Learn To Play Your C Game And Still Win. In Conversation with Dan Abrahams

We sit down with sports psychologist Dan Abrahams to unpack why golfers tighten up under pressure and how to build mental skills that hold up when your swing is not there. We focus on playing your “C game” well, managing automatic negative thoughts, and using routines plus a competitive persona to stay committed over every shot. 

• Dan’s background across elite golf and team sports 
• Why winning often requires a strong C game 
• ANTS as automatic negative thoughts and feelings 
• Why short putts feel harder than long shots 
• Acceptance and why fighting thoughts backfires 
• Attention control as the top mental skill 
• Ruthless routines and refusing to hit on an ANT 
• Game face and alter ego tools for confidence 
• Metaphors as fast mental cues under pressure 
• How self-talk influences hormones and muscle tension 
• What separates high performers beyond technique 
• Practice levels that add realism and consequences 
• Mental toughness as discipline on the range 

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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sport-psych-show/id1434313037

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello and welcome once again to another edition of the Flaghunters Golf Podcast. Where we are joined this week by none other than Dan Abrams. Dan is a sports psychologist from England, has extensive background in soccer and golf. Former professional golfer himself, so he is coming from not only an educational perspective, but an experiential and holistic perspective. He is also the host of the sports psych podcast. Just like it sounds, I will make sure to have all of his information in the show notes as well, because I will strongly encourage you, the listener, to tune into what Dan has to say. The short version of this intro and in the main body of the podcast, Dan talks about not only strategizing to become a more complete player, but also to have contingency aboard when you don't have your A game. Golf isn't linear, folks, as much as we want it to be, and we do need to have a holistic plan every time we step up on the first T to be prepared for whatever faces us, to get the best out of our rounds, and to gain confidence and self-belief no matter what happens. And Dan explains and exemplifies that beautifully. So thanks for tuning, everyone. I hope that you have a great week. Dan Abrams, once again, all of his information will be in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

Dan Abrahams Background And Work

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Along with our guest, we finally wrangled Dan. His name is Dan Abens. Dan, welcome, golf.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Hey, thank you so much. Uh honored and delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Hey, thanks for making it happen, Dan. We know you're a very busy man. Uh so for the benefit of our listeners, Dan is formerly the lead psychologist for England Golf. And prior to that, he was a former professional golfer. And also is the host of the Sports Psych podcast. So be sure to check that one out. Dan isn't just a golf shrink, he understands and has firsthand experience of how the brain malfunctions under pressure. Welcome to the show, Dan. Hey, Lucas. So so good to be here. So tell us, what do you do for a living?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I'm a sports psychologist, just as you said there. So I um, as you mentioned there, um I am a former professional golfer, failed miserably to win any money whatsoever as a pro golfer, which isn't great. Um, I then moved on to coaching the game. So I became a PGA coach for a few years, but I always had a real interest in the mental side of the game, probably across all sports, but especially golf, because I was a golfer. Um, and then I did all my qualifications to become a fully uh qualified and registered sports psychologist here here in the UK, but around the world as well. And so over the past 20 years, I have been a sports psychologist. I've been blessed to work across all sports, um, uh especially um in uh football or soccer, as you might describe it. Um and actually I I head over to uh Los Angeles quite a bit, uh Jesse, actually, because I uh work with uh Angel City in the NWSL, the National Women's Soccer League. But I've worked with half a dozen Premier League clubs. Um I was lead psychologist for England rugby uh going to 2019 World Cup. I was lead psychologist for Aston Martin Formula One. Um uh and uh I uh in golf have worked with uh professional golfers on both sides of the Atlantic. I was lead psychologist for England Golf 2013-2016. I've worked closely with the British PGA, um, and uh I've written uh well, I've just released my fifth book, uh, um, which is called Compete. Uh, but I wrote one of my golf book, it was called Golf Tough.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

So that gives you uh a broad idea of who I am, and that's how I got to know Dan the Man. So in COVID, I chanced upon a few of your books, Soccer Tough, and golf tough, and I'm like, hey, hang on, this is very different. Came to find out about your podcast on Spotify, could not get enough of it. Maybe it's a British accent.

