Your Inner Critic Is A Tool If You Treat It Like One. In Conversation with Alex Rose

We sit down with Alex Rose to talk about why golf exposes our inner world so quickly and why that can actually be healing. We dig into identity, the inner critic, and how self-talk shapes our nervous system and our ability to play free under pressure.
• the difference between a golf player and a golf lover
• why the course reveals patterns that everyday life can hide
• separating identity from performance and the scorecard
• reframing the inner critic as useful feedback instead of truth
• using awareness, gratitude, and inner dialogue to reset fast
• why words hit the nervous system and change your physiology
• simple on-course experiments to shift mindset and build belief
• expectations versus possibilities and what alignment feels like
• keeping perspective so you can work hard and still have fun
Alex has graciously given the green light to put his information on, and he's available to be worked with one-on-one. http://www.alexrose.life/ alex@alexrose.life

Transcript

Welcome And Alex Rose Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:06

This is Jesse Perryman from the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast, welcoming you to another edition today. Today's a very special day. Uh, a very close, good friend of mine uh becoming uh a brother and a and a and a dear, deep, deep friend. His name is Alex Rose. He is an integrative life coach, and he resides on the big island of Hawaii. And you're gonna really want to tune in to hear what he has to say about the game of golf, his relationship with it, and what his findings are, and what it means from a deep emotional, psychological, and a spiritual connection to get the best parts of ourselves integrated so that we can go and perform the best that we can we can be out there. Alex, it's about time, my friend. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Oh man, it's a it's a pleasure and a privilege. Let's get about damn time. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

We've been talking about this for a while, and here we are. So um, integrative life coach. Let's talk about that, what you do on the big island and how you help folks.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Uh yeah, sure. Well, I have a master's degree from Naropa University in mindfulness-based transpersonal counseling. And uh, after I got that degree, I moved out here, hung a shingle, um, started meeting with folks in my community. And uh yeah, I just really enjoy I'm an innately curious person. And I find the human experience and the human evolution growth process to just be one of the most fascinating areas of inquiry. Um and so I love what I do. I love I love hanging out with folks and asking them deep questions and learning how their mind works and learning how they orient themselves within the great grand existential cosmos of human existence. And um I enjoy working with with couples and discovering the the multifaceted uh depths of human communication and and interpersonal relating. Um and more than all that, I love golf. I freaking love golf, man. And that's really what uh you know, when we moved out here to Hawaii, my wife was like, uh after about two months, she's like, did we move here for Hawaii? Did we move here for the 365 golf and the beautiful golf courses? And I think maybe unconsciously that that might have been the real drive.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, I don't blame you. I don't I don't blame you. Well, thank you for that intro. And uh folks, Alex is a pretty keen golfer himself. What's your what's your handicap these days? You bet a four?

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Three yeah, I hover around a four or five, depending on um how honest I'm being with myself, how many gimme's I'm taking. So I think we'll probably talk about that a little bit today.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Absolutely. So um, not only being in the uh the mental health care uh space, Alex is also a fellow golf fiend. So uh, you know, most of Alex and I's conversation are about how golf uh mirrors life and what's going on beneath the surface. I would almost call us uh golf golf philosophers, golf philosophers, fellow travelers in this uh in this in this realm.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So uh, you know, let's let's get right

Golf As Mirror And Safe Container

SPEAKER_00 3:39

in. Um let's get right in since we're we're diving in. Uh what I'm gonna I'm gonna go off one of the questions that we have written here. So when most people think about golf, they think about a swing. But the longer I've played, the more I've realized golf is really a mirror. It shows us who we are. Do you think that's true?

SPEAKER_03 3:58

I do. Um, I do agree with that. And you know, obviously it's uh become almost like a cliche uh in the golf psychology world world of how much our psyches uh show themselves to us on the golf course. Um, but I almost I for me, I almost like to take it a little bit farther. And I one of the distinctions in my mind uh is when I'm when I invite people to play golf, or I invite you to play golf, is I try to figure out right away, is this a golf player that I'm joining on the course, or is this a golf lover? Um, because I feel like they are two different ways to approach the game. A golf player is is there because it's it's a wonderful recreational activity, it's fun, it's social. Maybe it's a reason to have a couple of beers on a Sunday and be outside with your buddies. Um, but I think for for guys like you and I, and I imagine a lot of your listeners, um, we would fall into the category of golf lovers, people who view the game from a holistic lens of um a practice, a life practice. Um I feel like for you and I sometimes even borders on the spiritual practice. Right. Uh I would I would go so far as in my own system to refer to golf as a as a Tao, as a you know, from the Tao dign, Taoism, the a way, a way of of um of uh living your life with with principles and virtues and values and morals, a way to develop yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and relationally, because the community the communal aspect of golf is is present there. Um so is golf a mirror? 100% yes. And is it also like a dojo, a church, uh, uh uh a family living room? Uh, you know, it's it's it could be so many things. And I think that's what is so wonderful about it is how much we are able to how far we can take our relationship with golf. It can be so many different things. It can be simple, it can be it can be fun, or it can be these other layers, these deeper layers.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

