighter. So the club head's gonna drop and I'm gonna slot it. It's it's it actually the ease of me slotting it and just maintaining my rotation for as long as possible has accelerated because of the grip. Because of the grip.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

The science, the science of the grip, Jess. That's the key to it. The grip you selected promotes exactly what you're talking about is that moment in time. Because of the lightness of that grip, that's one of the lighter grips that we have. So for somebody who would like to have that little pause, the extra lag, we would perhaps it's lag, perhaps it's a pause, but you're more aware of that spatial area because that weight of that grip matches everything that you do in your golf swing. We didn't change a golf swing, you didn't do anything different. You picked up a grip that optimizes because a little bit bigger diameter, you have a little more phase control, a little less rotation, you're able to use your bigger muscles more, but now you're also able to sequence it better because we found the optimum weight of the grip for you. And that's what we do. That's exactly you're a perfect example of what we do.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Interesting. It'll be interesting, John, to get your players trying different grips on a swing catalyst or a 3D monitor.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Oh, yeah, we we've got gears at our disposal, we've got a lot of opportunities. Um, we have a fitting area that we can take advantage of to really put our players through. You know, if somebody wants to get fit for the ideal grip, um, we're able to accommodate.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

So, what does how how does the the 3D graph uh look like? Like the changes. Have they I'm sure there've been nothing short of mind-blowing. You've got coaches who keep trying to get their players to do this and that with the feed, whether it's uh their verticals or the laterals or the rotational. Like this might be the lowest hanging fruit and trying to modify those patterns.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Yeah, I mean, listen, there's always room for improvement. The technology is moving so fast these days, Justin. It's hard to keep up with. I mean, we have 3D, now AI is gonna be a big part of what 3D is gonna do, and it's just gonna keep developing, you know. But it there's one constant is that you got to go out on a golf course and you got to hit the golf ball. And if your numbers are lower and you're hitting more greens and hitting more fairways, then we've done our job.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Yeah, that's all that matters. The skull cut.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

That's all that matters. Uh, and you know, I think we've learned enough through um the independent testing and the 15 years of doing what we've been doing, watching people hit golf balls uh with different size weights, watching the best players hit golf balls with different size and weights. We've been able to really uh master kind of you know the understanding of what different dynamics of the drip can do to help a golfer. And so we've incorporated that into the brand. So that's what people are getting when they get a jumbo max. They're not just getting a color or a feel or one or two options that they gotta go play, they're getting a real opportunity to optimize uh their swing to the handle.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

So you know that that's really what it's about.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

And again, you guys are available throughout the mainland of the United States.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I would say at this point we're available all over the world, really. Um somebody wants to get a jumbo max, even wants to get fit by a jumbo max, uh, it won't be long before you'll be able to go somewhere where wherever you are and have that opportunity. Um, we've been setting up some fitting centers. We haven't formally announced it yet, but uh I would say within the next 90 days, there'll probably be a press release of you know 20 plus places where you can go get fit by Jumbo Max. Plus, I think there's 50 to 60 a vota fitting centers that have popped up around the around the country and world. So you can find a place to go get fit. Nice one.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Yeah, and who are the big box guys? Sorry, the uh big uh retailers that you work with just for the benefit of our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Uh yeah, I would say um Golf Galaxy carries a nice variety of our stuff. PJ Superstore um carries uh only right now, they only carry the extra small, medium, extra large in the ultralight. But they do have you know those grips on on hand and in stock, and I think that line will be expanding very soon. Um, and then as far as the Roger Dunn, Worldwide Golf, Edwin Watts, they all should have uh stock. So um make sure you call ahead, but most of these stores will have our brand, Dick Sporting Goods, um, some of their select stores, um, and then you know, just any any bigger golf store, uh, you'll probably find Jumbo Max in their in their offering.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

What uh any new tournament, any tournament, upcoming tournaments that you and your team would be showing up at?

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Uh, we're everywhere right now. We're on tour. So if you go to a golf tournament, you'll see jumbo max representation. Uh, we got players that are coming up and uh, you know, wanting to wanting to uh try try the brand and wanting to see what it's all about. So we're present right now, Justin. You'll find us at the live events, you'll find us at PGA tour events, corn ferry events, senior events, even LPGA events.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

Yeah, and introduce your tour rep to our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Well, I I you know he's probably somewhat familiar. His name's Alex Trajillo. We call him Nacho Numbers because he's probably the best numbers guy in golf. He's somebody that worked with Bryson through Flight Scope for a number of years uh by his side, taking all his numbers. Uh, he's worked with several touring pros, and you know, we're lucky to have Nacho. He's probably one of the best. I like to say he's the best numbers guy in golf, and his resume will support that. Awesome. Yeah, and he's out there, he's doing fittings, he's doing you know tour quality fittings for us. Um, he's also doing a lot of the training, as am I. I'm still on the road, so there's a chance I may be uh rolling into the club and and helping train our fitters, and and you know, this this is a passion project, guys. We want we wanted to get this right.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Indeed. Maz, um, how how is jumbo max flowing downstream into amateur golf, collegiate golf, junior golf, etc.?