Rory Winning With A C Game

SPEAKER_00 5:16

I on my podcast, I think I'm a very average host, but I have amazing guests, and thank you for mentioning that. The Sports Psych Show is a great podcast. As I said, I'm an average host, but I have uh some of the leading um professors and doctors of sports psychology around the world, and we do real deep dives into the mental side of sports, so um it's uh very kind of you to take take some time to listen to that.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

No, I I remember vividly what you talked about game phase and alter egos, but before we get into the good stuff, and this is topical. What happened to Rory from struggling to winning the masters? Yep. Now he can't stop winning them.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Like what's I know, I know, I know, I know. What an amazing event it was. Hey, look, um, I think there were two really interesting things that um, you know, out of the master. I mean, there were lots of interesting things, right? But um uh let me actually let me start with Rory. Um, what what what I was particularly impressed about is on Saturday and Sunday, for me, he had his C game and he was able to win on his C game. And I don't think he could have done that, you know, maybe even just five years ago, maybe even just a few years ago. Um and I say C game because it, if I may briefly describe this, when I was lead psychologist for England Golf, I actually brought in this idea of A game, B game, C game, D game. And I'm not suggesting that's anything new. You hear pundits talk about, you know, a player's on his C game, but A game, B game, C game, D game, because I noticed, you know, with these England, England golfers, top amateur golfers, gonna go on and compete professionally. Um, when they were on their C game, so perhaps you know their swing wasn't there quite there, the ball striking was a bit scratchy, they weren't hitting fairways, weren't hitting greens. When they were on their C game, they would just melt in that moment, you know. They would really be engulfed in negative thoughts, emotions, feelings. So what we brought into England golf was we are going to help you. We want you to become passionate about getting the most from your C game. And we be golfers who go under par on our C game. And you can think about that as a handicapped golfer. Can you go under your handicap when you're on your C game? Anyway, back to Rory. That's what impressed me the most. You know, he came out the blocks, six shots in the lead Friday night, but then on Saturday, swing wasn't there, you know, timing wasn't there. There were a few things wrong in the downswing. But, you know, he got himself around, all right. He was, you know, joint in the lead then, and then he got himself around in the final. Absolutely brilliant. The other really fascinating thing for me was Justin Rose. Now, uh, I'm a couple of years older than Justin Rose, um, but I played full-time amateur golf when he was playing full-time amateur golf. Much better player than me, even though he was a few years younger than me. Um, and so I've grown up very much playing alongside him. I haven't actually had the privilege of playing with him, but playing alongside him, playing in the same tournaments, and then watched him do amazing stuff as a professional and see him be incredible under pressure, um, winning the US Open, you know, winning around the world, becoming the world number one golfer for a little bit a few years ago. But boy, for me, and by his own admission, you know, he said himself that you know he didn't commit to some shots on that back stretch. I thought he um he uh wilted on the 10th and the 11th, uh obviously, and obviously the 12th as well. But down the 10th, he didn't release hard through impact. On the 11th, he didn't either, made bogeys, made three bogeys, didn't he? And and or no, mate went par bogey bogey. But um it was amazing to see how in that moment, contextually, he didn't deal with the pressure very well. So, you know, some really amazing things. But Rory, wow, how many is he gonna win? We'll go, we'll we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

It looks like he won't be able to stop winning.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I mean, you might be right, you might be right. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