What a great answer. I mean, it's that's that's very powerful. Uh really great statements there, Alex. You know, what what really does, you know, and that begs the next question, and it segues perfectly into it. You know, what does golf really reveal about us that sometimes life hides?

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Totally. Uh you know, I I actually had this, I was thinking about this uh my last round of golf a few days ago where I was like, wow, I feel like um I feel like when I'm on the golf course, I really learn a lot about myself, I discover a lot about myself. Why can't I why don't I uh feel that way after a day of work? Um, you know, my day-to-day life. And I think the the the insight I had in that moment was my life to life, my everyday is ultimately uh a point of survival to an extent. You know, you gotta you gotta work to make money, you gotta uh maintain your relationship so you're you're not alone and uh you have community, you got to make sure there's food on the table, you gotta take care of your pets, you gotta take care of your family. Like there's life is is pretty serious. Pretty serious shit. Is that good? By the way, I'm the fucking.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Okay, you know, uh it's pretty serious shit. And and golf is is um, you know, when you boil it down, is one of the most ridiculous uh wastes of time you can possibly engage in. You know, that's six hours of of of driving to the golf course and swinging a metal club at a tiny little ball. I mean, uh it's the the paradox of of how it ends up being such a healing practice is is really quite funny. But I think because the stakes are so low on the golf course, but they feel so high, like they the stakes on the golf course feel as high as the stakes in real life, but we know they're not. It almost creates like a safe container. I think it creates a safe container, it certainly creates a safe container for myself to really like look at things uh and look at my reactions, look at my behaviors, look at my my processes, um my identities, the the you know the performance side of things, uh in a I don't want to say critical, but maybe in an honest way, in a kind of like a revealed way. That is, I think when if I were to try to apply that to my everyday, I would just be paralyzed.

unknown 8:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

I wouldn't be able to get anything done.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Um, I would just be in my own process all the time. And and I think that you know, therapy, life coaching offices are another safe place to do that kind of work. Um, but but your office job is not, and your family dinner table is not. But golf certainly is.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Wow, what a great answer. You you know, and that that again, I mean, that's just a perfect we're we're segueing perfect right now into something that I know I've struggled with, and you and I have spoken to about this in past conversations about our identity.

Identity Wounds And The Scorecard

SPEAKER_00 9:31

And uh and why do we attach so much of our identity on the golf course to how we perform?

SPEAKER_03 9:44

I mean, I I I kind of want to hear your your thoughts on that first. I I have some thoughts too, but like uh your your process around this is pretty interesting in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Well for me it's perspective. And and it really goes back to growing up, you know, it's like a lot of these uh incorrect ideologies come from wounding in childhood. So uh I was it wasn't safe for me to perform and be okay with whatever happened because it it wasn't I mean, as children, we don't have the prefrontal cortex, we don't have the neurobiology to ask ourselves objective questions and to put things in perspective. You know, we take things literally. So uh my identity was formed early on with based on performance. If I performed well, say in little league baseball, if I went three for four, uh I was you know one of the one of the big men on campus or one of the big kids on campus, you know, I was one of the cool kids. But if I went oh for four, I was a scrub. You know, playing football, same thing, or if you know if you dropped a pass or whatever at a crucial moment, you were a loser and you sucked. Versus getting coached up saying, well, why did that happen? You know, did you run the right route? Did you do something you know incorrect in the admin prior to? Uh, and let's correct that. So it's more of a mechanism, it's more of a mechanical thing than than an identity thing. It's like, okay, so I'm gonna get love and acceptance and appreciation if I perform well, but if I don't perform well, I'm gonna be casted out. So for me, the healing with that has been recognizing that first and that awareness that, hey, you know what, I have people that love me dearly, no matter what happens on and you know, off the golf course, and I'm gonna go ahead and go with that and choose to uh through some healing around that, and through some off-the-course work, that when I get on the golf course, especially in in competition and tournament play, that I'm gonna look at things objectively, and I'm not gonna have the identity wrapped around it. And it took a lot of work for me to separate that, and it's still work for me. Um you know, if I go out and shoot, you know, 75 or 76 in a golf tournament, my typically my first response is, oh, here we go again, you know, another bad start, or here we go again, you know, I'm putting in all this work, and I'm not, you know, I'm not seeing the uh you know the PL on it, you know, or I'm not getting the the the you know the the the reward from putting in all the hard work. And um so with that for me, separating my identity from performance on the golf course still is a work in progress, but I think where I'm getting at with what I'm saying is separating who I am, you know, who I really am. You know, if I go out and shoot 75, that doesn't mean I'm a shitty person. That just means I shot 75.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