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Great question, Jesse. We've partnered uh with uh uh one of the major college tournaments called the Bryson, um, and um we're having great success. It's gonna be at Durral. It's got a lot of the top 20 teams, uh, so we're a big part of that event, but uh we're also going from school to school. Um, we've been invited to go to University of Florida to do a fitting for the Gators, which is near and dear to my heart. Uh, but we also have a lot of other schools that have reached out um that we will be working with and doing fittings for collegiate teams, and um, it's a big part of uh what we're doing going forward.

Specs, The AI App, Trial Kits

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Very nice. Yes. Last last question for me, John, on uh the group specs. So you guys are one of the few that actually talk about no core diameter, everyone's uh referencing that on their specs, their spec sheet. But you guys also have mid diameter and butt diameter. Could you just explain that us for the benefit of our listeners who want to buy some grips on your website?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah, I mean, what we found through our testing and you know, uh a lot of years of experience is the more you build up the bottom hand, the more you're gonna help somebody who really flips the club. So if you really are looking to slow face rotation, the reason we put the different diameters on is because we want you to know what you're holding on to. Um, you know, at the bottom of the grip, it makes a big difference. Both hands count. So sometimes we'll make the top top hand a little bit smaller to accommodate a certain swing style, or we may make the bottom hand, you know, a little bit smaller or bigger to accommodate. So, because of the variety of grips, we feel it's important for the consumer to know uh what fits them the best, what they're trying, you know, what what you know issue with their ball flight are they trying to solve? And we can accommodate through different grips and diameters at different points of the grip.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

So a guy who wants to just buy a couple of grips off the website doesn't know where to start, what would be a good place?

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah, we made we've made that easy, Justin. There's uh there's an AI app at uh the Jumbo Max uh fitting app that I would recommend all of your listeners, if they're curious, to download. It's 200 data points that it's going to measure hands. So we've put a lot of work and a lot of our experience into this app. This app has proven to be very reliable when trying to select the right grip. What I would say that we've also added on our website for our customers is a uh a trial kit. So uh what we often find in our fittings is we'll find the right size for the grip for the customer, but then it's important to also find the right weighting. That's why we offer heavy grips and lighter grips because we want to get that sequencing right. And that's where we're going to be able to do that with the weight of the grip. So uh face rotation, we feel like we can do a lot of great work with the players through diameter and sequencing. We really rely on some of the weighting. So um we'll run customers through that fitting in person, but if they can't do that, they go to the AI, they take the fitting test, and they order the trial kit, which will give them the size in both heavy and light. So they get a chance to try the heavy and light grip. So uh, you know, that's recommended for the customers that want to tinker and and and really want to go through the experience, but can't get to a facility.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Very cool. Yeah. Got all the boxes checked, Maz. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Uh yeah, Jesse. We we, you know, we we want to build the game. We we want to make uh we want to make grips sexy, buddy. We're we're trying to we're trying to bring sexy to golf grips and um you know uh optimize what people can do on the golf course.

Putter Grips And Face Control

SPEAKER_00 43:41

And to the listener, uh both Justin and I played Jumbo Max. Uh for me, I have found uh that it really was the missing piece in getting the club to perform the way I wanted it to. And also uh one thing. That we haven't talked about that has been key in the development the development of my game is my putter grip. So let's talk about Jumbo Max putter grips a little bit and the optimization of those.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah, we've put you know a lot of effort into uh building a premium putter grip line, and again, it's science-based. There's going to be counterbalance putter grips, there's going to be wider diameter. Same thing you would get you would expect from us in the swing grips, you're going to get in the putter grip. You're going to get science. Um, and and you know, we have to sequence it. Our putter, nothing's more important than sequencing a uh, you know, your putter grip and getting the weight and the size right because you're controlling face rotation, you're either eliminat it or adding it, and you're either going to um, you know, have more of a pendulum stroke, or you're gonna, you know, be one of these folks that want to keep their hands ahead, and it's it's more of a you know, keep the triangle kind of stroke. So whatever your stroke is, we have a grip to accommodate that. We have pistol grips, we have straight cylinder grips, we have 13-inch wide grips, we have uh cloth style grips, um, we have flat palm grips, it'll fill up your whole palm, but it's narrow, uh, so that you know it can kind of keep your your hands more uniform. Um we have 21-inch, we have uh you know two-piece grips, um great designs, great colors. So, and from a price point standpoint, uh there's a there's a savings to be had. So uh, you know, we don't want to charge a premium uh you know for a putter grip when you know we know we know what it costs to make it. So we want the public to have that experience, uh, you know, we feel is a great price point.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

Right. I think uh Jesse, we covered most of the stuff. Yep, we did. Hey John, it was always great catching up with you and the and the development of the uh jumbo max team. We certainly look forward to the next uh update from you guys.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Well, let me just say uh, you know, you guys' show has just been on the cum for a while. I love coming on with you guys because you have passion for the game the way I do, and it's always a great conversation, guys. Thank you. Yep, you're welcome. 100%.