So let's talk a little bit about your your theories. So the primal, let's start with the primal paradox. Golf is a non-context spot. But again, you know, to to to touch on on uh what you mentioned earlier when you crumble under pressure, a three-foot putt. That's not gonna cause you any harm. But that's the sort of putt that will make grown men quiver and have their knees knock each other. And we've seen that so many times down the stretch at Augusta. Why does that happen?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, you see it down the stretch in a major championship for two reasons. Okay, so let's bring in a couple of ideas here. Let's bring in a couple of concepts. So, look, there are there are uh eight billion people on planet Earth. This is gonna sound like being at school here, so please excuse me, but I'll try not to make it sound too much like that. But there are eight billion people on planet earth, and I think it's pretty fair to say that there's a lot of geopolitical divide in the world right now, okay? But if you were to suggest us one thing that we all have in common, it's that if you strip back psychology, all eight billion of us experience thoughts, emotions, feelings. Thoughts, emotions, feelings. This is really important for the audience listening to understand. But if you really strip back psychology, so much of it can be uh derived around thoughts, emotions, feelings. And we don't do those thoughts, emotions, feelings on purpose, especially when we play golf. You know, our thoughts happen to us, our emotions happen to us, our feelings happen to us. Now, um uh when something is important to us, like hitting the fairway, like hitting the green, like holding a three-foot putt, um, when something is important to us and there is a high degree of uncertainty, we don't know if we're gonna hit a good shot, and certainly in my golf, I never knew if I was gonna hit a good shot. Uh, there's a high degree of uncertainty, there's a higher degree, high degree of importance. Then those thoughts, emotions, feelings tend to tilt towards the negative. They tend to tilt towards anxiety, anxious thoughts, emotions, feelings. Now, I have a name for those negative thoughts, emotions, feelings. I call them ants, and I call them this in my book, Golf Tough. Um, ants, the A stands for automatic, the N stands for negative, the T stands for thoughts. And I obviously cheat a little bit with the acronym because I bolt on emotions and feelings. So ants are automatic, negative, thoughts, emotions, feelings. So when we talk about that three-foot putt, because we're really close to the whole, the closer we get to our objective, the greater the sense of anxiety we might experience because you know we've nearly accomplished our objective. Just hold this three-foot putt. Um, we uh have more, we can have more ants and a louder volume of ants, automatic negative thoughts, emotions, feelings. And that word automatic is really important. We don't do it on purpose. We experience automatic negative thoughts, emotions, feelings. So we are kind of biologically, uh, we have biologically evolved to experience this in moments of high importance and high uncertainty. And to meet your point, Justin, it's like these aren't dangerous situations, but the body treats it as a dangerous situation. Um, and so we have more ants, a higher volume of ants, and the problem is the ants tense and tighten our muscles. They distract us away from executing our stroke in a in a confident manner or a committed manner or a free manner. Uh they shift our attention. Golf is what the bull does. What the bull does is determined by what the club tells it to do. What the club tells it to do is influenced by how the hands, arms, and uh body are moving, the combination between the three. But how the hands, arms, and bodies is moving is determined by thoughts, emotions, feelings. And so when we have an infiltration of ants, that makes a difference to how we move the club in the golf swing or in the putting stroke. So this is what's happening. So we need to be able to hit our shots with either a very low volume of ants or no ants at all. As I say to my clients in golf, you've got to execute a ruthless routine. And for me, the very definition of a ruthless routine is being in control and in charge, refusing to hit a shot or refusing to hit a putt on an ant, an automatic negative thought and motion feeling. And so so much of my work is making sure that players have ruthless routines, no shot hit on an ant.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

I'd like to introduce, ask you whether the introduction of another variable changes uh our understanding, outcome. So if I'm hitting a 300 yard drive, not so much uh anxiety. Because it's like, yeah, sure, the the the degree of difficulty is higher, but as we approach the horse, two footer, three footer, it's like what does the stat say PGA to it, 99% conversion? Does that affect the the way we behave?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

You know, context matters. I this is a really, really good question, and I I'm afraid it's kind of blanketed in complexity, in as much as uh you it's definitely a truism that the closest to the hole you get, you know, the more one thinks, well, I should be holding this or I should be hitting a great shot. And so again, that turns up, that increases ants or can increase ants. That word can is really important, and can turn up the volume of ants. So I think I think that is a fair thing to say, but that is mediated by so many factors. It's like if I'm putting really well on a particular day, that actually might in and of itself mean I don't have any ants, you know, because I'm feeling great over that three-foot part, my stroke feels great, I've hold some, I've got some evidence that I can hold it. Right, brilliant. Um, or it might be early in the round where you know you might feel there's less on it, you know. So, so uh and then come back to that t-shot. Uh, the fairway might be wide open, or we might have a really tight fairway that we've got to hit. And so we have more ants. Uh, there might be weather conditions that make a difference. Uh, there might be uh it might be a a competition I'm playing in with the opening t-shirt. I I played in the final qualifying to the 1998 British Open. Um, and I had, you know, for me, it was a massive deal. I had 500 people standing behind me. I had a big drawer with some good names. I had Larry Mys in front of me who'd won the 1987 Masters. Um, and I was, to be quite frank, engulfed in ants. So that opening tee shot was absolutely terrifying for me. And it's one of Jack, I qualified out of uh Hillside, which is one of Jack Nick Nicholas's favourite courses in the UK, if not the world. And you've got train tracks going down the left-hand side. And so all I was thinking is don't go out of bounds. Actually, as it happened, I hit a great shot. Um, proceeded to hit a million more shots, but so I'm answering it like this, Justin, because it's just not straightforward in that way. But certainly it is bizarre, it is paradoxical, the closer you get to the hole, the more pressure you can place on yourself because there's an expectancy effect there. I expect it to hold this, and so it almost delivers greater uncertainty.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