You know, let's go back to which which by the way would would be would I would be over the moon shooting a 75.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Well, you know, uh a lot of years of competition though, Alex, and and uh a lot of a lot of blood, sweat, and tears poured into the game. But uh, but you know, and I and I know that that holds true for the guys and girls that play at the highest level. And uh, and and in my opinion, you know, kind of cleaning up my side of this conversation with identity. I I look at Scotty Scheffler and his identity is not wrapped around how he plays. And I think when we observe Rory in the last couple of years, Rory McElroy, back-to-back masters champion, that there was a shift there where he is no longer identified solely with what he is doing on the golf course. And I believe that it's freed him up tremendously. I was at the Masters, I saw him play, and there was a level of surrender out there, but he was fully present in the moment and engaged, and he was trying his his ass off, but there was almost a vibe of peace around him, and uh it was palpable and impressive and something to be learned from. Uh uh, I would love to ask Rory that question of what shifted because you could feel it. And uh and but something had to have shifted before he won his first masters because uh I believe that if we get identified too much with what we do, I mean, we're gonna chase it away. You know, I want to, you know, I want to be identified as being the number one player in at my club or in the world or in my foresome or whatever. And it's like, well, that very thought ideology is gonna chase it further down the road, and you're never gonna catch it.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

So I I I find this uh this is such an interesting question.

The Inner Critic And How To Respond

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Um, I think in my mind, um this this conversation uh I want to take this conversation in the direction of the of what our inner critic is. Absolutely. And and I think maybe underneath your question of like what how to what was the question you guys, you know, how how is our identity tied up with our needs to succeed?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Why is our yeah, why is our identity so wrapped up in performance?

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Performance, right, right, right. I think underneath that you could ask, why are so many people fully identifying with their inner critic? And I think um that freedom that maybe you are you saw in in Rory at the masters is that kind of release from that identity. And the thing, so when I when I talk about the inner critic with with clients, the way I the best way I I feel it to navigating this topic is to see the inner critic as actually a very valuable cognitive function, a very valuable psychological mechanism. Your inner critic is something that develops in you, you know, sometime in your late childhood, early teens. Um, as you rightly pointed out, you started to notice it around the time you're playing sports and your performance on the field translates into your social status amongst your friends. Um and I think deeper than that, the inner critic is is uh is extremely useful for developing human, uh coming into uh ultimately uh social human universe where we have to get along and and we and we have to fit in to an extent. Um and so that inner critic is really useful. The inner critic is the thing that keeps me from you know running down the street with with my clothes off or screaming profanities uh in the middle of a restaurant. Um it's the thing that uh that inspires me to want to uh be a productive member of society um and want to be uh a good husband and a good friend. Um it's the it's the thing that inspires me to want to be good at what I do.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

And so I think it's very useful. I think the where where it becomes dangerous is when that voice in our head becomes the only voice that we hear. And I think a lot of people, especially people who experience trauma in their in their childhood and teenage years. Um, and I mean you could even trauma little T or big T, right? Like your experience of uh being uh rejected or judged by your friends for your performance on the football field is is a little T trauma or big T trauma, depending on how it affected you.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Um I think when we experience trauma for whatever reason, our instinct is to want to uh identify with that inner critic more and more and more and more. Right? Maybe if I if I just if I just listen to what everyone else has to say about me and I and I compare myself to what they have to say about me, maybe I'll fit in better, maybe I'll be accepted, maybe I'll be loved, like you said. But the the evolution from that, and I think every every adult human has a responsibility to eventually take this step. You get to a point where you become aware of that voice, you become aware of actually how little of it is your voice and how much of it are the voices you heard throughout your life. Yeah. And you start to see it as a useful tool, but just that a tool, not the central guiding principle, not the central, not the north star of your inner psyche.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

And for me, the way I like to work with it, and I'm I'm a pretty, as I'm sure you can already, as I'm sure your listeners can tell, I'm a I'm a relatively cognitive person, and we can talk about different different channels of not of knowing and experience, but I'm a pretty cognitive person. For me, when I notice that inner critic voice is there and I'm aware of it, what I what I tell it in my head, I go in my head and I say, thank you. That's very helpful information. I really appreciate that perspective. I will take it into account uh moving forward. Yeah, I will, I will, I will, uh, I will consider it seriously, and I'll consider the usefulness of that perspective seriously. Um, and then I kind of like mentally like put the inner critic back on the on the tool uh shelf and put it away. It's like okay, it did its job, it gave me the hard feedback, it gave me the perspective, the awareness that has served me all my life to be a functioning member of society and a community member. Right. Um, but it's just one perspective. And then I come back and I try to connect to um, you know, I say my heart, but um, you can say the capital S self or the true self or the higher self, however you want to say, I try to connect back to that voice, which doesn't really speak in words, actually. Um, it speaks in multiple different channels. And I say, okay, with that information that we just received, how does that align or misalign with what's what I'm feeling in that uh more authentic inner channel? Am I making sense?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Absolutely. I mean, that's that's uh I mean, those are powerful things. I think that Alex and in in in your opinion, um, it does it take a certain level of awareness to have that objectivity in identifying that inner critic, especially in the moment, because our inner critic shows up a lot of times when we don't want it to. And, you know, talking about performance on the golf course, especially in competition, you know, that inner critic shows up if you miss a three-footer for par. Uh you know, um, how can we reframe that? I mean, you you spoke like how can we simplify the reframing of that in the moment?

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Well, I I like you said it starts with awareness. And and maybe this is my training in uh you know mindfulness-based uh practice. But I I always I always tell people, and I always remind myself, if you if you are aware of what's happening, if you're aware of the pattern, if you're aware of the voice, um, you've already accomplished the most important, most difficult, most meaningful step. Um and going back to your comment about forgiveness, and I know maybe we'll go into that deeper later on, but um I I'm I can get to forgiveness so much faster when I acknowledge the miracle of my awareness. You know. So I always start with a big pat on the shoulder, basically. You know, if I miss that three footer and I go, ah, you fucking suck, you're such a loser. And I go, oh, hey, you know, uh there's that, there it is. a hello inner critic hello again um i immediately feel a sense of pride and joy at having caught it oh you know good job right good job made wow and i and that already already creates a somewhat of a for me creates a kind of an in inner nervous system reset right away wow um but if it's you know if it's really pestering you or if it's uh you know if it's something that you're actively working on in a really intention uh intentional mindful way then one of the ways to deal with it like I said is to just have a conversation with it like really I mean if you're a cognitive uh person like me uh go go into that inner dialogue and have a conversation with it I think you do this too Jesse we talked about speaking to the inner child um it feels kind of silly the first time you do it it feels a little bit like you know um why am I I'm talking to myself this is so weird how does how is this going to accomplish anything right right but um if you if you exist in that channel of language it it actually works to just have that inner conversation and it's and you know what's amazing you know what what's a really shocking discovery is when it responds when you get to that point where you're having an inner dialogue with yourself with a part of yourself your inner critic and then it has something to say you know like yeah I shut the fuck up you don't know me you don't know me you don't listen right that's it's so you just you just continue that conversation and I always come back to you know thank you gratitude awareness and then gratitude thank you for thank you for that thank you for telling me that that mattered yeah you know I I appreciate that that's valuable information for me boy that is that is real end time redistribution of energy because uh you know you can you can spiral out there easily you know especially if you attach yourself to that inner critic and you let that inner critic like you said so beautifully uh a moment ago about if that's the only voice inside your head and uh and you're and you're obeying it and you're listening to it.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

I mean that for me the whole theme for me and uh is how I talk to myself and being aware of that inner critic and reframing that it's not demonizing it. It's uh you know there's a part of what people in my opinion fail to realize uh with the inner critic especially on the golf course is that it it got you there. There's a part of that voice that got you there. There's a part of that voice that got you to hit balls that got you to work on your putting your chipping and all the sacrifices that you make to become the best player that you can be for most people that listen to this podcast. So there it needs to be handled in my opinion at least my experience a little bit with some kid gloves. Like hey you know um what is it saying? What is it truly saying and what are the words behind it? And let's let's go have that inner dialogue to find out what those words truly are because that's getting to the root the source of why that that nick keeps happening or why the pattern of self-communication continues to happen in the scenario where you know you miss an important putt or you miss a three footer for Par Bertie or whatever it is. And um you know me reframing it is like well I mean it happens. Scotty Scheffler missed three misses three footers. Denny McCarthy, Max Graserman the guys that are the best putters in the world they don't miss them very often but they do. So what exempts me from it it's a part of the game.