That's a great word, expectancy. That's a great phrase, expectancy effect. Yes. So it is entirely possible that golf is one of the worst games ever for the human psyche because you've got so much time to think, oh, if I miss this part, what will people think of me? I'll become a a negative headline or a positive headline, let's go down a blaze of glory or or not. In fighting, uh you know, if you if we were in a uh MME ring, if if we overthink things, oh I gotta move my body, uh oh no, no, I gotta move more of my arms, you get knocked out in a heartbeat. So how do we shut that voice off besides the ruthless routine of not hitting the bar when in ant mode? Yeah, I I hear I hear a lot about acceptance. Like just accept it. Like this is how I feel. You embrace their feeling, and hopefully the ants go away. I'm just trying to think of solutions to this that may resonate with different people that are on this uh listening to this podcast with us.

Building A Relentless Game Face

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, you know, you know what, uh you are really really correct to say that acceptance has become quite mainstream now in psychology and sports psychology, and it comes from a a branch of uh uh a framework, I should say, since the 1980s, where we talk about it's called ACT, which stands for acceptance commitment therapy, which was is to accept the thoughts, the emotions, the feelings that you're experiencing, but to commit to probably playing in line with your values or uh to commit executing your swing with uh confidence or something like that. And and definitely I might say to a player, look, let's talk about what acceptance can look like to you, that I accept I'm gonna have these ants, these automatic negative thoughts, emotions, feelings. Because also um the the argument here is when you fight against your thoughts, emotions, feelings, when you try to push back on them, you actually invite in more negative thoughts, emotions, feelings. And this actually has a term called ironic processing theory. It's a horrible term, but it's basically if I was to say to you don't think of a pink elephant, what tends to happen? You know, it's you think of a pink elephant. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. It's it's don't think don't invite in uh what you don't want to think about. Um so there's a good research to suggest that, and that's where this acceptance commitment therapy comes to a look ultimately, let me answer you like this the a central hub in psychological regulation, uh self-regulation, or even better still, self-control. Because I talk to golfers all the time all the time about taking control, taking charge of themselves, taking charge of their response to their ants, taking charge of their response to the shot that they've uh just uh hit. You've got to take control. And to do that, you take control of your focus of attention. Attention is probably the number one mental skill in sport. And that's let's go back to Rory in the Masters. And let's go back to what we were ex what we were watching on Sunday afternoon there. We were watching the best players in the world try to take control of the ball by taking control of their golf swing and their golf putting stroke, by taking control of their attention. And attention can go all over the place. Again, it can go onto the ants, the automatic negative thoughts, emotion, feelings. It can go left into the bunker, it can attention can go right into the trees or into the water. Going down the 11th that the masters at Augusta, you know, the the the water on the left of the green, our attention becomes captured and captivated by that. And so a great skill in golf is to be able to take control of your focus of attention. And that's where you need attentional cues. And that's where I come back to if I was to talk about a ruthless routine, I am trying to help players uh have attentional cues that fills their mind with positive things. So I might talk to a player about taking a committed practice swing. I might talk to them about as they're taking a committed practice swing, feeling the strike and seeing the shot, feeling the strike and seeing the shot as they swing through that practice swing. What they're doing when they're doing that is they're taking control of their attention and they're not letting their attention fall into focusing on the ants. Then I might talk to a player about. Taking control of their walk into the golf ball. I know that sounds a bit strange, but I will I might talk to them, I might get them to pick a Q word like a stride or a stare or a confident walk or an upbeat walk or a positive walk or something like that. Again, what they're doing there is they're using their body language not just to feel great as they walk positively into the ball, but also to take their mind away from any ants that they might be experiencing. Um then I might get them to take a confident swing or a committed swing or a free swing. Again, taking control of their attention. So so much of this is about taking control of their attention. Now, in between shots, just as in and around the ball I talk to players about having a ruthless routine. I also teach players, and I talk about this in my book, Golf Tough. I also talk to players about having a relentless game face. You mentioned this earlier, Justin, having a game face. What is a game face? A game face is my tool and technique whereby you it's a competitive persona, it's an attitudinal guide, it's a behavioral blueprint, it's a blueprint for the behaviors you want to have on the course. To bring this alive, I'll give you an example. When I was working with England Golf, we had a young player who qualified for the 2015 British Open that was at St. Andrews that year. And he said to me, he phoned me up and he said, Dan, to be quite honest with you, I have so many ants. I've qualified for the open. I've got so many ants, I'm scared to shoot 90. This is a guy playing in the open, which is completely understandable. And I knew what we had to do was to create a game face because I wanted him to take control of his attention and place his attention on the competitive persona he wanted to have out there. So I asked him, I said to him, Who do you want to be out there? Who's a golfer that you love that you'd like to model yourself on or mimic? And actually he picked Rory McElroy. And I said, Why do you like Rory McElroy? And he said, I love the way McElroy bounces around the golf course. I love his body language, I love the way he moves around the course. So we came up with a game face of Maca bounce, Maca bounce. So walking onto the practice ground in the first round, he walked onto the practice ground, Maca bounce. He was directing his focus attention away from the ants onto Macabounce. He walked off the practice ground after warming up, onto the putting green, macabounce, on the putting green, to the first tee, Maca bounce. He walked Macabounce around the course. Now, I'm not for one minute suggesting this is the only thing we did, and it's the only thing that you can do. But he had a game face of Macabounce that helped him take control and take charge of his attention, squashed his ants, and helped him to shoot a good score. I think he actually made the cut that weekend in the so you're saying fake it until you make it.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