Words That Train The Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 25:35

So I mean even just a simple thing like that but the one thing that you said that I I didn't realize and and maybe your listeners uh might might uh identify with this as well is how powerful our words are whether they're on the surface or beneath the surface and how they affect our whole biophysiology so let's let's get into that a little bit just out of my own curiosity alex why do words affect us in the most profound ways even if we're not aware of it yeah it's a pretty interesting question isn't it um you know where my where my mind goes first is to one of the fundamental truths that I personally buy into which is that ultimately we are nervous systems before we're minds our minds are built on top of our nervous systems and uh learning how to uh learning what our nervous systems are and learning how we how to interact with our nervous systems um how to support them how to build uh scaffolding around them um is I think probably one of the most valuable human pursuits any individual could could undergo.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

And you look at a lot of these these um traditions wisdom based traditions a lot of this about the nervous system meditation yoga prayer practice physical practices chanting dancing all those things are are technologies that allow us to directly interface with our nervous system on top of that is our brain and for whatever reason and I don't know what the what why I don't know what the answer is it's it probably has to do with the fact that we are social communicative creatures and we've learned to survive and evolve through communication our brains I think at least my brain certainly primarily operates through the language channel. Like I said there's different channels I think some people are are um much more in the in the in like the the the kinetic kinetic what's the word kinetic kinesthetic channel the the the felt channel the physical channel a lot of people like my wife are very much in the emotional channel channel where where the their their body speaks to them through through emotional content.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

My brain operates in the language channel I call it the cognitive channel and I think uh I think that ultimately that that channel that that language channel is communicating directly with my nervous system whether I realize it or not both ways I I know that that inner critic is is much much louder when I'm in a sympathetic nervous system state where I'm activated where I'm a little anxious a little nervous a little excited um I know that that channel uh that the the the pace of my inner dialogue is faster in that channel um and so if my inner cognitive language dialogue channel is a reflection of my nervous system then of course the conscious response response to that with my own thoughts is also going to interface with my nervous system so in short I my answer to your question and and this is all just a working hypothesis I don't think anyone knows what the answer is yet um it's that when the way you talk to yourself is is like like prayer like breath work like chanting like dance it's a it's a it's a actually a a a technique a skill a technology of nervous system interface nervous system interaction that can be trained wow what anything just that that's an incredible incredibly powerful answer and that makes an extreme ton of sense it really does and and I think that at least for me listening and uh you know being on this journey with everyone else um that's useful that we actually can become aware of the words that we choose to speak to ourselves and it is a choice once we become aware uh and then we can reframe that and have a direct interface with our nervous system uh you know scripture would call it speaking life into yourself uh and other traditions would probably echo those same that same sentiment um yeah I mean I just laugh and think to as you were talking I was thinking to myself it was like would I talk to people that I love the way that I talk to myself you know I'm so glad I I'm glad you said that because um you know and I I want to I also want to be aware that uh as deep as this conversation goes just yeah I want to make sure that people listen to this feel like they have something to do afterwards you know feel like they have something to try.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Sure and and and my when I work with clients uh I always go to this idea of experimentation is your greatest asset. Right. Just experiment sometimes uh you need to uh experiment with doing the exact opposite you know I think a lot of a lot of golf coaches you've had on your on your podcast have talked about this idea of training the opposite movement yeah um so you understand what that feels like so you can understand the movement that's getting you in trouble what that feels like and and find somewhere in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

I think the same thing applies to working on our brains, working on ourselves, working on relationships to ourselves.