I'm saying it's true, and it'll be true. I'm saying be it because I I'm no no no no. I I get I get what you're saying. I I was I was uh quest questioning you open and closed invertent comments. Yeah. So it's just for the benefit of our listeners, right? Like if you've got the skill, you you need an outlet for that skill to come up. And what you're suggesting is the game phase, the alter egos could be such an outlet to tap into or a method to tap into that talent that's already there. Like, look, if you're a 36 handicapper, you can mecha bounce or be you're not gonna shoot under par at uh I'm not I'm not sorry, please.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

I'm I have 30 years in the sport. I wouldn't I would never never say that. What it's about doing is it's optimizing the skills you do have, uh engaging in self-control. I want you to go out there and execute ruthless routines, no shot hit on an ant, and a relentless game face. If you do that, you optimize your ability to hit A and B shots, as in the A shots, the rip shot, the B shots, finding the fair end, find the green, minimizing C and D shots to shoot the lowest possible score. That's all you can ask from yourself is to shoot the lowest possible score by optimizing A and B shots, minimizing C and D shots by executing ruthless routines in a relentless game phase. In a nutshell, if you can become outstanding at doing that, you give yourself your best chance to high perform more consistently under pressure in relation to your ability as a golfer.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

So remind me then. I I recall listening to you give an interview during COVID. You mentioned that when you were coaching one of the England teams, I can't remember if it's golf, soccer, or rugby. You had them Chantamantra, relentless game phase, lion, something along those lines. Lion face. Yeah, what is that meant?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

So the game the game phase, building on the game. So I if we go back to that England golfer in 2015 Open, I asked that player to pick a model player. I also asked players, and maybe this is a little less so in a sport like golf, but uh, as I've said to you earlier, I've worked at six Premier League clubs here in the world of soccer, football, uh here in England. And um especially in team invasion sports, I I would often ask a player to I'd ask them once they've picked a uh um a couple of action-based words like alert, alive, lively. Tell me about you at your best. And then I might pick a couple of words like alert, alive, lively, relentless, upbeat, dominant, aggressive, focused, calm, something like that. I'll also ask them, is there a live, excuse me, is there an animal that springs to mind when you think about you at your best? Now, that sounds like a very strange question to ask somebody, and you always get a little bit of a chuckle from a player when you ask them that. But the point is, is that our what what the science suggests, and this science was done back in the 1960s, or excuse me, back in the 1970s by a cognitive linguist called George Lakoff. George Lakoff uh studied out of, he was a professor at Berkeley University, and his work was on um uh metaphors. He showed the world that 70%, around 70% of our language is metaphorical. So when we think about fast-acting mental techniques, things like lions and leopards and cheetahs and stuff like that, I've worked with some very, very high profile English soccer players, world renowned, who have picked things like uh for a game face dominant relentless lion, dominant, relentless lion, dominant, relentless lion, because again, they'll say to you, I'm I'm a lion out there, I'm the king of that penalty area, I'm I'm the king out there. And it metaphors or a cheater is quick, is fast. So metaphors can be not for everybody, it doesn't resonate with everybody, but can be very useful out there. I wouldn't mind being dominant aggressive lion out on a golf course. If I could get in a time machine and go back to my playing days, I would probably pick a Woods, a Tiger Woods, or a Kepka, although Kepka wasn't playing that back in that time. But somebody like Brooks Kepka, I would always say my game phase would be dominant aggressive Kepka. Because I walked out on the first T as a professional golfer and I had a pile of ants. I thought everybody was better than me, everybody swung the club better than me. The course was going to be too tough. I was never gonna go underpar. Not great if you're a pro-golfer, right? I would want to walk out on that first T dominant aggressive Kepka because that would have evoked me the kind of thoughts, emotions, feelings, the kind of persona that would give me a better chance to be in control and in charge, hit more A and B shots, and shoot lower scores. So metaphors are very powerful ways for human beings to take control of themselves in the moment on the golf course, in any sport, and in any arena, in many respects.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