Experiments That Build Self Belief

SPEAKER_03 31:38

So in that regard, um I want to share a story about a client I had who had one of the most vicious inner critics I've ever met. And and just to paint the picture a little bit we're talking about you know 200 plus pound fully tatted ex biker. That's we're talking about all right he was he's no joke kind of guy tough dude. And he would come in and sit with sit with me and it was really clear that um you know the the way he talked himself was just really cruel and and harsh and mean. So we did an experiment one time where um I said okay you know just just tell me what the inner critic's saying and and I'm just gonna write it down. So he started I started writing down everything he was saying. And you know I'm I'm a loser I'm pathetic I have no motivation I have no discipline um you know whatever whatever and after about two or three minutes I paused him and I said okay I'm I'm gonna tell you everything you just told me as if like I believe it about who you are. So I start I start going I start saying you know you're such a fucking you're such a little bitch and you have you have no backbone and whatever your your tattoos are ugly and everybody's scared of you and like whatever whatever and after like not even like halfway through the list he literally stood up and he was like don't you fucking talk to me like that like you got really activated and really upset.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Wow um and it was it was yeah it was one of those uh that was one of example of an experiment where just externalizing that voice um really helped them realize uh just how out of alignment it is with with how he genuinely feels about himself that that that talk going back to the higher self that true self that center challenge channel um hearing it externalized made him realize how how far of alignment it is from so for someone on the golf course who maybe wants to work on their on their inner critic um experiment with it so for example um go out there one day and just be like you know what like for today I'm gonna be the most toxic positive version of myself that's ever existed you know like get out there miss the three foot and go it's okay buddy you're great you know you're a superhero right like like just go complete opposite inner like go full on cheesy right like like doe eyed lover boy to yourself right and then the next time go out there and do the opposite you know go out there and just be like you think you're hard you think you're hard on yourself like turn it up to 11 you know like I want you to stripe a drive down the middle of the fairway and go it's still only 250 right you you're pathetic and weak right you know and just see what that feels like or or if if four hours of that feels like a lot then just do it for two holes or even better oscillate try a hole where you're like Mickey Mouse and then try another hole where you're you know in Dante's inferno right right and uh and just really just like you would on the range where you're you know if you're if you're working on fixing a slice try hitting a big draw pole hook right um apply that same principle to to how you would experiment with working on yourself uh in the inner in the inner domain well uh that's that's that's a great those are great suggestions I'm gonna try that and just see what the experience is you know uh you learned something for sure oh for sure you know it's like my experience with this with this topic right now Alex has been you know the the awareness of catching the thought uh catching the the inner critic piping in and uh that that's been good just to be aware of that has been good and then to speak life into myself and I really do like the comment about nervous system interface and that is a technology and I liken it is to when when you're in meditation or when you're focusing on something you know if you're if you're practicing the you know breathing through the Dantian if you will just focusing on on uh you know breathing through the belly button and if your mind drifts you just continuously bring it back to that exercise and it's the same thing in how we speak to ourselves and how we interact with the inner critic. And the more that we practice it the more that the more that awareness muscle increases and and the less of an emotional charge happens when you hear it it's like uh it's it's awareness it's working that muscle out and it's healing at the same time and uh for me it's helped me to get underneath to some of the the uh you know the erroneous uh beliefs that I had about myself through that exercise so it's been extremely enlightening and very powerful and it's been quite frankly the most powerful tool or thing that I've ever worked on including my golf swing. I don't think Scotty Scheffler and Rory McElroy or Nellie Corda or anybody who's very proficient at this game is calling MF themselves and and uh you know telling them they suck and they're they're losers and they're never going to win or amount to anything when they're like 10th in the world or something you know I mean I don't think the the inner dialogue is the same. And for years I've always thought like what is it between uh somebody in my opinion who can be on the PGA tour who has all of the physical tangibles all of the measurables they hit it a bajillion miles they hit it dead straight they hit it solidly on the face most of the time they've got they're great putters they have fantastic wedge players but yet they're not out there and this could be a very part of that phenomenon of how they speak to themselves and what through that language uh that internal communication how they view the world and how they view themselves and uh I'm I'm convinced that that's a big part of it. It may not be the only part but it's but it's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

You know how we well this is interesting you said something earlier about um you know it the more you chase this idea of becoming something the farther you push it down the road. You're right you said something along those lines. Yeah and I think that poses an interesting question which is what's the difference between paralyzing expectation and self-belief because I do think I I do think there's a distinction and and maybe that's part of the you know why some of those players are talking about don't make it is because they have the skills but they don't have the belief.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Interesting. They have the expectations but they don't have the belief can that belief be reframed or and uh reorganized by how we speak to each other and how if we become aware of that said belief can it be changed I I think it can I mean I I I think there's there's a lot of kind of moving pieces in this conversation that around this I think this idea of um you know reflecting on what healthy expectations are what appropriate expectations are I don't expect to shoot for myself 75 every time I go out um if I did I would I would probably not want to play golf very often um but I also believe that I could I also believe in that it's possible that I'm capable of that actually I I know that I know I'm capable of that I know that that that's a possibility um I just don't expect it um but I guess to answer your question I think I again I'm I'm speaking as somebody who operates largely in the cognitive channel in the language channel the narrative that I'm actively telling about myself really matters when it comes to my experience of life it really matters when it comes to how my nervous system shows up day to day and so I have to do a lot of work personally myself in that inner narrative the story I'm telling about my life and about who I am as a person.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

And that work involves therapy you know talking is talking to professionals and and and externalizing that narrative so I can look at it. It involves uh journaling it involves deep meaningful conversations with people I trust you know you're one of those people um so I do think yes I think there's lots of work that can be done when it comes to believing in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

And I think the way you talk to yourself is a part of that I think uh rearranging your expectations appropriately is a part of that I I like the way that you reframed expectations with possibilities like you know it is possible to go out and play well and you we do have the capability of that we do have the skill of that but the expectation of it uh it almost puts more pressure it's like it feels like oh I I I expect to go out and play well every day and but what happens if you don't you know because I mean golf in and of itself is it's a perfect game played by imperfect people and we don't have perfect conditions all the time I mean you live on the big island you're dealing with trade winds in the afternoon and it blows out there I live in that's true I live in California I I live in on the Monterey Peninsula it blows out there I mean you've got uneven lives you've got different conditions your body may feel weird you know you might wake up and you might be your neck might be stiff or something and uh you know even with that I I can literally feel in my body an energetic shift between expectations versus possibilities and and the acceptance of that particular day and just going with it. I mean I had Lydia Co on the pod a few years ago and I love Lydia she keeps it very very real and she's one of the best players to ever walk the earth and she told me she said if I wake up and my neck's stiff or I'm not feeling it or I'm not feeling good that day I just go with it and just let it be I'm just like whoa that's so incredibly simple yet very profound. I mean she said it as like duh like I mean how easy can you make it on yourself? And uh you know through my experience most of my golfing experience not all but most I've made it about as difficult on myself as possible. And uh only recently in all of our conversations and you've helped me out a lot with that uh you know the detaching identity from performance in the way that I have spoken to myself speak life and uh and and with that exercise of going to the extremes uh I think that's really powerful and the parallel when when when one of us or anybody who's listening takes a lesson and you you know if you're if you're getting the club stuck inside and you're flipping your hands at it as a result, you know, a cognizant golf coach is going to have you do what the opposite what that feels like. So that the brain, the body and the nervous system have the two templates to choose from in the middle. And uh I that's that was a great comment and a great suggestion by the way. So thank you for that Alex a lot.

Perspective That Makes Golf Fun Again

SPEAKER_03 43:53

I I got another uh a great experiment on my to do list actually this week um that Of my good friends who's very like-minded, like us, suggested, is uh I'm gonna play from the Reds, I'm gonna play from the ladies' tees, and um I am gonna go out there and I'm gonna break par. I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna drive the greens and I'm gonna make lots of berries, uh, and I'm gonna break par. And I'm doing it because he said he made this comment. He said, Man, every time you you have a good round going, you get scared. You you get you get you get scared. You don't you don't believe that you can you don't believe that you uh have earned that low score, you don't believe that you can keep it going for 18 holes. So he's like, I think you should just go out there and have a couple of like you know, 70s and 60s nines and 71s from the ladies' tease, and just know that like man, golf is golf, doesn't matter how how long the hole is, golf is golf, it's still hard. And uh I did it, I can do it, I can break par. Um, and then when you start stepping back tease, it's just it that that that belief component is maybe more in alignment with the expectation component. So, you know, a thought that I had um this just popped in my mind when you were talking that the difference between expectations uh and possibilities and beliefs. I'm sure you've had this moment. I know I've had uh I chase this moment, I'm sure all of our listeners chase this on the golf course. That moment where you're standing over the ball and you're expecting it to do something, you feel the inner possibility of your ability to execute on that, and you believe it's gonna happen, and then it happens. And that's that's the moment where all of your buddies go, oh, he's coming back tomorrow for more, you know, that'll keep you coming back, right? It's like that that experience where those three things are in alignment. So I think there's an interesting question there of you know, how do we how do we get our expectations, what we know is possible within ourselves, and our belief of what we're capable of to all come into alignment at the same time across 65 golf shots over 18 holes.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yep, absolutely. In theory, yeah, in theory. Well, I mean, it's being exemplified out there, you know, and I I do believe that uh there's some folks out there that leave breadcrumbs if we're if we're attuned to it and we're uh uh observing.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Um what do you feel like are are the the breadcrumbs that you you get you're you've are most excited to have discovered so far in your journey?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Um I I I listen to Scotty, his his his press conferences, Scotty Shuffler, number one player in the world, and what he has to say, he seems to have things in its proper perspective. But he also works his tail off. You know, that guy is working his tail off. He practices and plays and works at it and works out and uh is with his coach quite a bit. Um that that showed me that if you if you align, if you're in alignment with those three possibilities, those three planes, if you will, that you are gonna stack the deck in your favor. Is it gonna happen every day? No. But Scotty has that.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Sometimes the wind's gonna gust.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