So, what actually happens from a mechanical point of view? So you're a bundle of nerves there out there, and then you start chanting this slogan. You're I guess it's at some level it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You go, let's let's act like it's real. What happens to the brain and and what's the transmission mechanism to the physical?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Well, we would strongly hypothesize that the language center of the centers of the brain are connected to the body. So the language that you're using, whether that's thoughts or or self-talk, are influencing your heart rate, influencing the hormones that you are releasing, and influencing muscle tightness. And so when we think of golf, as I mentioned earlier, we're probably thinking a lot of in terms of muscle tightness. So if I have angry ants or frustrated ants or anxious ants, my muscles will probably tighten. And so my capacity to execute my golf swing in the manner that I do on the range or on the practice putting green are going to be diminished. If we think of performance hormones, we're probably whether it doesn't matter if it's uh soccer or basketball or baseball or uh golf, we really want a keen cocktail of adrenaline and testosterone and um dopamine. These are your performance feel-good chemicals, hormones. Cortisol is known to be your stress hormone. So again, language makes a difference. What am I saying to myself? Who am I modeling myself on? You know, am I using these metaphors? That's making a difference to my blood flow, my heart rate, uh, my muscle tightness and tenseness. And so ultimately making a difference to my capacity to execute my stroke and my swing freely through impact. As I said, let's look at this in a concrete way. And we go back to somebody who's known to be one of the world's greatest ever coaches is an Englishman called John Jacobs. If you ask Butch Harmon or Hank Haney or any of these top coaches, who was your inspiration? A lot of them will go back to an Englishman who's now passed away, John Jacobs. And he said, Golf is what the ball does. Can't deny that. What the ball does is what the club tells it to do. And we go back to the five laws of the golf swing club, club face angle, path, approach, centeredness of contact, swing speed. So all of these things are influencing what the golf but go golf ball does. Golf is what the ball does. What the ball does is determined by what the club tells it to do. But the my what my hands, arms, and body is doing through impact is making a difference to those impact factors. And my hormones, my heart rate, my muscle tightness and tenseness, and my blood flow are influencing, and where my attention is is influencing what the club does through impact. So, in many respects, that's the equation here. So it is absolutely critical that a golfer has the capacity to take control and take charge of their mindset as they're playing, to have those ruthless routines and relentless game phase in order to make sure they optimize their uh impact factors and optimize their ability to take control of the golf ball.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

So at the very elite levels where you have lived and have coached, everyone is technically proficient to some level. Of course, there are some outliers, those freaks like Dustin Johnson, uh and uh Tiger Woods. But for the rest of these guys from your experience, where does performance actually separate? Like, what are the key drivers of performance? Why do we see some guys maybe clockhead speeds 115 versus the freaks at 123? But the 115 guy always wins, always closes. Where does performance actually separate at?