You know, you hey, how about if you go out and you shoot whatever you shoot, you play the best round of your life and you get beat. I mean, are you gonna be upset with that? Or are you gonna be like, I just played the best round of my life, let's go, let's go celebrate that type thing. So having it in its proper perspective uh for me has been a real uh uh revelation. And it's still a moving target. Uh, you know, it's still a work in progress, and it probably will be for a while, but that's okay. You know, I I think for me, uh, and uh somebody very close to me said that you can work hard and you can still have a really good time. You know, you could still have a good time with it and have fun. And uh and it was getting to the point last year where I just wasn't having any fun on the golf course because my expectations were out of control.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

And I've been there too.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

And the inner critic was in full flight. Uh expectations and inner critic.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Dark night of the soul.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

My goodness, they go hand in hand, my friend.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

It's a long drive home when you're when you're in the car going, What why do I spend hours of my life doing this? Right. What's the point? Actually, I think I've called you a few times on those drives homes. Oh, yeah. Like, Jesse, you gotta reinspire my love of the game for me.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, there's I mean, in a perfect world, at least from my perspective, I would like to work hard and and go out and practice hard and really have uh the dreams of of playing, you know, high-level amateur golf. And um, but the perspective that if it doesn't happen on a day-to-day proposition, that that's part of the game. That truly is part of the game. And continue uh each round as a chapter and looking at each chapter objectively and the things that I did well and the things that I can work on so that next time I can continue to stack the deck in my favor. You know, I mean, I don't think that people are gonna demonize a math a math problem. You're gonna try to go back to the basics and try to figure out where the error happened. And then when you get the error, you go, oh, okay. Typically it's a simple, it's very simple. Um, but I do think that the way that we speak to ourselves and that inner critic uh is is um, you know, it can give life or it can take it. And uh, you know, we're you know, we go out if you think about the ridiculous of the the rigged ridiculousness of this, Alex, is like you and I are both members of private clubs. We spend a uh a stupid amount of money to go out and play golf with our friends. We spend, you know, three to six hours out there on the regular. And let's make the most of it. Let's have it be a joyful exercise versus uh you know uh uh you know being in the military type thing, you know, not not deep.

SPEAKER_03 50:37

That gets back to my comment at the beginning of being a golf lover means seeing the game as more than just recreation and hobbies, seeing right as a uh like I said for me, it's it's a safe container to work on myself.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

I get to I love I love when I have an experiment I want to try, and I can think of a way to bring that experiment onto the golf course.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Or if there's a new practice I want to experiment with, a new type of uh a new sort of um like meditation that that I'm really excited to see, okay, can I apply this in real life? Well, the first place to try it is on the golf course because it's low stakes, right? Like, okay, if if it doesn't work on the golf course, then then I just save myself a bunch of frustration trying to make it work in real life. And if it works exceptionally well on the golf course, then man, I'm I get really excited to go to work the next day and try it, you know, when I'm sitting in the chair across from a client.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Wow. That is absolutely well said. Safe container. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

And since the golf course And then and then uh I don't feel so bad leaving my wife behind for six hours. Honey, I'm working on myself.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, but I and I also think that you know you that's such a great point, and being out on the golf course is instant manifestation for sure. Boy, your thoughts will manifest quickly uh out on the golf course. Um in real life, it it tends to be delayed, thankfully. Um, but at least on the golf course, if you say don't, it's typically gonna happen. Um but Alex, this has been quite a quite a conversation.

Closing And Working With Alex

SPEAKER_00 52:20

And um and it's my wish and hope to have this conversation ongoing with you, my friend, on this podcast. Uh, because I I think that um the information that you've provided in our our conversation is really gonna plant a lot of really positive and powerful seeds in people's minds that listen to this, and that's the intention of this 100%. Um, yeah, you know, we're all going through it and we're all human and we're all at some stage in our journey. And I think these are important tenets to talk about and discuss. So thank you for your expertise, your education, and your contribution to the world, my friend. It's very important.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Thanks, Jesse. Yeah, so it's quite enjoyable. I love talking to you.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

And we will continue. And I want you to come back on, pal.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Come on, give me a couple of I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Awesome, awesome. Well, Alex, I can't thank you enough. And uh, and to the listeners, uh, Alex has graciously uh given the the green light to um put his information on, and uh and he's available to be worked worked with one-on-one. Do you work uh in person and on Zoom, Alex?

SPEAKER_03 53:32

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Awesome. Thank you for uh for your service to humankind, my friend.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Thank you for uh creating this podcast. I know uh I I get excited every time an episode drops. So um, and I always learn so much from the guests you bring on, and you're wonderful hosts and a wonderful friend.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Thank you, brother. Right back at you.