Practice Levels That Create Pressure

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I I I think it's so much, I'm not you know, I I think performance is uh multi-dimensionally underpinned. I I think it would be wrong and ridiculous of me. I I'm blessed to spend every day with great sports scientists and um strength and conditioning trainers and and um great coaches, and performance is multi-dimensionally underpinned. So just because you have a 115 versus one, two, three club head speed, you know, more and more that's becoming decisive in the game. Um, but you know, there there are people down at 110, 115 uh club head speed, and they've still got a lot of skill in their hands. They've got great touch around the grain. You know, there's so many factors, playing factors that are underpinning. So that you know, your skills are critical, but underpinning those skills, your capacity to do this under pressure is obviously the things that we've been talking about, you know, to make sure that you're not going to let your aunt dictate your game, that you dictate your game, let's say, to use my terms, in your game phase and executing ruthless routines. Um, you know, and and infiltrating your mindset is also the physical aspect, you know, your your your diet, your your fitness, your um a capacity to to uh manage fatigue. Um the quality of your practice is impinging on your your ability to transfer your practice sessions to the golf course. What we know now from skill acquisition specialists is the quality of your practice makes a difference. Um are you just beating balls or are you actually engaging in highly specified, highly representational uh learning designs? Those things matter now. Um, so I think there are multi, multiple things that are underpinning performance, but obviously the capacity to perform under pressure is heavily influenced by mindset. So that's a huge factor here. Um, just because you're swinging it at high swing speed doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna go and win. It's an advantage, but there are other factors at play.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

You know, you talked about practicing like how you want to play. I I often tell my players if your practice doesn't represent what you want out on the field of play, you will pay a translation tax. So, how do you structure routines so that your players can train under tournament like pressure? It's it's very difficult, obviously, to like, oh you know, standard pretending you've got this butt to win the master when it's just for a can of cook. How do you closely simulate that sort of pressure?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, so I I'll I'll tell you the system that I use, and there's lots of different ways. And I I I love everything you're saying, and I completely agree with you. And and I think the uh the the one thing I've learned over the years is in many respects, uh I I say to my clients, look, you are always practicing mindset. I say every single shot counts, and you're always practicing mindset. So always do practice practice mindset. So even if you're just working on your swing, so let's call that level one, technical practice alone. You are still working on technique and mindset. Now, that might be working on you, might be working on a technical aspect, but you are pinpointing your focus of attention. So you're still working on your capacity to pinpoint your focus of attention, even if if it's on a specific aspect of your swing. Um, you if you're working on your technique, you can still work on a confident swing or a free swing or a committed swing. So I, if we call this level one, which I tend to, level one practice is technique alone. There is still a mindset element to the to this. And if you're practicing on your technique alone and you're spraying it all over the place, you're hitting A shots, B shots, C shots, and D shots, a lot of destructive shots. I still want you to be in your game phase because I want you to manage your emotions here. I want you to squash your ants even at level one. So, can you see what I'm saying here? You're always working your mindset. Now, if that's level one, level two is technique plus routine. So that's where I want you to, you know, step back, change your clubs, change vary your the clubs you're hitting. And I'm talking about being on a range here. Step back, work on that walk into the ball, work on your setup over the ball, and still work on your technique. No problem with that, but make sure there's an element of your routine in there as well. Moving on to and still working your game phase. Moving on to level three could be technique plus your routine plus a game. So that might be, you know, you're creating fairways, you're restricting, you're constraining the fairway or constraining a green, you know, you're setting yourself a little objective here. So you can still work on your technique, though. You're still working on something related to your technique, plus mind this plus routine, plus a game. So we're adding on representation here. It's starting to look like uh what you've got on the golf course. Um, you're starting to add a little bit of pressure. Level four, technique plus routine, plus a game, plus a consequence. And so that consequence, you can have some fun with a uh a mate or a spouse. Uh, maybe you know, with a spouse, if you don't achieve something, you've got to wash the dishes that night. Maybe you wash the dishes all the time, but you know what I mean. Uh, maybe you've got to wash your mate's car. Um, there's all kinds of things that you can have as a consequence. Obviously, monetary things are obvious things, but you know, we don't always want to gamble money. So uh we want to be responsible here. But level one, level two, level three, level four, we're adding on level four a consequence. Um, and uh a consequence can be I worked with a tour player once who would would practice on a busy range. And this was quite a shy tour player and didn't like people looking at him so much. And yet what he did was he played a game where the consequence was if he didn't achieve something, he had to do some press-ups. And that literally created some ants, some automatic negative thoughts, emotions, feelings, because he didn't want people looking because people would be looking at him. Why are you doing press-ups? You're looking a bit of an idiot here. So that created ants in his mind. Level five is taking it onto the golf course, and maybe having a consequence, maybe having a game against uh uh a buddy, and maybe there's a there's a there's a there's a consequence to to losing the game. So what you're doing is you're increasingly with each level getting closer to what it looks like on the golf course. So it's not that there's never a time to just work on technique alone, but it's recognizing when you are working on technique, there's still mindset factors in that each shot counts. And the last thing to say on this is that variability here is important in terms of don't beat balls for hours. Do this, spend 20 minutes on the range, then maybe go to the putting green. Spend a little bit of time then, then maybe onto the pitching area, then maybe back to the putting green, then maybe back onto the range if you've got a few hours spare. So you are engaging in variability, randomness, maybe you you are uh practicing like it is on the golf course much more. Uh, you're varying things up a lot. This to me is much better learning design than simple simply I'm gonna go out there and beat balls on the range.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

So it sounds like if elite athletes hit a psychological ceiling, it's because of a lack of determination to go through the different stages.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I love what you said there. I think discipline plays a big part. It's very difficult to take each practice shot seriously. That's energy sapping. And so great quality practice can be probably done in three hours top. I was beating balls for eight hours a day. But if I reflect back, I wasn't taking each shot seriously enough, in my opinion. And so, and that's not to suggest that there's never a time for it's not beating balls, but a good amount of balls to build up reps. I'm not saying there's never a time, but I still think that's at level one. You still want to be really directing your focus of attention, really feeling the movements you want to make, plenty of practice swings. So that is energy sapping practice. You probably can't hit 100, 200 balls doing that. So that's something to consider.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

It's probably a good way to end this podcast with you by talking about mental toughness. Based on what you just said, mental toughness simply is the discipline to do what you've trained to do even when you don't feel like doing it.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

I think that's a wonderful definition of mental toughness. We talk about mental toughness or mental strength or mental skill. I love to use the term mental skill, but I think they're all relevant and maybe vary a little bit between each one. And I think I love what you've said there. I think it's being mentally tough on the practice ground, practicing the mental toughness as well. And then when you get out on the golf course, it's being tough enough to use my language, to stick to your ruthless routines, your relentless game phase, to optimise A and B shots, minimize C and D shots to shoot the lowest possible score. And when you're able to shoot that lowest possible score, that score still might be high because it might be a day when you've not been at your best because you've got over 300 bones in your body, 305 bones. You've got loads of hormones floating around your system, but lowest possible. So I want great players to be able to walk off the course and go, I shot 75 today. I'm disappointed with that score. But you know what? In a way, I'm pleased with that score because that's the lowest number I could have shot. Because I optimised A and B, minimized C and D by executing ruthless routines in a relentless game phase. I was tough out there. I played golf tough, which is my book, Golf Tough.

Where To Find Dan Abrahams

SPEAKER_03 45:51

The book is Golf Tough. The new one is called Compete. The podcast is the spot psych show. Dan, let us let our listeners know where they can find out more about your works and the social media handles these.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Thank you so much, Justin. So, firstly, a big thanks to you for giving me the opportunity to come on your wonderful podcast. I'm appreciative and uh grateful for that. Um, you can find me. Um, danabrah's.com is my website where you can find all my books, links to my books, which are available on all good online retailers. Um I have several ex channels, to be honest, at Dan Abraham77 is probably my main one, but my golf one is at Abraham's Golf, at Abraham's Golf, but also at Dan Abraham77. Uh at uh Dan Abraham's excuse me, at Dan Abraham Soccer, um, which is my Facebook, but that is still multi-sport. Uh at Abrahamsports is Instagram, and just find me on LinkedIn Dan Abrahams, where I post every single day uh with my rambles. So thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Jesse, any pattern questions for Dan?

SPEAKER_02 47:16

No, you that everything was covered. I really appreciate you coming on, Dan. That was quite nice. Thank you. Um I'm sure it's gonna inspire uh more curiosity for our listeners, and hopefully that the information that you provided will uh will help clear up all folks' blind spots.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

Yeah, I'm sure they will. And I'm pretty certain that our listeners will go down this rabbit hole with Dan Abrahams, much like I did six years ago.

unknown 47:49

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Gentlemen, I can flies.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

It does, it does too quick, too quick.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Thank you once again, Dan. Cheers, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Thanks, guys. I'm so pleased we got it done. Let me know when it's up, and I'll put it out there.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

Cheers. Thank you.